What you are about to embark on is a journey of a lifetime. You will experience the ups and downs of what it is like to leave the religious affiliation you were brought up with, lose many friends, and the severing of family ties. Then, on to experiencing the ultimate victory when one heeds the calling of God, namely, spiritual rest and freedom. As my title indicates, there are a particular group of gentlemen that played a significant role in my conversion: The Fathers of the Church. The richness of their writings overwhelmed me many times (and still does!). When one encounters the Fathers, you are brought into a spiritual (human as well) dimension that just carries you away. Sit back, and enjoy the journey!

Growing Up Baptist

My religious beginnings began on Long Island, New York. I was raised as a Conservative Baptist (CBA), and we had a wonderful pastor; Pastor Bob Williamson at the First Baptist Church of Central Islip, New York. During those years, I was growing up as a kid during the time of Vatican II, although then I had no idea what it was, nor had I ever heard of it. Our community of Central Islip was predominately Irish-Roman Catholic. Pastor Bob had great relations with the Catholics of our community, and the priests at St. John of God parish respected him as well. Little did I know the effect that Pastor Bob would have on my life. I recall “asking Jesus to come into my heart” at the age of seven, and I even remember playing baseball for the CYO (Catholic Youth Organization) league as a teenager.
While a teen living on Long Island, I was very involved with our Church. I was in the youth group, sung in the choir, and spent three summers on foreign mission trips. I spent three summers with Teen Missions International, Inc. out of Merritt Island, Florida. I went to El Salvador in 1974, Mexico in 1976, and Africa in 1978. During this time of my life, being anything other than Baptist, never crossed my mind and I must add, that never once did I hear an ill word spoken about the Catholic Church by anyone, while living in New York.
At the age of sixteen, my family and I moved to Alabama. When first arriving there, my family joined a Southern Baptist church, and it was then that I was baptized. During my years in Alabama, I attended a private Christian school for two years, then graduated. Since the school was associated with an Independent Baptist church, it was my family’s beginnings with Fundamentalist Baptists. The sermons there were that “hell fire and brimstone” type; much damnation, and not much love.
I remember seeing the notches made on the pulpit, from the preacher striking the pulpit many times while preaching those sermons. Although I can appreciate the sincerity behind the message, I believe that that kind of delivery is ineffective. It may scare someone at that particular moment, but the lasting effects are primarily nil. How can people remain devoted to the faith when all they hear is a steady diet of “sledgehammer” preaching. I call it “sledgehammer” because of the continual “pounding” of guilt, that these types of sermons place upon its listeners.
Most of the people that are Independent Baptist are good people, and they love the Lord dearly, but, there are those who feel that if you are not Baptist, then you are going straight to hell. After all, some of them say that they can prove that Jesus Christ was a “Baptist!” They even said that they can prove it from Scripture, but I have yet to see it. During this time, my dad felt the calling of God to be an ordained Baptist minister, and he later accepted the call to be director of To Israel With Love, Inc., a Christian outreach ministry to the Jewish people.
After graduation, I went the wild way. The next three and a half years were ones filled with much about the world, and nothing about God. Then in 1982, I married my high school sweetheart, Gina. Her Dad was an Independent Baptist preacher too (Now he is Southern Baptist). For the next four years, Gina and myself led a life that was far from God. We went to church occasionally, but we were not serious about our faith. In June 1984, the Lord blessed us with our first daughter, Alicia Brooke.
In 1986, Gina, Alicia, and I moved to South Carolina, where Gina’s parents lived, so we attended the Southern Baptist Church that her dad pastored. Almost every Saturday morning while living in South Carolina, I would go to the local Christian bookstore and spend loads of money. Books and music, and more books and music; that was my life (I used the C.S. Lewis quotation Pastor Bob told me as the “OK” for being a book fanatic, “Let a man’s only vice be books”)! I even acquired many anti-Catholic titles such as Boettner’s Roman Catholicism, Coffey’s Once A Catholic, and some Jack Chick publications to boot. I purchased these for my own library, not for the purpose of attaining ammunition to blast any Catholics in sight, as I do not recollect ever having an anti-Catholic spirit in my heart. Remember, I was never brought up to see anything anti-Christian in the Catholic faith.
I used to work at a textile plant in Spartanburg, and I worked the night shift. Every night at lunch time (If you could call it lunch), I would retreat to the quiet atmosphere of the warehouse and listen to Charles Stanley while devouring my food. I kept pen and paper handy to record the snippets of spiritual food I would hear, as Dr. Stanley’s messages played a vital role in my spiritual development during my time in South Carolina. Dr. Stanley is past-president of the Southern Baptist Convention, and is presently senior pastor of the First Baptist Church in Atlanta Georgia, and can be seen\heard on the In Touch television\radio program nationwide. Even today, I’ll find myself watching Dr. Stanley on television, and although I would not agree with him on some doctrines, it brings back some good memories. One thing I can say about his style of preaching was that he backed it up with love and sincerity, something I considered refreshing for my battered soul.

II - Saved Again?

