the main thing

[David W. Emery]

I see what MG was saying, but if anything, anti-Catholic teaching LED me to the Church.

It sometimes works out this way. Of course, my comment was really about bad Catholics, but I appreciate your sentiment on anti-Catholics. I had kind of the same reaction to it: some Christian love I was shown!

Even now it seems hacking apart incorrupt bodies for relics smells faintly of witchcraft, even now there are things that seem so wrong.

Strangely, this practice goes all the way back to the early centuries of Christianity. There are texts from the second, third and fourth centuries that mention it. But I agree with you that “love is not wrong,” and I believe the Holy Spirit is the fire in your heart. That’s where it’s at with me, too.

Sorry I am so long-winded! I have been holding it in for four years.

It’s good that you have a chance to spit it all out here. Soon you will be free of toxins and feeling much better. Peace to you, too, Trish.

David

[brian]

Nice reference to M*A*S*H There is a lot I like about that show. It just has such a unique vibe to it. And they do represent the Fr. somewhat respectfully and at times heroic and tough and accepting and loving.
I know exactly what you mean about the anti-Catholic thing. Although it actually worked on me for a while. I was someone taught trickes on how to evangelize Catholic type people. I had a negative bias against the Church for sure. How I hate that when I was in Mata and saw some old churches all I could think was how unnecessary the beautiful stuff was and how Paul must have been upset to see how Catholic the churches he started became. Now how I wish I could go back to those Cathedrals and just stare and pray.
The point is thay I bought in to a lot of it. Then eventually a friend of mine converted. I thought he was crazy. I tried to reason with him and ended up not making a dent. It was still years later, but once my hatred toward the Church softened I started to think 'well, at least some Catholics must be saved, they do afterall believe in Jesus' and evnetually saying 'there is a lot about Catholicism I like, I think I would like to think of myself as an honorary Catholic for a day and go to Ash wednesday' The thing is, the more I saw its truth and beauty the more all the negative things I grew up thinknig turned me more toward the church. Still, it was difficult to actually make the final leap as I had a lot of fear that I was joiing some sort of church that worshipped saints and had the gospel wrong. But in the end the anti-catholciism did its damage, but made me see that there must be something misunderstood.
It may have been Chesterton or Neumann who said that few people hate the church. They hate what they think is the church.

Anyway, I am enjoying your thought processing thing. Hope all goes well in the coming months.

Brian

[lapsedConvert]

Thanks Brian,  and thank you all!  Today I looked up mg57's links about Elizabeth Leseuer.  I was totally convicted (that's Protestantese for "my conscience was bothered)  by the fact that I have let all the arguments between my husband and I make my heart cold.  I just sort of get along as best I can,  I don't really listen to him or love him,  and that instead of making this pain a wedge between us I should offer it up.  This is a turning point for me,  a major thing,  so I went to a nearby parish to confess (my Father is on retreat) The priest seemed annoyed (I went to him after the service along with another sinner.  And the poor guys are overscheduled with the shortage) that I needed his help but tried to be pleasant and I told him my husband and I had been fighting because I want to convert and he said "You're not even Catholic?!?!"  and he told me I should try to take RCIA and "if you don't like it you can always quit..." but not to join the Church if it would cause a problem between my husband and I,  but sure,  I should work on my relationship with him.  I closed my eyes and bowed my head and he quickly crossed me and said. "Bless you.  Bye."  When I confess at my parish Father has me make an act of contrition and he touches my head and says most of the absolution prayer,  except the "I absolve you" part.  Did I do something wrong?  I don't feel forgiven.  Now,  if I really believe the Catholic stuff I must trust that Jesus worked through the sacrement even if the priest found me annoying and didn't see why anyone would undergo conflict to join the particular church that he happens to work for.  But,  part of the whole reason God gives us sacrements is because seeing and feeling and hearing and emotions are all part of our experience of Him-we are not just disembodied spirits.  So,  would it be wrong to confess this again since I didn't receive absolution or any type of specific blessing?  I don't want to make more work for Father or express doubt that Jesus really works through any validly ordained priest or dis the priest who saw me.  He could've said no and he didn't do anything expressly unkind to me.  Further, my current priest,  who is an empathetic confessor,  will eventually be assigned to some other parish.  Would it be OK at that time, to confess at other parishes until I find a priest I have more of a rapport with or do I need to be obedient to God and confess to whoever is assigned at my parish?  Protestants are famous for "shopping around"  and I don't want to do that,  but I don't take spiritual direction lightly and am careful who I trust with such an important role.  It is one of the things that lead me to the Faith.

[Dave Armstrong]

A warm welcome, Trish. I was away over the weekend, and so just saw your post now (I usually take the weekend off anyway!). As you see, the people here are wonderfully supportive and loving. It's truly genuine and sincere and heartfelt. I know, because I am reading posts all the time as a moderator.

