Can one join the Catholic Church and keep an onging connection to former Protestant congregation?

[dobrodoc]

Dear Jeff;

i am a little late to the party but my point blank answer is no!

Not because the Catholic Church does't allow it, but because you will be rejected by your former church. We never realized how much anti-Catholicism was out there until we crossed the tiber and the phone stopped ringing and friends we had for over ten years no longer hung out with us.

   The good news is that as you enter the Church, the beauty joy and seduction of Catholicism will take you in and you will no longer find much reason to be involved at the other Church. At some point you may find yourself even being avoidant of it once the beauty of Catholic Mass, and the sacraments start to change you!

Quite frankly when I have gone back to the other church for special events etc (my brother is assoc pastor there) I find it very difficult to rmrmber how and why I ever felt comfortable there. At that point I realized that I was finally CAtholic! But it is a process and as Rick says' "Your mileage may vary."

God bless you on the journey

www.crossed-the-tiber.blogspot.com

[heardclarke]

Hello--I just wanted to say that I had a similar problem. My husband works at an Episcopal church and we have had close ties there for 15 years. I am, in fact, the child of an Episcopal priest. My husband is the choir director so I also understand about loving the great music in that tradition.

I was confirmed Catholic two years ago and still sing in my husband's choir. I go to communion at the Episcopal church and receive a blessing (before being confirmed Catholic, I would have done this at the Catholic church.) This is not easy, since the clergy at his church all know what I did, and the pastor has questioned my husband more than once about why I joined the RC Church. He always says, "You should talk to her about it--it was a lengthy and complicated decision for her." But the pastor has never tried to talk to me. The business manager also commented that it was a good thing my husband hadn't done what I did; he didn't think he'd be able to keep his job if he were a Catholic.

My father (I'd call him an Anglo-Catholic) has been understanding, but like several others on this board, I have found that some friendships were cooled or could not survive after I made my beliefs known. Luckily I teach in a Catholic school, so I have no lack of supportive friends. This helps when other people accuse the Church of being judgemental, misogynist, intolerant, or idolatrous (as many Episcopalians say it is.) "How can you possibly BELIEVE all that stuff?" or "Never thought you'd do something like THAT" are typical comments.

So, although I really intend to demonstrate support for my husband (who has been very supportive to me) by continuing to participate in the music for 6 hours every week, I am usually discouraged by negative feedback. A couple of old friends have engaged in true dialogue with me, but I really don't think you can grow as a Catholic and still feel comfortable in a Protestant church. The hardest part for me is during the Episcopalian eucharist (or a confirmation): not because I still wish to partake, but because I know it is not "the real thing" and they all think it is perfectly sufficient. The sacraments are not something I like to see watered down.

If I had known how I would feel by now about the Episcopal church and how hard it would be to keep going, I might have been scared; but I want you to know also that I have found a rich fellowship with other Catholics that is more than enough to get me through these difficulties. My family has accepted it as well as can be expected and those friends I really counted on from before have also.

I hope this has been of some help. Keep praying and looking for answers!

Lisa

 

[heardclarke]

PS:  When I said I "go to communion" I didn't mean that I receive the bread and wine at the Episcopal church. I know that's a no-no! I just meant that I don't stay in the pew while the others around bme are getting up; I follow them and receive a blessing.

Just wanted to make that clear!;)

Lisa

[GoFisher]

Hi Lisa.  I think all Christians (including Catholics) should take  RCIA periodically to refresh their memories about what The Church  really teaches.

Episcopalians can join The Catholic Church without attending RCIA  because The Church presumes that Anglicans are only a few steps (Papal  authority, Eucharist, male heterosexual celibate priests) short of  being Catholic.  Anglicans can go to confession if they choose to  do so.  As you know from your past of using the King James  Version of The Bible, and your differences between low and high  churches within the Anglican stream, that is not true.  There are alot more differences than that.

I've known of gay Episcopal priests including some who conducted a  ceremony for two men.  One of the current U.S. Episcopal bishops  is openly gay.  Unfortunately, this issue was on the ballot at the  Methodist General Conference in Y2K and a third of the room walked out  to protest folks who wanted to vote against the liberal (anti-biblical)  policy.  That is part of why I left UMC.  Church members  should not be allowed to VOTE on what they think their translation of  The Bible means.

During RCIA, I learned from a priest that joining a non-Catholic church  after being Catholic consitutes heresy, and if someone went to  confession for that, the priest would have to contact the bishop for  permission to grant absolution of it.

While I was in RCIA, my mom said, why don't you go to an episcopal  church since they are 90% catholic.  Well, my thought was then,  why be 90% catholic when you can be 100% catholic!

A so-called friend of mine was tapped by one of my former pastors to  drill me about my Catholic studies, try to refute them, and also try to  prevent my confirmation.  She refused my invitations to attend the  inquiry meetings, and still refuses to attend the ECUMENICAL prayer  meeting I attend. 