I recall going to a good ‘ole Baptist campmeeting with our Church, and listening to the preacher say that your spiritual birthday was just as important as your physical birthday. So much so, that if you could not remember your spiritual birthday, you must not be saved! Fear struck my heart when I heard those very words. As a kid, I remember asking Jesus into my heart, but I just did not remember the exact time and date (for some people, these elements are essential for salvation), therefore, I must not be saved! I even gave my testimony the next evening at the campmeeting.
Here we go again, I asked Jesus to come into my life, and you guessed it, I was baptized again. I remember calling my folks to tell them the “good news,” “Hey mom and dad, guess what, I got saved last night!” There was a few moments of silence, and then I said, “What do you think about that?” Mom responded, “That’s good.” At that moment, I became very confused. I thought, “What in the world is going on with this being saved thing?” Little did I know that my mom was in contact with Pastor Bob concerning the situation.
To make a long story short, I had a talk a few years later with Pastor Bob, and he told me that that particular preacher may have been putting a guilt trip on me, and don’t forget, he remembered me growing up as a kid on Long Island, so he knew me well. It is amazing how your emotions can play games with your mind. As a result, I rejected that whole campmeeting episode as an initial salvation experience. That was some lesson. My in-law’s were astonished at my decision to reject that experience. This was the beginnings of being rejected by family, and although I rejected that experience, it did prove to jump start my seemingly dead heart.
Even though we had some rough times with Gina’s parents, our spiritual lives were in the process of making a complete turn around. We started listening to contemporary Christian music and were introduced to the music of Keith Green. His lyrics seemed to spark a fire in our “dead wood” souls! Our time in South Carolina (two and a half years) was one of spiritual renewal. Something that we were in need of, to say the least!
Then, one Saturday while at the Christian bookstore, one of the workers in the music department asked me if I had ever heard of John Michael Talbot, I said “no, who is he?” They knew that I liked guitar music, so they thought that I would be interested in his style of music. Man, were they ever right!! Not only did his music touch me, but so did his message. Never had I heard the words of Scripture sound like this. I soon found out that John Michael Talbot was a Franciscan monk, but that did not matter to me. It turned out to be the first spiritual encounter that I had ever had with a Catholic, and his style and message overcame any questions that arose concerning his religious affiliation. I guess you could say that I turned into a JMT fanatic, which in turn made me a more serious Christian. That was important to me.
During this time, Gina was riding on my coat-tails, listening to John Michael Talbot and especially Michael Card. These guys made such a tremendous impact on our lives. Now I have almost every book and recording of John Michael Talbot, and Gina maintains a healthy collection of Michael Card items. Maybe there’s something to be said for those named “Michael?”

III - Time Well Spent at a
Protestant College

Then, at the age of 28, I “felt the call to preach.” That meant moving the family to Georgia so I could attend Toccoa Falls College and prepare myself for the pulpit. While conversing by letter with my good buddy Pastor Bob (after a 12 year absence), he told me that I had a keen mind, and that I ought to have a degree or two. The move there was definitely an experience. Although the move was only one hundred miles away, we never had so much trouble in our lives!
On the way to Toccoa, our little Toyota quit and Gina had to pull me with our pickup the last few miles. I remember pounding on the hood of that car, and calling it every name in the book! Then the shocker; the mobile home movers could not put our trailer in the space reserved for us! Our space was at the bottom of a steep dirt road, and the movers said that they would not be able to control the trailer due to its weight. So, here we are: one broken down car and a mobile home without a home sitting together on the side of the road. At the moment, we were devastated, but as time would tell, the people of the college helped us get situated into our original space within three days. I have to admit I asked myself, “Was this what God wanted for our lives?” At that moment, I really wondered!
My initial major was pastoral ministries. Later in school, I had this urgency to teach and not pastor a church, so my major changed to Biblical studies. While living in Toccoa, we were on a search for a church that would make us feel like home. This search brought us to many, many churches: our church on campus (Christian and Missionary Alliance), Southern Baptist, Methodist, and we even thought of the Church of the Nazarene. But we were not happy with the churches we encountered.

IV - Martin Luther?

I recall the first class I took at Toccoa Fall College; Western Thought and Culture. It was a winterim (two weeks) course on the things that shaped Western thought and society, focusing on religion. As part of the course, we watched the film series, How Should We Then Live? based on the book by Dr. Francis A. Schaeffer, a noted Reformed scholar. “Reformed” in the traditions of Calvin and Presbyterianism.
This series gripped my mind and soul as nothing had before! In the part that covered the Protestant Reformation, a brief clip of the black and white film, Martin Luther was shown, and I remember how I became transfixed by this man. I saw in him a strong sense of courage, one that wanted to make things right within his Church. I saw in him a picture of myself (ask my wife Gina!). A man who would tell others exactly what he believed without apology. He was brash, witty, sarcastic, temperamental, and loving all in one! With those qualities I thought, what a guy! Looking back as a Catholic, I guess he took things a little too far. Even so, Luther did something to me that no other human had done: instilled in me an insatiable thirst for the study of God, particularly, Church history.
Give me a book or an article on the Reformation, and I was set! I lived and breathed as an aspiring scholar of the Reformation, with men like Zwingli, Calvin, Melancthon, Wycliff, Hus, Simons, and Knox. You name it, and I went after it hook, line and sinker! I wanted God to work in my life, just as He did in the lives of these men. Every time the opportunity arose to do a research paper for a class, I wanted it to somehow tie in with the Reformation. Frankly, Luther and the Reformation period were my life!
It was not long after that we ended up joining Trinity Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod) in Toccoa, Georgia. This Church is pastored by Rev. Greg Walton, and would you believe that his wife Edie and I grew up together in Pastor Bob’s Church on Long Island? It’s a small world!
I guess the impact made on me concerning Luther and the Reformation made me wonder why we were not living out our faith as the one who began the Reformation did. During my first year at Toccoa Falls, church history was beginning to make a thunderous impact on my mind. These days were only the beginnings of what was to come! When we became Lutheran, we were greeted by much animosity, especially from Gina’s side of the family. I only knew of one other student (out of approx. 950) who was a Lutheran at Toccoa Falls College. It only stands to reason, since the school was affiliated with the Christian and Missionary Alliance. I should also note that I took a course entitled Historical Theology, and it was in that class that I had become exposed to the Fathers of the Church. Studying the writings of Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origen, Augustine, and Aquinas really started to wet my appetite for the beliefs of the Fathers. So, it seemed only logical that their views held some kind of weight.
I remember studying Irenaeus’ view on redemption called recapitulation. Simply put, Jesus Christ (The Second Adam) by becoming flesh, summed up or restored what the First Adam had ruined. In Against the Heresies III.18.1, Irenaeus battling against the Gnostics states,

