Mary, my mother and the mother of all Christians

[Howard the Pilgrim]

Hi Folks,

I was tormented with fearful thoughts last night.  So I turned to Mary by looking up web images of Our Lady of Grace.  I love those paintings and statues.  Some of the statues are so lifelike they are amazing.  As I gazed upon her face and her hands extended towards us with rays of grace flowing from them, I was comforted and given peace.  Then I was able to go back to sleep.

Thank you, Jesus, for sharing your mother with us.  And thank you, Jesus, for the Catholic Church which emphasizes and preserves a physical understanding of the gospel for flesh and blood people like me.  Amen

Howard the Pilgram

[Estelle]

Howard, It's taken me decades to understand how much Mary loves us. But when you experience her love, protection and comfort there's no one who can shake that belief in her maternal heart.
In His arms,
Estelle

[Howard the Pilgrim]

Amen, Estelle.  She is very special to me.

[kingsvine]

I dont want to hurt anyone's feelings, but the first post on here on this topic totally disturbed me.  I wanted to run and not look back.  In fact, "freaked out" would be an appropriate description.

Luke 4:8
And Jesus answered and said to him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Ps. 62:1
My soul rests in God alone. My salvation is from him.

Ps 37:39
But the salvation of the righteous is from the LORD; He is their strength in time of trouble.

[Estelle]

Let's see if I can explain this. I'll give you some examples of how she's been my comfort.

Once I had to go for a biopsy. I thought I was only going for a sonogram. No one told me anything else until I got to the office. When the nurse explained the procedure and ended with the words, "It's not common but you could die of a heart attack on the table before you could be revived. HERE SIGN." I went numb. I'd never experienced an adrenaline rush before but I wanted nothing more than to bolt out of that room. It had been decades since I'd ever said the Memorare but it came back to me word perfect with no hesitations. (No doubt thanks to my long suffering guardian angel.)  As soon as the last word was said I felt as if a warm blanket had been placed over my shoulders. By the time the doctor entered the room I was able to laugh and joke with them. It took me weeks before I realized what had happened. At first I thought Mary had sent an angel to comfort me. Later on I realized she had come herself and the warmth I felt were her arms around me. She was standing between me and the devil who tried so hard to scare me to death.

Another time my husband and I had an argument  that flared up over dinner. He got up from the table and looked at me with such venom in his eyes! The next thing he did was walk out of the room but kept up the argument. It didn't occur to me until later that she had taken him out of the room so I wouldn't be subjected to the full force of the venom.

Once we were in the car. He was driving and the conversation was heading into dangerous waters. Once I would have just kept quiet but this time I wasn't going to be cowered AGAIN. I prayed for her protection, took a deep breath and stated my opinion calmly. You'd have to understand that stating my opinion in the past hasn't been the "safest" thing to do. But this time he just made one nasty comment and then dropped it.

I always like the way Father Corapi states it. If Mary is good enough for Jesus then she's good enough for me!

[Dave Armstrong]

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but the first post on here on this topic totally disturbed me.  I wanted to run and not look back.  In fact, "freaked out" would be an appropriate description.

I don't see why, since nothing whatever that Howard expressed is in the slightest disagreement with the Bible. He didn't say anything about Mary being the source of salvation (you merely superimposed that onto what he said); only that she is a vessel of grace, which is nothing more than what Paul says about himself and indeed about all believers (I believe I have shared several of those passages with you in the past and I'd be glad to cite them again if you wish). Every time we pray for someone else we are a vessel of grace. Your problem is the confusion of intercession and Mary's maternal role as mother of believers (hence Jesus called Mary John's mother from the cross), with some supposed identification of Mary in Catholicism as the source and origin of salvation. Only God is that: and this is what we teach.

Luke 4:8
And Jesus answered and said to him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Exactly. No one (i.e., who correctly understands orthodox Catholicism, and certainly not Howard) is worshiping Mary. Seeking comfort from her is completely different from worship. I've done it myself on several occasions. When I had one of the greatest stressful situations of my life a few years back, I asked Mary for her help and within a day I was at peace, even though the situation was not yet resolved (it was the next day, and I knew it would be).

It is precisely because Mary is Jesus' mother (and given extraordinary graces for that purpose) that her intercession is so powerful: more so than any other creature's. This is entirely biblical:

James 5:13-18 (RSV)

Is any one among you suffering? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing praise.
[14] Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
[15] and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
[16] Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.
[17] Eli'jah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth.
[18] Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit.