I have found that it is difficult to be "ecumenical" when you are still  in the process of becoming Catholic (which RCIA leaders say takes five  years).  Both "sides" hurt my feelings by complaining about each  other and not understanding each other.  Also there is a lack of  logic with anti-catholics who do not remember that The Catholic Church  came first and was the only church for 1500 or so years, so that  Scripture and Tradition compiled by Catholics must be the accurate  ones, since it is anti-Catholics who changed their versions to go with  their new doctrines.

Sorry I'm on my soapbox, but I have also been wondering why The Lord  would want me to be Catholic and not in my other churches.  So, I  obeyed His Call and will find out later why.

[GoFisher]

In my first year of studying Catholic Theology, when I was attending a  protestant women's Bible study.  Everyone was stumped when I gave  Catholic answers to the questions of a woman who had not yet decided to  even become Christian.  I think her question was about becoming  holy, and I mentioned going to confession and receiving  absolution. 

My last former anti-Catholic pastor got mad at me for going to  confession, and acted as if I were crazy for doing so.  Well, that  is not true, of course.  AND the good news is that I am actually  holier this year than I was when I began this process.

One priest told me how difficult it is to evangelize in an ecumenical  setting due to the differences in The Church.  When you share The  Truth, why would you send new believers to an anti-Catholic ecclesial  body?  Ecclesial body is the catechism definition of non-Catholic  Christian churches because the term THE CHURCH can only mean the entire  body of The Catholic Church, or the INVISIBLE church meaning all  believers.  I think I remember that correctly. 

Check out this cool three-inch thick book:  The Companion to The  Catec of the Cath Ch; it is the compilation of documents cited in the  CCC.  

St. Bp. Irenaeus, pray for us!  He is the Father of Orthodoxy  (orthodox doctrine) who refuted gnostics in his work, Against Heresy.

[CajunRick]

Episcopalians can join The Catholic Church without attending RCIA  because The Church presumes that Anglicans are only a few steps (Papal  authority, Eucharist, male heterosexual celibate priests) short of  being Catholic.

In the interest of accuracy, the Church does not require any validly baptized Christian to participate in RCIA.  Some dioceses or parishes may require them to attend the same classes, but they are still not technically part of RCIA since they are already partly initiated.

Anglicans can go to confession if they choose to do so.

Again in the interest of accuracy, only Catholics can normally receive sacramental absolution from a Catholic priest.  Members of the Orthodox faith may also receive absolution under certain circumstances.  Any other baptized Christian may receive absolution only with consent of the bishop.  For example, a candidate for full communion with the Catholic Church can receive sacramental absolution prior to being admitted to the Church, being confirmed/chrismated, and receiving Eucharist.

[GoFisher]

Episcopalians  can join The Catholic Church without attending RCIA because The Church  presumes that Anglicans are only a few steps (Papal authority,  Eucharist, male heterosexual celibate priests) short of being Catholic.

In the interest of accuracy, the Church does not require any validly  baptized Christian to participate in RCIA.  Some dioceses or  parishes may require them to attend the same classes, but they are  still not technically part of RCIA since they are already partly  initiated. 

HI RICK!!!  In the latest RCIA brochures and hand-outs, and by my  experience in two dioceses:  baptized Christians who are not  Episcopalian are required to take RCIA before doing Rite of Election  and Confirmation in The Catholic Church.  This was true for me,  even though I had studied on my own (with weekly question time with my  priest) for a year, and I had attended The Catholic Church for many  years in my teen years.  Also, I was using an example of one  episcopalian who got confirmed at my church in December all by himself  without being in RCIA. 

Anglicans can go to confession if they choose to do so.

Rick, I WAS REFERRING TO ANGLICANS GOING TO AN ANGLICAN/episcpln PRIEST, not a Catholic priest.


Again in the interest of accuracy, only Catholics can normally receive  sacramental absolution from a Catholic priest.  Members of the  Orthodox faith may also receive absolution under certain  circumstances.  Any other baptized Christian may receive  absolution only with consent of the bishop.  For example, a  candidate for full communion with the Catholic Church can receive  sacramental absolution prior to being admitted to the Church, being  confirmed/chrismated, and receiving Eucharist.

[JasPax]

GoFisher wrote, "Episcopalians can come into the Catholic Church without attending RCIA." That must depends on the diocese. I was an Episcopalian for 40 years and my wife for more that 50. We went through the whole RCIA process and I am glad we did.

When I tell people that I came from the Episcopal Church they invaribly say (esp. Cradle Catholics), "You didn't have to come very far."