For we have shown that the Son of God, who was always existent with the Father, did not begin to be then; for when he became incarnate and man, he summed up in himself the long roll of humanity, supplying us in a concise manner with salvation. So that what we lost in Adam, namely the being in the image and likeness of God, we might recover in Jesus Christ.1

At this point in my life, the Catholic Church was not in my sights, but the Fathers sure had me thinking.
Although Tertullian is seen as one who deviated in his theology, he made a statement that caught my attention, “Let me say once for all, no one seeks unless there is something he did not posses or something he has lost.”2 As I reflected on this, I wondered if this was me, and there was something I was missing.
The conversion story of St. Augustine was one that always intrigued me, especially the perserverance of his mother Monica. She prayed for his conversion for several years, and when he finally did, she said the following to him,

Son, as far as I am concerned, nothing in this life now gives me any pleasure. I do not know why I am still here, since I have no further hopes in this world. I did have one reason for wanting to live a little longer: to see you become a Catholic Christian before I died. God has lavished his gifts on me in that respect, for I know that you have even renounced earthly happiness to be his servant. So what am I doing here?3

This account given by Augustine’s mother Monica, for some reason, has always caused my soul to well up with joy. The dedication of Monica is extraordinary!
Those hours of research and study began the days of living in a kind of “religious isolation,” as I seemed to be the only one going in this theological direction. It was also during this period that Luther especially intrigued me to no end, and I stuffed myself with books about his life and thinking.
The move to the Lutheran Church was hard for Gina, especially the doctrine of infant baptism. We learned and grappled together with many things of our “new found” faith, but there was much pressure coming from family alone. When Gina’s parents got wind of our move to Lutheranism, they really flipped out. “How could you do that?” they said, when we were brought up with the “true” doctrine. During our time at Trinity Lutheran Church, a prominent Lutheran theologian named Richard John Neuhaus converted to the Roman Catholic Church. I remember teasing my pastor while going out the door after Sunday morning worship, “You better watch out, I might pull a Richard John Neuhaus on you!” Little did I know just how much those words would ring true! Some may disagree with this, but I truly felt as though Luther never intended for the Church to fracture as it did. This was vital to my “conversion” thinking.
One interesting time of development in my theological thinking were the “bull” sessions that I had with some of my fellow classmates on Saturday mornings. One guy was a Methodist pastor, one was a Baptist, one was Pentecostal, the others were Christian and Missionary Alliance, and then there was the Lutheran—me! At these meetings, we would hash out the “nasty” questions that concerned the doctrinal areas of our respective faiths. I remember being hounded for my belief in baptismal regeneration. As a Lutheran, this tenet was foundational for me, therefore I had to defend it. In general, my position as a Lutheran was being solidified during these times with my fellow brothers.
Before coming to Toccoa Falls College, all I remember hearing about the Church as an institution, was that it was (and is to many) the “local New Testament” Church. This idea of the “local independent church” being the “only true church” permeates their thinking to the core. Everything revolves around this! For me, this brought on some serious problems. One simply was, what do we do with the Old Testament? Does it not have any relevance for the Church today? My theological thinking while at Toccoa Falls was becoming more and more Old Testament, and I do need to point out that it was not the aim of the school to be more Old Testament. I guess being exposed to the Old Testament at this magnitude was something that I had never experienced before.
It was at the end of my sophomore year (August 1990) at TFC that our second daughter Katy was born. (She was named Katharine Susannah after Katharine Luther, and Susannah Wesley. Her name shows our commitment to the history of the Church. Even today we honor those people after whom we named Katy. Leaving Protestantism did not mean that we had to jettison our foundation; we just built upon it. You might say, that our Christian foundational beliefs have been “purged by fire”?)
Soon after, and during my junior year, an insatiable thirst for the Roman Catholic Church was welling up inside of me. During a Winterim semester at school, I took a course entitled Roman Catholicism. The class presented the Catholic Church in such a way that I thought to myself, “What is so wrong with this?” My professor was very fair with Catholicism, and he even used Church writings for a text (The Teaching of Christ by Bishop Donald Weurl). Later, when I did become Catholic, this professor felt as though it was his fault for my conversion; I assured him that my thirst began before his class, although it was very enlightening. Dr. Evearitt presented Catholicism in such a way that the Catholic Church spoke for Herself.
Whenever I heard someone mention that Catholics were going to hell because they believed a “false gospel,” I would immediately think of John Michael Talbot’s music and say, “This is impossible!” This whole idea of Catholicism preaching a “false gospel” is today being forcefully asserted by people like John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, D. James Kennedy and John Ankerberg. They claim that the “false gospel” that St. Paul speaks about is precisely what the Catholic Church is following. Therefore, Roman Catholics are not going to make it to heaven. This whole issue can be seen on video available from John Ankerberg, or in his book, Protestants and Catholics: Do They Now Agree?. Eugene: Harvest House, 1995.
If the fruit of JMT’s ministry meant that this type leads one to hell, then Christianity was all messed up as far as I was concerned. So you see, at this point I saw a couple of important factors coming to an apex: Church history and the Fathers of the Church, and the lives of certain Catholics.
How could we throw away 1500 years of Church history, and why only from the Reformation onwards? Did not the Fathers of the Church account for anything? It seemed strange to me, that as a Protestant, we would only accept those words of the Fathers that would support our doctrines. What about the spiritual fruit that was being borne by some Catholics? Did the title “Catholic” make these fruits invalid? This seemed simply ludicrous to me, as I saw the richness from the writings of the Fathers as immeasurable! To be clear, when I say “Fathers” I am referring to those men of the Church from around the first century to the seventh or eighth centuries (depending upon their geographical location: Eastern Church or Western Church).
Without going into great detail, it may be helpful if I disclose to you the criteria that makes one to be declared a Father of the Church, they are: Antiquity, holiness of life, orthodoxy, and ecclesiastical approval.
Boniface Ramsey, O.P. makes a wonderful statement concerning one’s knowledge of the history of the Church and the Fathers,

