the main thing

[lapsedConvert]

If neither you nor your husband were married before, your marriage will almost certainly be recognized as valid by the Church and you won't have to do anything.  It's hard to generalize ..., those who are not Catholic are not bound by the Church's marriage rules, so any legal marriage will be recognized.

Your user name (lapsedConvert) imples that at some point you might have joined the Church.  If you did, then the rules are different and you might need to renew your vows before a priest to have your marriage recognized by the Church.  But your posts seem to indicate you never actually became Catholic, so I don't think that's the case.

  Thanks Rick!  Sorry to confuse.  No,  I hadn't actually joined.  The year or so I was gone in an attempt to "bring religious unity to the family"  I felt orphaned.  I lamented I couldn't even say I was a lapsed Catholic.  What am I?  A lapsed convert?

   Our marriage was the first offense for both my husband and I,  and none of the conditions you mentioned apply.   That's encouraging.  So many Church teachings seem unfair and random if you don't get the logic.  I have a divorced friend who got divorced, married in another church,  then divorced that guy.  She feels the Church shouldn't deny her comunion since her husband left the marriage,  not her,  and if the last marriage wasn't recognized as legitimate anyway it was none of their business,  and why did they think it was invalid just because it was at another church?  I get her logic.  But from the Church's point of veiw,  if you are Catholic to begin with and you make a life commitment as serious as marriage elsewhere,  you are kind of saying "I don NEED no stinkin' Catholic Church",  so a little reconciliation might be in order to re-establish the communion.  Father says you may have communion if you are divorced,  but if you remarry in the Church, you must have an annulment,  otherwise the Church has married you to two people, and if you marry someone else somewhere else,  as far as the Church is concerned you are still married to husband A.   After all,  he said,  if you don't get a civil divorce and try to marry at the court house the state will consider you a bigamist.

  I am also relieved because my husband and I really suck at the Chicken dance. I would hate to be excommunicated so soon after joining.

[CajunRick]

Our marriage was the first offense for both my husband and I,  and none of the conditions you mentioned apply.

Then I see no reason why your marriage would not be accepted by the Church, but let me stress again that we don't have the ability to examine every detail.  But since it doesn't appear there are any problems with your marriage, it is likely it would be recognized.  By far the majority of those who join the Church (and who have not divorced and remarried) don't have any problem.

I am also relieved because my husband and I really suck at the Chicken dance. I would hate to be excommunicated so soon after joining.  

It's not an offense that draws excommunication.  In fact, you can substitute the spicy chicken and jambalaya at Popeye's (if you are not able to locate an authentic Cajun restaurant) instead.

[lapsedConvert]

Thanks Rick.  I'm more the creole type,  but I am all about healing the schism(s).

  Is it possible to change my screen name since I am (in no small part thanks to all assembled)  no longer lapsed?

[brian]

What good news to hear you say that 'not lapsed convert'. I hope things go smoothly. Try to be patient and remember anytihng good and forget anything bad you learned from us and let us know how the process is going. It is possible you may need to vent a few more times.

Brian

[GoodSoil]

Thanks Brian! I will definitely keep in touch,  I have just changed my name to GoodSoil.  (This is a hopeful intention,  I don't think I'm All That.)

[Truthseeker]

Dear Trish-

You have received so many responses, that I can't even read them all.  It is so wonderful, isn't it, to have so many people care about you here.  But, I may be adding nothing helpeful, as I may be simply repeating what others have posted.

First, I want to let you know that I know how you feel and am so honored that you are sacrificing so much for Someone I love.  You are blessing me with your struggle.

I too, am an outcast in my own home.  Not because my husband is a different religion, but because he has no religion.  I was hoping that the man that I loved would love the God that I was learning to love, but that has not been the case.  I understand that those who love Christ face persecution, yet find it so heartbreaking that my persecution comes from the one who's supposed to love me, in my own home.  Plus, because it's in here, instead of out there, I have no refuge from it.  You know?  My home is not a safe haven, where I recuperate from fending off the persecution of the "world".  I face the daunting task of "loving those who persecute me", when it's my own husband who hurts my feelings, ridicules my faith, and creates faith struggles for me EVERY DAY!

The Lord promises us peace, yet how can we find it when we are so hurt all the time?  How is marital conflict (brought on by love of God - of all things) supposed to help us find peace?  And how are we to feel peace, when we are so worried about losing our spouse's love and respect?

I am learning that the peace promised really is beyond man's understanding.  For me, after seven years of worshiping alone, plus a miscarriage of a child my husband did not want, the breakdown of my marriage that I will remain faithful to, breast cancer, a teen who is deeply immersed into the juvenile court system, extreme financial hardship, and losing my children's company at church, one at a time (all in the past three years), I am posting this response full of Christ's peace.  Sounds so strange.

I have glimpsed this peace, off and on, throughout the years, but am coming to realize that it is a peace between me and the Lord.  When I feel I am being an obedient, loving daughter to my Heavenly Father, who loves me so very much, I am at peace.