Ps. 62:1
My soul rests in God alone. My salvation is from him.

Exactly. Who said otherwise? What you overlook, however, is that God also channels the salvation that is from Him and His grace alone, through human vessels:

1 Corinthians 7:16 Wife, how do you know whether you will save your husband? Husband, how do you know whether you will save your wife?

1 Corinthians 9:22-23 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. [23] I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

1 Peter 3:1 Likewise you wives, be submissive to your husbands, so that some, though they do not obey the word, may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,

For more along these lines, see my paper:

Explicit Biblical Evidence of Men Helping to Save Themselves or Participating in Their Own Salvation (Which is Always Enabled by God's Grace)

Ps 37:39
But the salvation of the righteous is from the LORD; He is their strength in time of trouble.

Of course. See the above.

[Dave Armstrong]

Ps 37:39
But the salvation of the righteous is from the LORD; He is their strength in time of trouble.

kingsvine implies (with "either/or" reasoning and the bolded word) that only God can be a strength, and that this somehow precludes human beings participating in the strengthening other human beings in time of need. The Bible doesn't teach that. So, for example, we see the following:

Deuteronomy 3:28 But charge Joshua, and encourage and strengthen him; for he shall go over at the head of this people, and he shall put them in possession of the land which you shall see.' [God speaking to Moses]

1 Samuel 23:16 And Jonathan, Saul's son, rose, and went to David at Horesh, and strengthened his hand in God. (cf. 2 Chron 11:16-17)

Ecclesiastes 7:19 Wisdom gives strength to the wise man more than ten rulers that are in a city.

Daniel 11:1 And as for me [Daniel], in the first year of Darius the Mede, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him.

Luke 22:32 but I have prayed for you [Peter] that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.

Acts 14:22 [Paul and Barnabas] strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 15:32 And Judas and Silas, who were themselves prophets, exhorted the brethren with many words and strengthened them.

Acts 15:41 And he [Paul] went through Syria and Cili'cia, strengthening the churches.

Acts 16:4-5 As they [Paul and Timothy] went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem. [5] So the churches were strengthened in the faith, and they increased in numbers daily.

Acts 18:23 After spending some time there he [Paul] departed and went from place to place through the region of Galatia and Phryg'ia, strengthening all the disciples.

Romans 1:11 For I [Paul] long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you,

[St. Paul in turn gives God the ultimate credit as the original source of all such strength, channeled through himself and other spiritual leaders ("both/and" reasoning again): Rom 16:15; Eph 3:16; 6:10; Phil 4:13; Col 1:11; 2 Thess 3:3; 1 Tim 1:12; 2 Tim 2:1; 4:17. So does St. Peter: 1 Pet 4:11; 5:10]

At least one passage even illustrates how God uses things in His creation to strengthen man:

Psalm 104:13-15 From thy lofty abode thou waterest the mountains;
the earth is satisfied with the fruit of thy work.
[14] Thou dost cause the grass to grow for the cattle,
and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth,
[15] and wine to gladden the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine,
and bread to strengthen man's heart.

Note how "heart" is used instead of body. This refers to the spirit, not merely physical energy from nutrition.

Encouragement (Deut 1:38; 2 Chron 35:2; Acts 18:27; 20:2; 27:36; Rom 1:12; 1 Cor 14:3, 31; Eph 6:22; Col 2:2; 4:8; 1 Thess 2:11;5:11, 14) and exhortation (Lk 3:18; Acts 2:40; 11:23; 14:22; 15:31-32; 16:40; 20:1; Rom 12:8; 1 Thess 2:11; 3:2; 4:1, 10; 5:14; 2 Thess 3:12; 1 Tim 5:1; 2 Tim 4:2; Titus 2:15; Heb 3:13; 13:22; 1 Pet 5:1, 12) and help (Gen 2:18, 20; Is 41:6 [cf. 10, 13-14]; Acts 16:9; 18:27; 20:35; Rom 16:2; 1 Cor 12:28; 2 Cor 1:11; 1 Thess 5:14) from others (not solely God to the exclusion of men) are similar biblical concepts.