To be familiar with the history of the Church makes a person able to do something that it has always been difficult for Christians to do, namely to distinguish accidentals from essentials. ... To know the Fathers, then, is to grasp the essentials of Christianity or, in other words, to be educated in the sensus catholicus, in the sense of what is truly Christian.4

There is definitely something to be said about Church history and the writings of the Fathers. While most of us think of them as “a phalanx of austere old gentlemen with beards and books,”5 they do offer us an outpouring of wealth for theological studies. Any serious student of theology would be foolish to disregard that fact.
As a side-note, there was a long period of about two years where Gina had absolutely zero contact with her mom and dad. This began as a result of our interest in Catholicism, and when we entered the Catholic Church, that did it! Technically, the division began when we became Lutheran. As far as they were concerned, we were all going to hell, and they told us that directly. They could not believe that we were taking our precious little girls down to hell with us! Therefore, they wanted no part of our family. The move to Catholicism was a painful one for Gina because she knew the separation it would cause, and yet, she also knew the spiritual peace she would receive by following the desires of her heart. Gina’s sisters followed in the same manner as her parents, and the phone conversations with them became nothing short of a shouting match.
To me, it was truly amazing to watch a family disintegrate over one’s efforts to follow Jesus Christ. Can you imagine that? These struggles solidified Gina’s faith like none other, and consequently, it strengthened our relationship together. I should also mention, that after these past years, Gina has again been in contact with her family. The talk of religion (Jesus Christ) is not there, but she is at least communicating with them. You know, I could understand their position if we were into some non-Christian religion, one that rejects the work of Jesus Christ, but we are not! We want nothing else but to follow in the footsteps of Christ Himself! (What I want to know is, what can be so wrong with that?)

V - Will the Real Catholic
Church Please Stand?