All the consequences of my conversion to Christ and then to His church (mainly marital strife, friends thinking I'm loony, etc.) are still here, but I have lost the fear of those consequences, and my yearning to please Holy God has finally become stronger than my fear of losing my worldy goods (husband, friends, respect, love, etc).  As I am typing this, I see that I am the rich young man who wanted to go to heaven by "doing the right things God wants" but without giving up the things that really mattered to me.  Maybe, because I am willing to forsake those things now, I am at peace, because I don't have to fight my own self, everytime I try to live for God.  I don't have to choose between God and my husband, God and my children, God and that person who's looking at me funny, because I won't condemn the "bum".

But it's taken me a long time to reach this peace.  I will pray that your struggle is not so long. 

God bless you.

Laura

[GoodSoil]

Thanks Laura!

  You are an inspiration.  I know that if you can endure all you have God will be faithful to me.  It is hard to bear "the fellowship of His suffering"  but knowing there are others who share that fellowship does give me strength.  It is beautiful that you have such peace,  that you have learned to 'let go'.  It is a daily thing,  isn't it?  Thank you for sharing with me,  you are like an older sister in this.  I am truly glad for the forum.  God bless you.

                                                                   -Tricia

[setapart]

Laura and Tricia,

I will be praying for you both tonight. As a third party to both of your situations words cannot really come into play in a general sort of way when the war is fought on the front lines in close combat right in the trenches. But with both of you sharing with each other, you are like sisters at arms fighting the good fight of faith shoulder to shoulder. This is how Nehemiah defended the City of Jerusalem as they were re-building the walls when the opposition became very intense. I believe that God has used this forum to bring you both together along with the other posters to help you hold your positions.


Now when Sanballat heard that we were building the wall, he was angry and greatly enraged, and he jeered at the Jews. And he said in the presence of his brothers and of the army of Samaria, "What are these feeble Jews doing? Will they restore it for themselves? Will they sacrifice? Will they finish up in a day? Will they revive the stones out of the heaps of rubbish, and burned ones at that?" Tobiah the Ammonite was beside him, and he said, "Yes, what they are building--if a fox goes up on it he will break down their stone wall!" Hear, O our God, for we are despised. Turn back their taunt on their own heads and give them up to be plundered in a land where they are captives. Do not cover their guilt, and let not their sin be blotted out from your sight, for they have provoked you to anger in the presence of the builders. So we built the wall. And all the wall was joined together to half its height, for the people had a mind to work. But when Sanballat and Tobiah and the Arabs and the Ammonites and the Ashdodites heard that the repairing of the walls of Jerusalem was going forward and that the breaches were beginning to be closed, they were very angry. And they all plotted together to come and fight against Jerusalem and to cause confusion in it. And we prayed to our God and set a guard as a protection against them day and night. In Judah it was said, "The strength of those who bear the burdens is failing. There is too much rubble. By ourselves we will not be able to rebuild the wall." And our enemies said, "They will not know or see till we come among them and kill them and stop the work." At that time the Jews who lived near them came from all directions and said to us ten times, "You must return to us." So in the lowest parts of the space behind the wall, in open places, I stationed the people by their clans, with their swords, their spears, and their bows. And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, "Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes." When our enemies heard that it was known to us and that God had frustrated their plan, we all returned to the wall, each to his work. From that day on, half of my servants worked on construction, and half held the spears, shields, bows, and coats of mail. And the leaders stood behind the whole house of Judah, who were building on the wall. Those who carried burdens were loaded in such a way that each labored on the work with one hand and held his weapon with the other. And each of the builders had his sword strapped at his side while he built. The man who sounded the trumpet was beside me. And I said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, "The work is great and widely spread, and we are separated on the wall, far from one another. In the place where you hear the sound of the trumpet, rally to us there. Our God will fight for us." So we labored at the work, and half of them held the spears from the break of dawn until the stars came out. I also said to the people at that time, "Let every man and his servant pass the night within Jerusalem, that they may be a guard for us by night and may labor by day." So neither I nor my brothers nor my servants nor the men of the guard who followed me, none of us took off our clothes; each kept his weapon at his right hand.
(Neh 4:1-23)

For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
(2Co 10:3-5)


I hope that these Scriptures bring you both some encouragement and I ask the Lord and all of His angels and Saints that He continues to provide you with the grace to persevere and continued peace in Him.

YBIC,

Bill

[GoodSoil]

Thanks Bill.  We will take those prayers.  And it was good you reminded us in scripture that we are not merely changing our outlook,  we are building a place for God to dwell.  God bless you

[Truthseeker]

Trish-

Spiritual loneliness is so difficult.  This forum is really a wonderful place.  It is always nice to know you're not alone, eh?

And thanks Bill, for including me in your response to Trish.  "God os faithful" sounds like such a cliche, when we are sufferring, but it is so true!