I disagree. On the surface there are many similarities, esp. in the "Anglo-Catholic" parish we came from, but go down an inch and there is a world of difference. Anglicans are really protestant (albeit liberal) in most of their theology and there is a considerable amount of anti-catholic bias. Of course, being Episcopalians, they are much more genteel in their comments. (smiling). They like to refer to Catholics as RC's. (They, {Anglicans} invented the term Roman Catholic.) That's why I only say, I am Catholic.

I'll say this: I attended years of Bible classes, forums, etc. in the Episcopal Church. (And sometimes in Baptist Churches I visited). For a time I was an adult class leader.  I have a greater understanding of the Bible since being Catholic than in all those prior years. Now, it all fits together in ways it it never did before.

So, attending another service (protestant)? I guess there are circumstances which make it necessary for some. I can't imagine doing it myself. I found my home!

God's Great Blessings!

[CajunRick]

Episcopalians can join The Catholic Church without attending RCIA because The Church presumes that Anglicans are only a few steps (Papal authority, Eucharist, male heterosexual celibate priests) short of being Catholic.

In the interest of accuracy, the Church does not require any validly baptized Christian to participate in RCIA.  Some dioceses or parishes may require them to attend the same classes, but they are still not technically part of RCIA since they are already partly initiated. 

HI RICK!!!  In the latest RCIA brochures and hand-outs, and by my experience in two dioceses:  baptized Christians who are not Episcopalian are required to take RCIA before doing Rite of Election and Confirmation in The Catholic Church.  This was true for me, even though I had studied on my own (with weekly question time with my priest) for a year, and I had attended The Catholic Church for many years in my teen years.  Also, I was using an example of one episcopalian who got confirmed at my church in December all by himself without being in RCIA. 

As I said, it is often required in certain dioceses, and most are required to attend the same classes; however, the "Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults" is intended only for the unbaptized.  Those who are partly initiated by being baptized in other Christian faiths take part in a "Call to Continuing Conversion" and are considered "Candidates for Full Communion". 

Each Rite within RCIA has a corresponding ceremony for the previously baptized; catechumens take part in a Rite of Acceptance; candidates for full communion in the Rite of Welcome.  Catechumens participate in the Rite of Election; candidates in the Call to Continuing Conversion.  In my experience, this separation is seldom conducted as the Fathers of Vatican II envisioned, and I understand that it may be written in brochures and handouts, but that doesn't change the rules.  RCIA calls for a clear distinction to be made between catechumens and candidates that many parishes and even dioceses do not implement properly, but again, that does not change the rules.

Candidates are to be evaluated individually and those who's beliefs are close to the Catholic faith (such as high-church Anglicans) require a minimum of instruction.  Others who are far from Catholic in their beliefs require correspondingly more instruction.

Anglicans can go to confession if they choose to do so.

Again in the interest of accuracy, only Catholics can normally receive sacramental absolution from a Catholic priest.  Members of the Orthodox faith may also receive absolution under certain circumstances.  Any other baptized Christian may receive absolution only with consent of the bishop.  For example, a candidate for full communion with the Catholic Church can receive sacramental absolution prior to being admitted to the Church, being confirmed/chrismated, and receiving Eucharist.

Rick, I WAS REFERRING TO ANGLICANS GOING TO AN ANGLICAN/episcpln PRIEST, not a Catholic priest.

I understood that, but I wanted to make sure it was clear to anyone else who might be reading this thread.

[heardclarke]

Dear JasPax,

I completely agree that the differences look small at first and then you realize later how great they are. This is partly because the liturgy looks and sounds the same at first. Being involved behind the scenes reveals a lot.

I remember wanting to start a chapter of NOEL  (National Episcopalins for Life) many years ago when we first started at our Dallas parish. My husband  advised against it: "That would be very controversial," he explained. I learned that a good spouse has to "get along" with everybody as a matter of course.

I went to the pastor later after we had 2 kids and said that since there was a shortage of quality preschool spaces in Dallas, and they were really pricey, maybe we should start a program at our parish. As a Montessori teacher, I offered to set up a classroom within the year. There were several rooms sitting empty during the week. He seemed to like the idea but later said the vestry didn't want it. One vestry member suggested that if we wanted our kids in private school, we should talk to their grandparents; "That's what they're for."

I had a growing sense that the church was basically concerned with raising money, fellowship and theology "lite" for the teens and adults. Needing money for the school we did choose, I got a teaching job in the Catholic diocese. Suddenly I was surrounded by people who were seriously concerned with children, education, and faithfulness. I realized that I hadn't even known what I was missing.

I think most cradle Catholics don't even realize that the mainstream Episcopal church has, for decades, embraced tolerance instead of ethics, charisma instead of challenge, and novelty instead of tradition. As a result, I would argue that your average Episcopalian needs RCIA even more than a Baptist (who can at least be expected to know his Bible!)