Usually, the people who have a problem with the Catholic Church are ones who do no research for themselves. They go by hearsay. The late Archbishop Fulton Sheen once wrote, “There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Roman Catholic Church; there are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church.”6 I guess if their preacher said it, that’s that, and nothing changes it. I truly believe that there are very few people who study Catholicism, and come away with an anti-Christian feeling about it. That is why I bought so many books on Catholicism; I wanted their own words, not the words of some guy who despises the Church because of something someone else said. I wanted to read solid, orthodox, traditional Catholic material, not the ones most anti-Catholics quote (Ones that the Church Herself condemns).
For some strange reason, when an anti-Catholic sees or hears of a particular “Catholic” who does something outside of what they consider Christian (i.e., Marian extremes and New Age practices), they automatically assume ALL Catholics indulge themselves in these practices. The above practices have never been sanctioned as official Church teaching at any time. If you do not think that the Church takes a stand and denounces the wrongdoing of her people, think about Bishop Bruskewitz of Lincoln Nebraska. On 19 March 1996, he declared that any Catholic who maintained membership with certain groups that are incompatible with Church teaching, will be excommunicated. “Any Catholics in and of the Diocese of Lincoln who attain or retain membership in any of the above listed organizations or groups after April 15, 1996, are by that very fact (ipso facto latae sententiae) under interdict and are absolutely forbidden to receive Holy Communion.”7 Groups listed were the following: Planned Parenthood; Society of Saint Pius X (Lefebvre Group); Hemlock Society; Call to Action; Call to Action Nebraska; Saint Michael the Archangel Chapel; Freemasons; Job’s Daughters; DeMolay; Eastern Star; Rainbow Girls; and Catholics for a Free Choice. I was really impressed to see this! When do you ever hear of any Church official on the parish level making these kinds of statements?
I truly believe that when you point your finger at a Catholic whom you consider to be anti-Christian, you have to remember that there are three fingers pointing back at yourself! Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Sound familiar? All I am saying is this: before you criticize and hurl accusations at the Catholic Church for anything, please research for yourself exactly what the Church teaches on that particular issue before you do. You might surprise yourself.
I remember the many Saturdays where Gina and I would go over to see Pastor Bob and his wife June for a little fellowship. They would tell us of their relationships with Catholics back in New York and how fond the memories were of them, particularly, Father Swiger from the local parish. Pastor Bob told us of his first encounter with Father Swiger at the post office one morning. While getting acquainted, Father Swiger said that he was burdened for the people of his parish. He went on to say that they are so caught up with externals, they do not see that Jesus Christ is so central to their faith. When Pastor Bob heard this, he said his heart became “knitted” to the heart of the young Father Swiger. When I heard it, my heart became closer to the Catholic faith.
All I had been hearing from my opponents was that the Catholic Church does not know Jesus Christ, and yet I am told of a priest who claims the opposite about his faith. It sounds to me like there are misinformed people around, people who know nothing of the real Catholic Church! I say real for one simple reason: many people see (thanks to the media) a false picture of the Catholic Church. Sure, there are extremes in which the way people live out their faith, but that does not make it the norm, nor the rule by which to judge Catholics. The funny thing about it is, there are people in every church who do not live their faith in the way that particular church ascribes it.
Words cannot begin to express the memories we have of those days spent with Pastor Bob and “Aunt” June. Their counsel was heavenly! They always had a way with words, and if you were in the valley, they brought you up to the mountain top in a fiery chariot! God bless people like them! Just think, they are not even Catholic! “Aunt” June passed away in September 1992. Although she did not physically see me graduate from Toccoa Falls College, I believe she did have the best seat in the house!
Another important event in my journey was a visit to a monastery in Conyers, Georgia (Spring 1992). The surroundings were so inviting, and my family could have stayed there forever! We went into the bookstore (you know I had to!), and I found some very interesting books. One in particular that made an impact on my life was Dr. Alan Schreck’s book, Catholic and Christian: An Explanation of Commonly Misunderstood Catholic Beliefs.8 Just the title captivated me, Catholic and Christian! You mean the two can go together? It sounded plausible to me.
Meanwhile through all this, Gina and I had been discussing the possibility of converting and we did much praying. We decided to attend a Catholic Mass one time, just to see what it was like. This was the first time that we had ever been to a Catholic Church—St. Mary’s Catholic Church in Toccoa, Georgia.
Although it was different and foreign to us, we went back again. We talked to the priest, Father William Calhoun, and we told him of our interest in the Church, so we enrolled in the R.C.I.A. class that started up in the Fall of 1992. We went into these classes with no real intention of joining the Church (especially Gina). I think her rigid religious upbringing made it difficult for her to make decisions, since “change” was something that was not looked upon as good.
Father Calhoun was quite a guy, a black priest in the South. You have to have lived in the South to really appreciate this! He was something else! Fr. Calhoun was the first Afro-American priest ordained in the Archdiocese of Atlanta, Georgia in 1963. His guidance during those R.C.I.A. classes helped us understand the Catholic position and cleared up some doubts for Gina. Father Calhoun gave us a solid, orthodox foundation upon which we built our Catholic beginnings, and for this we are truly grateful.
It was also at this time that we severed ties with the Lutheran Church. There was a sad element to our departure from Lutheranism, as we had forged a close relationship with Pastor Greg, his wife Edie, and their kids. Our relationship has never been the same since we left. Our departure was sad in the sense that we left behind some friends, but it was exciting in the sense that I believed that Luther himself would have been pleased. As I had mentioned earlier about Richard John Neuhaus, I do not believe that Luther intended for the Church to splinter like it did.
If you are not sitting down at the moment, you should get ready for this one! One night while preparing to start an R.C.I.A. class, I noticed that the chairs on which we were sitting looked very familiar. I thought, “Gee, these look like the same chairs we had at Pastor Bob’s Church in New York.” I then noticed a stack of these folding metal chairs lying against the wall, and I could not believe my eyes! On the bottom of the first chair in the stack it read, “First Baptist Church CI.” I quickly called Gina over, “Hey, can you believe this?” I exclaimed. Here we are, about 1,200 miles from New York, and I am in a Catholic Church sitting in chairs that used to belong to the Baptist Church I attended as a young boy. This was unbelievable! It took a long time to come down from that mountain (I still like to reminisce, and think back to that moment). As a parting graduation gift from the Ladies’ Guild of St.Mary’s Church, they presented me with one of those chairs with a red ribbon tied around it. It is a moment I will treasure forever!
In case you are wondering how St.Mary’s Catholic Church received these chairs, Pastor Greg Walton from Trinity Lutheran Church purchased some extra chairs from First Baptist Church Central Islip, New York (Remember, his wife Edie attended First Baptist C.I.). Then, when Trinity Lutheran had pews put in their Church, they in turn sold some of the chairs to St.Mary’s. Since I have been a member of all three of these Churches, I have often wondered if I were following the chairs, or if the chairs were following me!
Then, I was beginning my senior year, and the word was spreading of our attendance at a Roman Catholic Church. Now I really did it! Before as a Lutheran, there was at least one other on campus, but as a Catholic, I was the only one! Fellow students would come up to me and question my motives and reasoning for attending a Catholic Church. Most were cordial, while some were vehement. I recall one fella getting in my face and asking me why I was planning to attend a Catholic graduate school. I even remember one professor saying to me in chapel one morning, “Why would someone want to be under the bondage of Roman tradition?” I thought to myself, “bondage? This is true freedom!” The richness of Roman Catholic Tradition was something that overwhelmed me! I thought, “Man, I have almost 2,000 years of Tradition!” One professor even nicknamed me “The Priest.”
Another classmate and buddy of mine, Dana Camp, who was raised Catholic and was then an Assembly of God, used to question me often about my move toward Rome. “What is it,” he would ask me, “that was drawing me to the faith that he himself had left?” (His story is interesting as well, for he has now returned to the Catholic Church and has graduated from the same Catholic university that I attended). Dana was never “in my face” about it, but he could not understand, “Why the move?”
I bet those who worked in the post office on campus were wondering what all this Catholic mail was about (This Rock magazine, National Catholic Register, St.Anthony Messenger, Our Sunday Visitor newspaper, and New Covenant magazine to name a few). Who knows, maybe it made someone thirsty? During this time, I did much reading and study about Catholicism, as it was not just some quick jerky movement toward Rome. It was the culmination of countless hours of prayer, discussion (with Gina and others), study, and reading that led to our decision. I know some have said that this was some kind of spur of the moment decision, but they are wrong.
When it came to doctrinal issues in my conversion process, I was one who saw validity in a presupposition that had been around for centuries from the beginning of the Church, as opposed to one that was relatively new (i.e., dispensationalism and opposition to infant baptism). Dispensationalism was born in the 19th century (Darby), and infant baptism was not challenged until the time of the Reformation (hence, the Anabaptists). This was exactly how I viewed many Protestants. In other words, it seemed as though they were saying, if it was before the Reformation I do not want to hear about it! To me, that was 1500 years they were throwing out the window, and I saw it as foolishness. Who says that these “newfangled” views supersede the views of Tradition? That was always a curious question for me. Does not the vastness of time speak for itself?