Love, Laura

[cyanheaven]

It's bad enough when your loved ones think you're nuts but when you wonder yourself sometimes...

My family has always known I'm nuts, and conversion has nothing to do with it!  In fact, as I write, my daughter is trying to convince me (by IM) not to send a clown bearing balloons to her work place for her 30th birthday. Of course, for months she has hidden her work phone number and address from me, only calls me from her cell phone, etc.  She knows her daddy!  And the people my daughter works with are the ones who set up a 30-foot tall dinosaur for the boss's 50th birthday, so it wouldn't exactly upset the decorum of the workplace!  And both my wife and daughter forbid me from singing along with the happy birthday crew at restaurants.  How sad is that?

My point is that our families love us, but often question our actions and motives on so many things just because we don't behave the way they would like us to.  When it comes to faith, we must go where we find the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  We can only hope and pray they will join us on our journey.

For a second there I thought I was reading about my own father.

I have a feeling after years of anticts you might deserve some of the reaction your getting in return, all in love of course!

[JasPax]

My family has always known I'm nuts, and conversion has nothing to do with it!

Don't worry Rick. That will pass because in a few years they can pass you off as a senile old fool. Then you can do whatever you want because they will assume that everyone else will understand and feel sympathy for them because thy must put up with you.

Regards,

P.S. I'm at that stage now. It's not bad!  :nyahnyah:


Edited to fix formatting

[GoodSoil]

OK Guys,  I have a question.

  So far my husband has agreed just to let me take RCIA.  Sister says if I take it and our marriage can't handle a conversion at Easter Father can get permission from the Bishop to confirm me at a later date.

   In the meantime,  I still go to church with my husband.  I do want some family unity and I do support his faith.  I attend vigil anyway,  so although our non-denom services are getting harder and harder to sit through,  I am free on Sunday,  and my dh hasn't been as anti-Cath as he would like.  At the church he (we) attend(s) the communion is separate so people can go and take communion as they are able during the singing,  since we are encouraged not to partake if there is a sin on our conscience or a situation where reconciliation with a br. or sr. needs to occur.  Nothing would prevent me from going to the communion area with my husband and standing with him while he takes communion if I did not partake.  Sr. sees this as "pretending".

    I don't want to make the Catholic Church my dirty little secret,  and I don't want to seem like her teaching is indefensable.  But when people get into it with us about this,  they really don't want to know what we believe or why.  Plus my husband and I attend a "male head of the house"  church (which has some female pastors.  Their husbands gave them permission to be pastors, I guess?).  I think the fewer fruitless emotional confrontations are involved,  the better.  Am I being prudent or am I being a wuss?

[Intercessor]

Trish, is your husband asking you to go forward with him when he partakes?
Or is it just your idea?

Becky

[GoodSoil]

Becky-

  It isn't forward,  it's backward.  Families or groups of friends if they happen to be sitting near each other get the elements from a tray and stand in little huddles at the back of the sanctuary and pray.  So far,  he hasn't asked one way or another since as far as he is concerned I am "just taking RCIA".  I will admit,  it is hard not to be antagonistic.  Last week it was my turn to pray and I said "Thank you Lord for this beautiful symbol of Your Body and Blood.  Please let me become Catholic so I can have the real thing."  My husband rolled his eyes.  He sort of treats my inclinations toward the Church as a fad I am going through (for four of the eight years we've been married!!)  and affectionately says things like "You're incourragable!" (when he isn't yelling at me for 'staring for hours at a picture of Mary' or 'worshiping a freakin' cracker.')  I don't see the harm in walking back there with him and standing quietly in our huddle while he prays.  He doesn't understand why it should be the real prescence, so he doesn't have full knowledge,  and if there is no consecration, then at that church  it really is just a symbol.  In view of that, I don't think he is sinning. In fact,  as long as I just partake of the symbol and don't revere it as a sacrement,  prior to coming into the Church I don't think I am sining.  I'll take what I can get.  The people in the OT puting lambs' blood on their doors were doing the best they could. If I were Catholic it would be wrong for me to take communion elsewhere,  but I don't know that standing in my family huddle would be wrong.  I don't know if participating as fully as I can with him is building family unity or wimping out.  When I go up for communion at mass with my arms crossed I am doing it so everyone won't have to crawl over me and I can at least look at the species or get a blessing from Father,  etc.  I don't think that is "passing myself off as Catholic",  but as not being disruptive.

   In the Catholic teachings there is a principle of "not causing scandal".  For ex,  if a non-Cath takes communion you should let the priest handle it and not confront them,  or at the very least talk to them later,  not go "NO! None for you!"  while you are passing out the Eucharist.  So how does that apply at my husbands'  church?  Would I be hiding my true identity or just not inviting a bunch of "concerned"  people to call my husband and harrang him about letting me wander off into "papist error".  I was a Protestant when he married me.  A big one.  That's what he liked about me.  A big argument with someone outside the marriage would be pointless.  Or would the lack of one be gutless?