Comfort (of the spiritual sort) is also referred to as coming from fellow human beings: not just from God:

1 Chronicles 7:22 And E'phraim their father mourned many days, and his brothers came to  comfort him.

Job 42:11 Then came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and ate bread with him in his house; and they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him; and each of them gave him a piece of money and a ring of gold.

2 Corinthians 1:4, 6-7 who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. . . . [6] If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. [7] Our hope for you is unshaken; for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort.

2 Corinthians 2:7 so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.

2 Corinthians 7:7 and not only by his coming but also by the comfort with which he was comforted in you, as he told us of your longing, your mourning, your zeal for me, so that I rejoiced still more. (cf. 7:4, 6, 13)

Colossians 4:11 and Jesus who is called Justus. These are the only men of the circumcision among my fellow workers for the kingdom of God, and they have been a comfort to me.

1 Thessalonians 3:7 for this reason, brethren, in all our distress and affliction we have been comforted about you through your faith;

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Philemon 1:7 For I have derived much joy and comfort from your love, my brother, because the hearts of the saints have been refreshed through you.

God even compares His comfort with human (and animal) maternal comfort and care:

Isaiah 66:13 As one whom his mother comforts, so I will comfort you; you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

Lastly, human beings extend to each other God's peace -- as well as grace (God is not the only One who does this, though He is the ultimate origin and cause of it):

Judges 18:6 And the priest said to them, "Go in peace. The journey on which you go is under the eye of the LORD."

1 Samuel 1:17 Then Eli answered, "Go in peace, and the God of Israel grant your petition which you have made to him."

1 Samuel 25:6 And thus you shall salute him: `Peace be to you, and peace be to your house, and peace be to all that you have. (cf. 25:35)

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Matthew 10:13 And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it; but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.

Luke 10:5-6 Whatever house you enter, first say, `Peace be to this house!' [6] And if a son of peace is there, your peace shall rest upon him; but if not, it shall return to you.

Acts 16:36 And the jailer reported the words to Paul, saying, "The magistrates have sent to let you go; now therefore come out and go in peace."

Romans 1:7 To all God's beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ,

Galatians 6:16 Peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God.

Ephesians 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ at Colos'sae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.

1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, Silva'nus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalo'nians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.

2 Thessalonians 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 3:16 Now may the Lord of peace himself give you peace at all times in all ways. The Lord be with you all.

1 Timothy 1:2 To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Timothy 1:2 To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:4 To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.

Philemon 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:2 . . . May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

1 Peter 5:14 . . . Peace to all of you that are in Christ.

2 Peter 1:2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

3 John 1:15 Peace be to you. . . .

Jude 1:2 May mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace  from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,

Now, Mary and other saints are still alive; they are not unconscious or nonexistent. Much in the Bible indicates a consciousness of earthly affairs from heaven (especially in Revelation: see, e.g., Rev 6:9-10; cf. Heb 12:1). So, for example, Jesus rebuked the Sadducees, who denied the resurrection and afterlife:

Matthew 22:29-32 But Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God.
[30] For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
[31] And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God,
[32] `I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."

Mark 12:26-27 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, `I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? [27] He is not God of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong."

Luke 20:34-38 And Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; [35] but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, [36] for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. [37] But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.
[38] Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to him."

If one denies this, then they have other serious problems with biblical revelation. Therefore, Mary and other departed saints can extend to us these blessings and graces, such as peace, comfort, encouragement, help, exhortation, and strength, just as believers extend these things to each other on earth. Death does not end participation in the Body of Christ. To the contrary, it magnifies it and makes it more powerful. And Mary, as the Mother of God the Son, has more power than any other creature to pray and comfort those of us on earth who ask for her aid.

[kingsvine]

 Perhaps my initial response was an emotionally charged "knee-jerk" reaction.  I can see some of the reasoning, but some people seem overboard and it does appear that they are looking to Mary for comfort INSTEAD of Jesus. 

To say you felt better because you prayed a certain way....well, there is a difficulty there too.  New Agers can and do make the same claims. 

And yes, references have been provided, but I am still trying to sort this out.  I visited the Basilica of St Mary
 in Minneapolis.  It's a beautiful church.  But the statue of Mary crowning the altar, and over the Tabernacle, was deeply disturbing to me.  Why do you think that is?

[Dave Armstrong]

Hi kingsvine,

some people seem overboard and it does appear that they are looking to Mary for comfort INSTEAD of Jesus.