VI - Let the Bible Speak for Itself

Catholic doctrines such as the sacraments, baptismal regeneration, Mary and the Saints, purgatory, and the Eucharist all proved themselves to be valid. Rather, it was the Protestant doctrines of sola Scriptura, eternal security (of one’s salvation), and justification by faith alone that could NOT prove themselves. When I asked some professors of mine at Toccoa Falls College, whether sola Scriptura was in the Bible, they told me it could not be found. Then when I read 2 Thess. 2:15, that ends that argument. (“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”)
When I read James concerning justification and works, he tells me that we are NOT justified by faith alone! Nowhere in the Greek text of Scripture can you find that we are justified by faith “alone!” Luther in his German text added the word “alone.” Justification is not a simple matter of believing at one moment and then that’s it for eternity. Throughout Scripture, justification is spoken of as a process (1 Cor.1:18; Matt. 10:22. It is the Greek verb used for “saved” that denotes this). I saw no problems with this view of justification and works, for I did not see it as “taking away” from Christ’s work on the cross, neither does it add to it! Most Protestants love to quote Ephesians 2:8-9, but they fail to go on to verse 10 (I wonder why?). Maybe it’s because it mentions that bad word . . . “works!”
For some reason, most Protestants get hung up on the issue of justification by faith, as they see “our works” as adding to Christ’s work on the cross. They get hung up on the mediation of Mary, whereas the Catholic Church teaches that, although Mary does serve in a special mediational role, it is subordinate to that of her Son Jesus. Just as a mother today would take on a “suffering” role when one of her own offspring is suffering, why could we not say the same for Christ’s own Mother? There have been many mediators throughout Scripture, and yet they do not complain about those (i.e., Moses and the prophets). Most Protestants have a problem with Tradition, when in some sense, they have many of their own traditions (1 Thess.2:15). Are not some of the very things Protestants do considered to be Tradition (i.e., order of the service)? The very charges they make against the Catholic Church (they say from Scripture) on these issues, the Church is able to use Scripture as a defense for Her beliefs. Sounds crazy, no?
I recall when taking my comprehensive oral exam at the beginning of my senior year at TFC, one of my professors said, “Gee Dave, most guys that come up for their orals are New Testament in their thinking, but you are very Old Testament in yours.” I took this as a personal affirmation to my expression of faith, and little did my professors at Toccoa Falls College know that they were very instrumental in my movement toward Catholicism.
While preparing for our future beyond Toccoa Falls College, I had applied to Franciscan University in Steubenville, Ohio, to complete the M.A. Theology program there. From their advertisements, they seemed to be traditional, orthodox, and faithful to the teachings of God and the Church. When we visited the campus the previous Summer, the fellow giving us a tour of the campus asked us, “Did we find out about Franciscan University via the teaching ministry of Scott Hahn?” I thought to myself, “Who in the world is this guy?” I had never heard of him. I soon had him as a professor in a couple of my classes, and quickly found out who he was! When I purchased Dr. Schreck’s book at the monastery, little did I know that I would attend the University where he was teaching. God does have a funny sense of humor!

VII - Ahhhhh, The Catholic Church!

Easter Vigil, 1993, Gina, our girls, and I entered into the Roman Catholic Church! I remember that for months I had been chomping at the bit so that I might receive the Holy Eucharist. I could not wait! What a sense of peace and relief in our hearts! We now felt as though we were part of a family rich in Tradition, and faithful to God. I mean, we knew that the Catholic Church was not perfect, but what other Church has withstood the test of time? Did this mean that I was “saved again?” No, but we were conditionally baptized, after consulting with Father Calhoun.
I want to say something about the idea of “being saved.” I recall listening to one of my professors at Toccoa Falls College, and he mentioned that salvation (conversion) was an ongoing past-present-future event. I could not agree more! I could write a book on this subject, but suffice to say that I concur wholeheartedly! Although we were baptized already according to the Trinitarian formula, we felt that since the two views (Baptist and Catholic) were miles apart in the effects of baptism, we wanted it done right. For my patron saint, I decided to choose St. Francis of Assisi, and for obvious reasons: First, I saw in the “Poor man of Assisi” a sincere longing for the things of God, and second, he was a patient and humble man (two qualities that I needed to emulate). I guess John Michael Talbot was the first to introduce me to the “Way of St. Francis.”
The aesthetics of the Church are captivating! The smell of the incense; the hearing of the music and the bells; the touch of the water in the holy water fonts and the consecrated Host; the taste of the Eucharist; and the seeing of the surroundings in the Church itself (statues, stained glass windows, and even the priestly vestments). All of this takes one on a tremendous worshipful experience, one that engages the totality of body and soul!
The intention of this writing is not to “wax theological,” but I do need to mention that the theology of the Eucharist played a vital role in our conversion. The words in John chapter 6 were enough for us! How can you logically argue with John 6? “Read the text, and let the text speak for itself” was what I was taught as a Protestant, and yet they most often fail to do just that! My Koine Greek minor also enabled me to do some great detective work. One thing in particular that I found in the Greek text was the play on words concerning the one’s used for our English word “eat.” In the John 6 passage, the Greek words faghte and trwgwn are used. Whereas the first Greek word has reference to “eating” in general (i.e., John 6:53), the latter expresses more of the actual “gnawing” or “chewing” of the food (i.e., John 6:54).9 For me, this does something to the context of the passage. As happens so many times in our English language, we sometimes miss the real meaning of a word when it is translated from the original to the vernacular.
Not to mention that as Catholics, there is a humble attitude that accompanies one (at least there should be) gets up from the pew, and goes forward to receive the precious Body and Blood of Christ. This is something where I saw most Protestants being lax (rather lazy) during their celebration of communion. Having to physically get up, and go forward to receive the consecrated elements of this sacrament meant a lot to us. I figured that Christ gave Himself for us, so the least we could do is to go up to receive Him. It’s that simple!
When it came time to leave Toccoa for Steubenville, our hearts were saddened that we had to leave our “first love” in our Catholic parish family, St.Mary’s Catholic Church. We have a special place in our hearts for Father Calhoun and the people of St.Mary’s. What an impression they made!