I'm so happy that you are being encouraged by their outpouring of concern. I hope you stay! You're among friends. I tend to do more of the theology and apologetics, myself (as you can see by my "official title"). If you have some questions about the faith, I and others will do our best to try to provide some solid, plausible answers for you.

In the meantime, you'll find plenty of personal support and encouragement from folks who can empathize with the situation you are in right now.

Helpers Rick and David know a lot more than I do about the fine points of a matter like a Protestant confessing to a priest, so I'll defer to them, as to your recent questions.

God bless you.

[CajunRick]

secular counselors wouldn't even get why we think this is a big deal.

You might be surprised.  Differences of faith are a major source of marital discord.  A secular counselor worth his/her salt will attempt to find areas of agreement and areas in which you can agree to disagree, and suggest compromises on whatever is left.  For example, he might suggest you attending church with him one weekend, and him with you the next.

However, if I were you, I would insist on a counselor you can question before, to assure he/she will not take a particular faith perspective. 

[lapsedConvert]

Thanks David Armstrong,  and thanks CajunRick.

 For example, he might suggest you attending church with him one weekend, and him with you the next.

However, if I were you, I would insist on a counselor you can question before, to assure he/she will not take a particular faith perspective. 

   

    I would hope someone can help us find a compromise,  and I usually go to vigil Sat. and attend with him Sunday morning anyway.  The difficulty is that as a Catholic I would have to go each week with or without him to fulfill my weekly obligation and all the churches either of us have ever belonged  to believe the husband is at least figuratively the head of the house and explain their collar-free environment with "The husband is the priest of the home."  Since misconceptions about Catholicism abound,  if my defection were made known it would reflect badly on him,  like that I deceived him with my slick words or that he didn't care properly for the welfare of my soul etc. etc.  It is hard to explain to those whose faith background doesn't compell them to distrust all things secular.  (I don't mean to make it sound like the Branch Davidians,  it's just that there is an idea that if the Christian worldview is different than the non-Christian ethos,  contrary conclusions are bound to be reached.) If I become Catholic it is likely he too will suffer.  I don't want to bring disunity to my home and the Hahn's book really struck a cord about how betrayed the non-converting spouse feels.  But I appreciate your encouragement.  Perhaps if I ask him to choose the secular counselor.....

Thanks guys.  You guys are the balm.  Literally.

[David W. Emery]

Trish, the priests you have talked with are doing everything according to the rules. I can see you want to do the same. Here are some things you need to know about confessing your sins:

1. It’s perfectly all right for you to confess your sins or discuss a personal problem in the confessional, so long as the priest understands that you are not Catholic. And yes, you can go to any priest you wish, no limit. Finding a confessor that you are comfortable with is very important. You need not fear “shopping around.” I must say, however, that so long as the priest you usually see now is available, you should stick with him because he is the one who understands you best and the one you are comfortable with.

2. No, you did not do anything wrong with this latest priest, and he did not do anything wrong, either. The Church’s codified law, called Canon Law, is what governs these things. It contains a number of specific measures about confession of non-Catholics but does not limit how a priest may resolve a given case so long as he adheres to a few simple rules, so the priest’s behavior may vary. What this priest did was what he saw as appropriate, just as what the other priest did was what he saw as appropriate. If there are personal differences, both are within the bounds of the law.

3. If you feel the need, you can discuss your situation with another priest or indeed with anyone you think can help. But as to “confessing” the same thing again, I would advise you against it.

You are not going to be given absolution regardless of which priest hears your confession, because that isn’t possible. But this does not mean you are not forgiven. Because you are not Catholic, God does not expect you to confess to a Catholic priest to receive forgiveness for your sins. God forgives much more freely than that because he is not bound by the sacraments he has ordained for Catholics. He can forgive anyone in any way he wants just because he is God.

If you were Catholic, you would be told that confessing the same sin over again because you did not “feel right” about how your situation was handled (regardless of whether it was you or the priest that made you uncomfortable), even though you received absolution and performed your prescribed penance, is not advisable because it can indicate (a) scrupulosity or (b) a reliance on feelings instead of faith as regards the efficacy of the sacraments. The first is an unfortunate psychological condition which can only cause trouble and pain. The second is a wrong-headed approach to religion; as I think you already know, “feel-good” Christianity is not true Christianity.

As I see your sincere repentance and your longing to be joined to Christ in the best possible way, I am convinced that God has heard the prayer of your heart and has forgiven you whatever sins you may have committed. At this point I would urge you to try to remedy your difficulties with your husband. Reconciliation and forgiveness are high on the list of ways a person can expiate the damage his sins inflict.

Once again, Trish, I bid you peace through the passion of Christ.

David

[tedjenczewski]

Someone ought to talk to the  bishop about what that preist at Notre Dame is preaching. It sounds like he is preaching a huge heresy and should be prevented from ministering to the faithful. He needs an extended period  away from his duties to devote himself to prayer and reflection to discern the truth..