Of course some people go overboard and don't properly understand. That is true everywhere. But this is neither here nor there with regard to actual Catholic Mariology, as taught by the Church.

To say you felt better because you prayed a certain way....well, there is a difficulty there too.  New Agers can and do make the same claims.

Again, that is self-evident, but on the other hand, if we become so skeptical that we accept no evidence whatever as an indication that prayers are answered and that others (like Mary) effectively intercede, then we have no more faith than a pagan. In other words, the objection "proves too much." Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything in and of itself (I fully agree) but it does show that something is at least not disproven. Things aren't true because they work (pragmatism), but a thing will indeed work if it is indeed true.

And yes, references have been provided, but I am still trying to sort this out.  I visited the Basilica of St Mary
 in Minneapolis.  It's a beautiful church.  But the statue of Mary crowning the altar, and over the Tabernacle, was deeply disturbing to me.  Why do you think that is?

Obviously because you still suspect that Mary is put above Christ in the Catholic Church. In my own parish, the statue of Mary used to be on the altar, just to the side. When a new priest came in, he moved it out of the immediate sanctuary, citing (as I recall) liturgical rules or canon law (my daughter has had the honor of crowning her twice, over there). So perhaps this church you mention went a bit overboard. But if so, it is a violation, not a proof that Mary is higher in the scheme of things than she actually is, or usurping her Divine Son.

You keep bringing up excesses and people and feelings, whereas I am arguing from Scripture and reason.  Which do you think carries more weight for Christians who accept inspired divine revelation?

[Pani Rose]

As in our parish Panagia Platytera (Greek:  "wider" or "more spacious") is an icon of the Theotokos, directly in the apse above the Altar.   She who bore/contained Christ, has her hands raised, asking us to allow Christ to be as fully formed in us as he was/is in her.

Sometimes it is depicted full length/sometimes, as in our parish, the upper part of her body - with her hands in the "orans" position, and with the image of Christ as a child with the face of an adult - in front of her chest, also facing the viewer directly. Sometimes the image of Christ is contained within a medallion.  He has the face of an adult because he was born with the wisdom of the ages.  He chose Mary, the Most Holy Theotokos to become man in all things except sin.  So that through him - as a friend said - The unholy trinity (me, myself, and I) must give way to the Most Holy Trinity.  
The "I" must give way to the "I AM."   There is only one intercessor between God and man, that is Jesus Christ, but he chose the Our Lady of Sign to bring him here to do that.  So he has allowed her to intercede with her Son for us.

She who by containing the Creator of the Universe in her womb, Mary has become Platytera ton ouranon, which means: "More spacious than the heavens."  This is because he carried the 'uncontainable God'.  This type is sometimes called the "Virgin of the Sign" or "Our Lady of the Sign," a reference to Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel."

Here is a better discussion on it, maybe looking at her visibly in this way can help http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_the_Sign

[Howard the Pilgrim]

No offense taken, Kingsvine.  I can even identify with your knee-jerk reaction because I used to have those myself.   

Indeed, the first time I went to a Catholic church on my own, it took me 3 attempts to get through the front doors of the church because I would chicken out as I felt I was breaking a 500 year old taboo in entering a Catholic church and yet I was being drawn to the Church.

The New Agers don't pray to the God of the Church and the Bible.  And one can feel better praying a certain way just like one can feel better listening to a certain genre of Christian music or in being in a certain place in God's creation or in being with a certain person.  They are all means of grace through which God can and does allow His grace to flow through to us.

And I do look to Jesus for comfort and to others as well including my brothers and sisters on this forum.  One can carry this "Jesus alone" thing to the point where one is actually being disobedient to the Lord whom he or she professes to worship and adore.  The Christian life is to be lived out in the community of believers, those on the earth and those who have left this world.  God designed it that way.  There is no Lone Ranger Christianity.  We have to both give and receive.  Otherwise, God has gifted his people to no purpose.

I think Mary gives many Protestants a hard time because they appreciate her and what she did and what it cost her too little.  They do not honor her.  She had the kid, she served her purpose and they casually toss her aside after the Christmas story like something disposable.  Do you think that Jesus would violate one of God's own commandments and not honor His mother.  Do you think God the Father would violate His own commandments?  God will not reward us the way we have treated her.