VIII - The Franciscan University Years

As if our move to Toccoa was not trial enough, our move to Steubenville was, let’s just say “trial by fire.” After graduation, we packed up and left for Steubenville on 17 June 1993. We arrived in Steubenville on the morning of 19 June, and the tears began to fall. The upstairs duplex that we had rented was unbelievable! It was in a terrible section of town; there was trash all in the inside of the house; the bathroom was indescribably dirty; the refrigerator was broken and there was no way I would be able to get all our things up the narrow flight of stairs. I moved a couple of small things into the house, went into the back of the truck, sat down and began to cry as I thought to myself, “Have I done this to my family again?” I began to wonder if I was really following the leading of the Spirit, or if these decisions were based on my own flimsy emotions. Basically, there was no way I was going to move my family into this place! I felt as though I had let my own family down.
The situation made it very easy to return to Toccoa, and forget all about Steubenville, but we knew that God wanted us at Franciscan U.. After spending the weekend in Steubenville looking for another place to live, nothing was to be found. I called my mom and dad, and they suggested that we take all our things to their house in Alabama, and store them there for a few weeks. This was a time to regroup and gather our spiritual direction. Thanks to my mom and dad for always being there for us when we were in a bind, for without them, life would have been much tougher!
A couple of weeks later, I traveled by myself up to Steubenville to secure a place of residence for us. Time was running out, and we firmly believed that God wanted us in Steubenville. I did find a house, and now the stage was set for move number two. In July 1993, we put our moving skills to work as we loaded the Ryder truck again and traveled to Steubenville (thanks to a friend who loaned us the money), and thanks to God, the move was a success!
I remember my first class, Theology of the Church with Dr. Schreck. My pulse was beating fast as I awaited his arrival, and then, there he was. I said to myself, “This is the man whose book I have been reading during my conversion.” I could not wait to tell him about it! I went to his office one day and explained to him just how instrumental his book was in my life. I even got him to write a little something inside the front of the book and sign it.
My first semester at Franciscan University was one to remember! Father Michael Scanlan and the faculty of Franciscan University have added more to my life then they will probably ever know! God moved me to purchase Dr. Schreck’s book for a reason. It instilled in me a viable way of living out my faith, one that Franciscan University cultivated in an unbelievable fashion. Professors Hahn, Miravalle, Schreck, Martin, Minto, and Fathers Giles and Dan added so much to my spirituality that I cannot begin to thank them enough!
While at Franciscan University, I should mention that the Liturgy of the Hours became (and continue to be) a vital part of my spiritual life (thanks to Dr. Schreck!). The readings are phenomenal! The richness of the Church Fathers, Church Councils, and others is truly a goldmine! When one immerses him or herself in the Liturgy of the Hours, they soon find themselves enveloped in God’s graces. The words are powerful, and they feed the soul like none other! I also should add that, when one reads (rather prays) the Liturgy of the Hours, one is filled with an abundance of Scripture. You mean Catholics read Scripture? Yep! Although some Catholics do not have a good grasp of Scripture, they are encouraged by the Church to read and pray over it (cf. Vatican II document: Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, Dei Verbum). Those who make the Liturgy of the Hours a part of their lives read more Scripture in one day than most Protestants hear in a month of Sundays. I say that not to belittle Protestants and their Bible reading regimes, but rather, to show that some Catholics do indeed immerse themselves in the words of God!
As I look back on my experience at Franciscan University, I remember the professors I had and the “little” things they did that impressed my young Catholic heart! Father Giles and the way he would lead us in the Our Father, his voice would just flow! Dr. Schreck, opening each class with a snippet from the Office of the Readings; Dr. Martin, placing his pocket crucifix on the podium at the beginning of each lecture (I have one on my desk at work); Dr. Hahn, asking us to stand and face the crucifix when we pray (I ask my students to do the same); Prof. Minto, being humble enough to admit that I had him on the mood (optative) of a specific Greek word (He gave me a Kudos bar the next day); The humble spirit of Father Dan; Dr. Miravalle, wearing his Marian medal faithfully over the top of his collar, and instilling in my heart, an unquenchable thirst for Marian studies. These things probably seem insignificant to most people, but the impression they made on me was (and still is) immeasurable!
On Sunday, 6 November 1994, my family and I went to a debate between Dave Hunt (a Protestant lecturer) and Karl Keating (the founder of the Catholic lay apologetics organization Catholic Answers) in Warren, Michigan. The topic of the debate was What was Early Christianity, so from the title, you could probably guess how the debate went. Even before the auditorium doors opened, there were Catholics and non-Catholics debating out in the lobby over our differences. Dave Hunt said something that night that I will never forget, and it went like this: Polycarp (who was a disciple of the Apostle John) for example, can know no more about Jesus Christ and the Church, than we can today.
I find this statement to be stunning to say the least. How can we say that someone as close to the living witness of Jesus Christ, one who was taught by the Beloved St. John himself, cannot have a better grasp on the Early Church than us? Surely, Polycarp would have an excellent sense of what was going on in the Church back then. I truly cannot see otherwise! Just because someone is “saved” and has the Holy Spirit residing inside, does not mean that he is an isolated, one-man theological know-it-all who has no need of spiritual guidance by those who have wisdom and insight into the things of Christ!
I also remember some good friends, especially Steve Labrozzi. This Italian guy was (and is) the most humble person I had ever met! His life is filled with the love of Jesus Christ, and his true devotion to the Church and Mary is unsurpassed! On many occasions, Steve would come over to our place and his presence alone made us feel as though a saint had been present in our midst. Steve is just another example of one who is living out the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. Encountering people like Steve Labrozzi, John Michael Talbot, Father Calhoun, and my professors from Franciscan University make it hard for me to believe that people like them are going to hell. Unthinkable!

XI - On To Pennsylvania

Soon after graduating from Franciscan University, I accepted a high school teaching position in Camp Hill, Pennsylvania. Before accepting this position, I had already interviewed in the Diocese of Toledo, OH. and they were waiting for my response to their offer. After accepting the Camp Hill position, the (Arch)Dioceses of Boston, MA., Ft. Wayne-South Bend, IN., and Altoona-Johnstown, PA. contacted me as well. Even the Diocese of Harrisburg called me about two other positions (after I accepted the Camp Hill opening)!
I will never forget how on the morning of 31 May 1995, at the moment I finished praying the Rosary, I received a phone call from the Principal (Sr. Francine), asking me if I would be interested in an interview. That is what I call Divine Providence, and that is where we are today. I should also mention that this experience bolstered my faith in praying the Rosary. Mary does hear our prayers! By the way, our move to Harrisburg went extremely well! God knew that we could not handle three in a row.
My first year at Trinity Catholic High School is gone, and when I look back, I simply cannot believe the path that God has taken us down! Though Gina and I have experienced much opposition to our conversion, I can honestly say that we have never be happier when it comes to the things of God! Not only are we closer to God, but we are closer to each other!
I am still in contact with some of my former classmates, who accept me as their brother in Christ, especially Bob Day (a Southern Baptist), who though he may disagree with some of my Catholic beliefs, he has no doubts about my faith. My former pastor from Long Island, Pastor Bob Williamson (also a Baptist) also keeps in close contact with me, and we share many things together concerning our beliefs. He just recently spent some time with us, and we attended a Catholic Answers seminar together. It was great! Then there are those whose friendships we have lost in the past, due to our move toward Rome. Although we are saddened by the losses, the joys and peace found in Catholicism outweigh the losses tremendously!
Since the beginning of our journey, many crucial events have taken place. In particular, while we were visiting Gina’s mom and dad in Georgia during Christmas 1996, her dad asked if he could come along with us to Mass since he had never been before. Without hesitation, we told him “no problem, join us!” What was about to take place that evening totally took us by surprise.
In preparation for this Mass, Gina and I were praying that an excellent homily would be given, so that her dad could hear first hand that the Catholic Church does indeed preach Jesus Christ. As we entered Our Lady of Lourdes Church in Port Wentworth, Georgia, we were a little nervous, wondering what her dad was thinking, wondering if we were going to be lambasted for being Catholic.
During the Mass, Gina’s dad watched and listened attentively. Looking at every move the priest made and carefully listening to the homily he was giving. Out of the corner of my eye, I was watching him for any kind of reaction. When he made the sign of the cross at the beginning of the Mass, I almost fell off my pew! As a good Southern Baptist preacher, he was even saying “amen” during the homily. I truly thought to myself, could this be the work of the Holy Spirit, working in the heart of Gina’s dad? I could not believe it.
After the Mass he shook the hand of the priest and told him that he enjoyed the homily as we made our way to go home. Once in the car, I was a little reluctant to hear what he might say about our visit, but were we ever surprised. The first words out of his mouth were words of apology, asking us to forgive him for the things that he had said in the past about our Catholic faith. He said he had no idea that the Catholic Church worshipped in a way that was even remotely similar to his Baptist heritage. Heck, he was surprised to find out that we even had deacons! All he thought we did was go around “chanting and speaking French” (I think he means Latin).
To hear him say that his eyes were opened to a real Catholic Church experience was no doubt music to our hearts! I believe that the Holy Spirit had removed the scales from his eyes and enabled him to see first-hand the sincere, reverent, and worshipful style that we are a part of. He did admit to us (and this is crucial) that all he knew about the Catholic Church was what he had been told (so much for hearsay!). This experience was truly a “religious experience” for Gina and I, as it was a healing time for the wounds of the past. That was one evening we will never forget!
In conclusion, I have placed before you a situation that is becoming commonplace today. While some would say that many are leaving the Catholic Church, others would say that many are coming into the Catholic Church.10 Many Protestants are not finding within their own denominations a church that has been built on a solid foundation. Notably, Richard John Neuhaus, Thomas Howard, Scott Hahn, and John Michael Talbot to name a few. They do see a church that seems very distant from the Church the Fathers spoke about. When I visit or see the average Protestant service, I do not feel or see the connection that is supposed to be there. They have done exactly what I have said; namely, thrown out over fifteen hundred years of Church history! Most Protestants are also missing out on the awesome relationship one can have with the Mary of Scripture. She is truly Our Mother!
When you piece it all together and look at the total picture (Old and New Testaments of Scripture, Tradition, and Church history), one cannot help coming away with what we have found; The True Church of Jesus Christ! No other church lives up to the grandeur, majesty and awe of the Catholic Church!
After reflecting on what I have written, and if you are a person who has some serious problems with the Catholic Church, I challenge you to let down the barriers between yourself and Catholicism, and prayerfully ask the Spirit to open your heart and fill you with grace. If you will be honest with yourself, and prayerfully accept this challenge, you may find out the same things we did; namely peace and satisfaction through the work of Jesus Christ and His Church. Read and study for yourself, and visit a Catholic parish. Who knows, you may say that the Fathers of the Church led you home! Amen +

“Without God’s Son, nothing could exist. Without Mary’s Son, nothing could be redeemed.”
St. Anselm