I have easily dumbfounded my fellow Catholics by describing seminary professors who want to admit dolphins to Communion, a divorced gay bishop who lives openly with his partner, and a woman Presiding Bishop who takes it for granted that birth control is the choice of an educated person who cares for the Earth and a woman's right to abortion must never be questioned. I could go on and on, but you have probably heard all this before....

Suffice it to say it is a wild world out there and I am SO GLAD to finally be home.

Lisa

[sewnsew]

Not only have Episcopalians wandered away from their once very Catholic outlook on life and matters of faith but have have become very anti Catholic. I regret bitterly that until I left the Episcopal church i didn't realize  how far the average Episcopalian belief is from the ones I grew up with ie the blessed Virgin, thoughts on communion even proper respect in "Gods own Home"  When I read the books for first communion that my children learned from I protested only to be told that I was too inflexible. I ended up teaching my kids at home much of what I felt was theologically important. Unfortunately I thought that enrolling our kids in Catholic high school ( our son needed special ed services so we couldn't put them in Catholic grade school) would help to counter the Evangelical wrongheadedness. However I didn't realize that  on Sundays and at youth group people were dedicated to  "correcting any Catholic thinking" as well as AT SCHOOL one of our fellow parishioners who was a year older than our son corralled him everyday to  "debunk him" of whatever had been taught that day in Theology classes. My son doesn't communicate well and so until our daughter started I was clueless.  I am now trying to correct all that with patience and tact since he is taking my conversion very personally as an insult against our old church and the congregation.

[heardclarke]

Yes, I know what you mean about the kids being taught too little or vague information about the faith. There is a trend in some Protestant churches of allowing very young children to receive Communion with no formal teaching beforehand. I went to the young children's chapel  at my husband's church with my kids and saw this. One little boy put the  wafer in his pocket for later. Others were playing on the floor with their friends and paying no attention to what was happening around them. The parents were mostly at another liturgy or in a class; there were just a handful of adults.

Since the EC doesn't teach that the bread and wine are substantially changed in the sacrament, it is no big deal to them if a few kids don't understand what it is. (One wonders whether their parents understand it since they don't feel it's important to take communion as a family.) That's why I sometimes call it the "Easy Church" instead of the Episcopal Church. It isn't the one I remember any more!

Lisa

[GoFisher]

I find it sad to be criticized by members of my previous churches (including Epis. and others).

Also, I learned that in 1930, Episcopals became the first church group  to deny what everyone then called the evils of contraception.

One bible verse says, "avoid the appearance of evil".  RCIA  priests told our group that we should avoid the appearance of everthing  being "okay" and "equal" between The Catholic Church and their  ecclesial body, since that is the appearance given when a Catholic  attends a non-Catholic church.  

It used to be a mortal sin to do that.  My mother's Catholic best  friend had to do a huge penance for serving as her maid of honor in my  mom's non-Catholic wedding (pre-Vatican II).

The Lord told me to leave a protestant/anti-catholic worship service I  was attending before the "elements" of communion got to my row.  I  presume that was so I would not be partaking of fake stuff.  At  the start of my studying Catholic theology, when a Catholic suggested  that I might become an Episcopal priest, I felt a check in my spirit  (God saying NO). 

If you want a priestly blessing, just receive the one you get at the  end of every Catholic Mass, after the priest says, "bow you heads and  pray for God's blessing" and then he prays one.  I want to  remember to ask for one from The Lord during Communion, and whenever I  pass The Blessed Sacrament in a Tabernacle.

Well, I went on a tangent so much that now I forgot to what else I was going to respond.

I still struggle with wondering why The Lord told me to become  Catholic, and wonder what is wrong with my favorite church.  Then,  I see a vision of things wrong, and right:  "one baptism for the  forgiveness of sins" is in the Nicene Creed, but my previous church  re-baptizes folks in a tub by immersion who were already baptized as  babies.  Also: Communion is a big issue, and I remember the big  green trash bags being used to collect the little plastic cups used for  grape juice.  SO, I MADE IT THROUGH ONE YEAR SO FAR.  RCIA  leader says it takes FIVE years to get used to being Catholic.

BLESS YOU EVERYONE!  Go for The Truth.

[Br_Carlo]

God's peace.  GoFisher said: "RCIA leader says it takes FIVE years to get used to being Catholic."

I dunno about that one--I've been Catholic for three years this June and to me my earlier, fist-shaking Protestant life is like a bad dream after morning coffee.  Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~

[psalm23.6a]

I am confident I would  not have the hostile response some of you speak of - indeed I have even illuded to my thoughts on the subject to some.  My church and friends are very open-minded from a theology standpoint.

 I suspect there reaction would be confusion primarily but they would largely respect my answer. The deeper hurt would occur if I completely abandon them and the church which I am so much involved in. As I said in my initial question, it is a very historic and small church in which every active member has to help out.

My concern,as I first expressed, is on the other side i.e. my welcome from a priest and new Catholic friends if I maintain any type of tie to my protestant church.