Think about it.  By the way, the more intriguing question to me is what keeps drawing you to the Church?  What is it that you seek?

May God bless you and keep you ever deeper into His heart.

Howard

[Howard the Pilgrim]

One more thing.  I was one of those Protestants who did not honor her.  I gave her way too little thought.  I thought about her at Christmas but mainly as a backdrop to the main event.  I did not seek to identify with her or put myself in her place.  I also did not know she had become my mother too.  It was mostly an unintentional oversight on my part.  I thank the Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox for setting me straight.

There are some Protestants who honor her to some degree such as those of the Anglo-Catholic wing of the Anglican Communion and some of the Lutherans.

[Free]

Kingsvine said: "But the statue of Mary crowning the altar, and over the Tabernacle, was deeply disturbing to me.  Why do you think that is?"

Kingsvine, I can think of two reasons for your disturbed feelings, both of which may be correct, and there may be other reasons as well.

1) Deep inside you are ways of viewing Mary that are teachings, yes, but have settled much deeper than your intellect, and these teachings are deep-seated prejudices against Mary.  In previous posts I have said about myself that these teachings were as deep within me and as intertwined with who I am as my DNA.  In our Protestant backgrounds, there may have been no overt teaching against Mary.  Instead it was a subtle atmosphere of distrust, caution, suspicion with the underlying premise of avoidance of all things Catholic.  Yes, Protestants and Catholics "share" Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but, from the Protestant perspective, only Catholics "go overboard" about Mary.  Honestly, most Protestants do their best to avoid Mary, and would most likely do away with her altogether if she wasn't mentioned in the Bible. (I wonder what that says about their view of motherhood?  of womanhood?)  Most likely a suspicion of Mary, and especially statues of Mary, are settled into you as deep as your DNA, and that is one cause for your disturbance when viewing her over the altar and tabernacle.  For us to say, "trust us, we don't put her above Jesus, we don't worship her," probably isn't going to convince you.  It is only the Holy Spirit who can go deeper than your DNA and can unwind the suspicion from within you and convince you that Mary is your blessed Mother who will intercede for you with her Son because she loves you as one of her children who believe in her Son.

2)The second reason for your disturbance, in my humble view, is that the Holy Spirit is working within you right now, or at least asking your permission to work within you on the issue of Mary.  And Satan is working hard to keep you from the fullness of the truth, the fullness of the faith.  That sets up a tense vibration within a person that is highly disturbing!  Not a comfortable place to be!  My advice is to pray fervently for God's will to be done, and please know that we are praying with you.

[Candlemass]

Some christians won't own crystals, have pics of rainbows, listen to etheral music, use their imagination in prayer...all for fear of the new age!  :

[kingsvine]

As a young freshly minted missionary... (way back in the 80's!), who was on the way to the Philippines and other 3rd world "Catholic" countries, I had to attend (and received credit for attending!)  several seminars on the evils of Catholicism.  I will spare you all the details, except to say that when I received my certificate, I had been indoctrinated into thinking the Church was the devils instrument,  and received instruction on how to preach to and "save" Catholics.  I viewed Catholics at that time as needing to be rescued from idolatry and bondage.  I am sure many of you are familiar with what I am talking about.  The amazing thing was that after being in Mindanao for some time, certain priests and nuns  became our biggest partners in reaching the unreached with the gospel and food aid.  I just thought God was "working on them" and waited for my Catholic friends to see the light.
Today I understand that most of what I learned at those seminars was plain wrong!  I was even a bit angry for awhile at the prejudice and misinformation that I had been taught.  But I also understand the great gulf that is dividing Father's children. 
It's been an amazing journey.  There isnt space here to tell you about it.  Today, I dont know where I fit.  My best friends are Bernard of Clairvaux, St Ignatious, St John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Fenelon, the Desert Fathers, Catherine of Siena and I am currently making my way through Butlers Lives of the Saints.  Next to my bed is my dog eared copy of Oswald Chamber's "My Utmost for His Highest"...definately evangelical but wonderful, right next to my copy of Living With Christ, (Catholic publication).  I love the devotion of the Church.  It is where I go to get my spirit fed.  It is where I go to meet my Beloved God. 
Mary remains my main difficulty (mostly).  And I appreciate Howard's transparencey in his replies!  Free, you hit the nail, and Dave et al....the info is great...be patient with me!