[Steven Barrett]

 Lapsed Catholic, you've been put through a hell of a lousy wringer and my heart goes out to you. I've felt awfully lonely on many a night before I came to know this Forum and joined up. Far better minds than mine are belong to the Forum and hold tight to their encouragement, wisdom and trust in their prayers.

God is watching you and protecting you with all His Angels.

Prayerfully,

Steven

[setapart]

 Lapsed Catholic, you've been put through a hell of a lousy wringer and my heart goes out to you. I've felt awfully lonely on many a night before I came to know this Forum and joined up. Far better minds than mine are belong to the Forum and hold tight to their encouragement, wisdom and trust in their prayers.

God is watching you and protecting you with all His Angels.

Prayerfully,

Steven

Amen! Here is a relevant Scripture verse that applies to the fellowship experienced here in th forum:

1Jn 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

God Bless,

Bill

[lapsedConvert]

Thanks guys!  The change in my demeanor in just this one week I've been chatting with you all has been amazing.  Even my husband has noticed.  It's bad enough when your loved ones think you're nuts but when you wonder yourself sometimes... and I can bear anything if I think I am obeying God,  but before I had others to fellowship with and clarify things I wasn't sure.  My prayer life suffered.  Also,  when I try to express some of my confusion and frustration to my cradle friends I just sound belligerent.  Thank God for this forum!  I pray for you all too.  God bless!

[Steven Barrett]

Who cares what your relatives think about you going crazy when you're feeling this good and have the BEST reason on earth to feel this way. Besides, in the words of a very lapsed, but talented Catholic, Jimmy Buffett,

"It's alright to be crazy, ... don't let drive you nuts!"

And that includes your family, which is A LOT Bigger and Older!

Steven

[CajunRick]

It's bad enough when your loved ones think you're nuts but when you wonder yourself sometimes...

My family has always known I'm nuts, and conversion has nothing to do with it!  In fact, as I write, my daughter is trying to convince me (by IM) not to send a clown bearing balloons to her work place for her 30th birthday. Of course, for months she has hidden her work phone number and address from me, only calls me from her cell phone, etc.  She knows her daddy!  And the people my daughter works with are the ones who set up a 30-foot tall dinosaur for the boss's 50th birthday, so it wouldn't exactly upset the decorum of the workplace!  And both my wife and daughter forbid me from singing along with the happy birthday crew at restaurants.  How sad is that?

My point is that our families love us, but often question our actions and motives on so many things just because we don't behave the way they would like us to.  When it comes to faith, we must go where we find the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  We can only hope and pray they will join us on our journey.

[lapsedConvert]

My family has always known I'm nuts, and conversion has nothing to do with it!

   

You sound like one of my kind!  And yes,  I always say I am a religious nut-  without Jesus I would be just a regular nut! :  )

  I heard a nasty rumor that if I join the Church,  since I was married in a Protestant church I would have to have something done to my marriage to make it Catholic otherwise the hubby and I would have to live together as brother and sister.  Is this true?  Because I am not getting any younger and what kind of Catholic only has one kid?!?  You don't get one on every try! I asked Father once about 'legitimacy'  on behalf of a divorced friend and he said that the Church was the government of some countries in other centuries and legitimacy was an inheritance thing,  the Church does not consider any babies dirty, and any type of union shows intent so the children thereof are 'legitimate'.  I really hope my understanding of this issue is screwed up (pardon the pun)  because I used Christopher West's teaching about the Theology of the Body to explain sacrementalism to my very antagonistic  spouse and he totally got some.  I mean,  got it.  So, what's the deal?  Does anyone want to be a bridesmaid?  Is the Chicken Dance required at all Catholic wedding receptions, or is that just a coincidence?

[CajunRick]

I heard a nasty rumor that if I join the Church,  since I was married in a Protestant church I would have to have something done to my marriage to make it Catholic otherwise the hubby and I would have to live together as brother and sister.  Is this true?

If neither you nor your husband were married before, your marriage will almost certainly be recognized as valid by the Church and you won't have to do anything.  It's hard to generalize without knowing all the circumstances, so you really should talk to a priest to be certain, but as long as there are no impediments (under age, close relationships, prior marriages, duress, etc.), those who are not Catholic are not bound by the Church's marriage rules, so any legal marriage will be recognized.

Your user name (lapsedConvert) imples that at some point you might have joined the Church.  If you did, then the rules are different and you might need to renew your vows before a priest to have your marriage recognized by the Church.  But your posts seem to indicate you never actually became Catholic, so I don't think that's the case.

Is the Chicken Dance required at all Catholic wedding receptions, or is that just a coincidence?  

Yes, a Catholic marriage is not truly valid until the bride dances the Chicken Dance.  If the groom is too drunk to stand, his obligation to perform the Chicken Dance can be postponed until the first anniversary.:woohoo:  :nyahnyah:  :roflol: