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Hi,

My church has recently posted a Parish Nurse Questionnaire.  I thought most of it was good, but near the bottom there is a section entitled "Information on Holistic Health", with choices for "yes" or "no".  One of the choices was "Reiki therapy", and I reacted quickly.  I sent an email to the pastor via the rectory office, and, lo and behold, soon enough I received a response from another staff member apologizing that that was included, owing to the fact that the parish nurse was not a Catholic for very long, and that the powers that be should have reviewed the questionnaire before it was posted.

I know USCCB has condemned Reiki- that's why I reacted.  The other things listed on the "Information on Holistic Health" are: Yoga, Self-Hypnosis, Stone massage, Drumming, Chair Massage, Pilates.  I didn't react to those because I wasn't sure, though I did react to "Reiki".  I don't believe the full scope of Yoga would be acceptable, but only the concepts of stretching and breathing and so forth.  I don't know much about Pilates.  I don't think chair massage would be a problem.  Self-hypnosis?  I have no data.  Stone massage in my quick googling seems to show just stones with heat, but seemingly it could be based on or incorporated with other non-Christian elements.  Any help here regarding data, and what to do, if anything?  I was encouraged that they took Reiki off.  But what about these other things?  Website link is http://www.strosechurch.com/page/115-parish-nurse-questionnaire

Thanks,
Peter

I would say, generally, that we should avoid anything that has overt reference to hostile eastern religious concepts.

I'm an advocate of health food, holistic health, whole foods, alternative medicine, herbalism, vitamins, etc. myself but I have steered clear of anything that has false religious philosophy in it. It's pretty easy to spot. Sometimes one can participate in something that may have originated in eastern religion without partaking in that aspect of it. The martial arts is a clear example of that.

Hello Peter,

It seems to me that this "Parish Nurse Questionnaire" goes far beyond the realm of nursing, into a much more comprehensive consideration of "lifestyle" and "alternative medicine" areas that have nothing to do with nursing. Therefore, the very title of the "program" is a misnomer. Strictly speaking, only the information on physical diseases (the first section) is nursing, properly so called. The remainder of the questions would require people with expertise in fields other than nursing.

Furthermore, what is there called "holistic health" is really New Age spiritual healing which is incompatible with Christianity and should be stricken entirely from the questionnaire as inappropriate activity for Catholics. Yes, all of them without exception.

Finally, one has to question if this group of 20 nurses who claim to be Catholic is even Christian if they are accepting of such undisciplined expansion of their own profession into areas such as a bicycling club or yoga. The fact that yoga, reiki, self-hypnosis, stone massage, etc. are all New Age “spiritual” remedies either condemned by the Church or take-offs on them shows that this group of nurses has no idea what Christian spirituality is about or why these others are incompatible with it. I would seriously question whether the pastor even knows this is going on, and if he does, whether he has approved it. It definitely needs to be brought to his attention.

David

Just popping in for a quick question....

I am confused about the word "holistic" - which, in my business degree curriculum, meant "pertaining to the whole", rather than having a religious or new-agey connotation.

Sure, what we generally think of as medicine and the healing sciences pertains to, well, medical doctors and phamacueticals, I can see a need for chiropractors (who aren't necessarily adjusting my chi when they pop my back), massage (I'm diabetic, and I meed a good massage).  I could even reason out why acupuncture helps reduce pain.

Some lady gave my wife some kind of metallic bead that's supposed to help with arthritis.  My wife is far from the age where arthritis is likely to be a problem.  (I have claimed the beads, net believing they would work, but, hey, my trick arm is giving me problems with all this weather changing in Georgia).

I've come to understand that holistic medicine attempts to treat the whole body, with some practices that just plain isn't used by traditional science/medicine today.  While there may be a valid reason why science today ignores some old and ancient "healing arts", perhaps there is a reason why some of these remedies were effective in days past.

I wrote a paper where I argued that if one achieves health improvement results with herbs or homeopathy, etc., then it is required neither to believe in every jot and tittle of what it may entail, nor to be "unscientific":

Homeopathy, Pragmatic Medicine, Dogmatic Science, and Supposedly "Unscientific" Religion (http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/10/homeopathy-pragmatic-medicine-dogmatic.html)

excellent read, Dave.

Would you lump a lot of what passes for "holisitic medicine" in with homeopathy?

Well, that's only a small part of the whole. But many of the remedies one can buy at a health food or vitamin store are homeopathic. One has to examine each thing individually.

Like I wrote in the article, I don't know all the ins and outs of homeopathic theory (nor do I care to). What I have seen seems goofy and counter-intuitive to me, even irrational. But in a sense it doesn't matter. If I take a pill and it works, who cares what the method is by which it works? I haven't adopted any unChristian philosophy. I'm simply taking a pill to make me sleep or stop sneezing, etc., or to help knock off a cold.

It's better to take a pill that isn't fully understood, that works, and has no side effects, than to take one that the doctor or pharmacist claims to understand, but doesn't work, and has bad side effects and a hefty price tag as well. The bottom line is feeling better.

It's like chiropractors. The medical establishment has bad-mouthed them for years. Meanwhile, millions of us have gone to them and solved our back pain (that, often, the doctors couldn't alleviate). So let them complain while we feel better. Different strokes, I reckon.

I am meeting more and more people who believe in more homeopathic means of treating disease. Whole foods, avoiding other foods. Sometimes obvious choices. Sometimes seemingly confusing. Such as pasteurized vs unpasteurized milk. Cancer treatment through standard radiation, vs treating it through diet and herbs and natural poisons mainly. Vaccinations good or bad? I feel a bit confused as all sides can make solid arguments.
The one I want to inquire more about is acupuncture, which I am increasingly convinced does work scientifically in some way, but I wonder if the way it is traditionally practiced (theory of chi) is incompatible with Catholic teaching. And if it is, does that mean one can not still receive it as long as they do not subscribe to that part of it, but only subscribe to the idea that it is working somehow? What if the doctor believes in chi? And is chi possibly something that does exist, but in an invisible way. I am not saying we can physically touch or treat the soul, but maybe there is an invisible sort of life energy that gets clogged with stress and toxins and that the needles can clear up. Maybe it is not exactly as the Chinese doctors would say, but maybe there is something there?
The Church I go to is sort of pushing a lot of this holistic stuff and it is fascinating, but confusing since a lot of it goes against standard thought. But I would love to learn more or discuss the cancer treatment or acupuncture thing in order to see if I cna practice or recommend them. 
I am also increasingly interested in going to a chiroprator if certain needs arose as opposed to taking pills or surgery etc.   

Brian I could 'never' imagine my husband having accupuncture, but he does.  He is a diabetic, with end stage renal decease on peritineal dialysis which started two years ago.  Then after getting out of the hospital from his kidneys shut down, he was hit by a car walking into Sam's Club. It just seem to come about, someone mentioned an MD in town who did accupuncture, so he decided to try it.  There seem to be no relief for him.  He decided to try it, and he can't even imagine sometimes that he does get it done on a regular basis, which to it is applied some electrical current.  Dr. Miller is a delightful Catholic doctor, very humble, there is no funny stuff with it there - unless getting stuck with a bunch of needles is funny  :o  Anyway, he could not raise his shoulders/arms upwards, now he can lift his arms above his head.  The pain in his feet is all but gone, along with the swelling,  the doctor says he takes very little of the electrical current on them now.  Also, at the Divita clinic they are amazed that he is still producing as much urine as he does, and that has  increased.  So for him it has worked.

I am just waiting for full restoration of his kidneys.  I believe it will come, but by God's grace.  He uses man abilities, but it is God the Father, himself who does the healing.  You have to be really careful there is a lot of really goofy stuff out there, prayer is always necessary in decerning what God desires for us.  

Another thought, if anyone is out there with a loved one on dialysis, check into Peritineal Dialysis, and see if it is possible to use the 'Cycler'.  It is night time dialysis, he hooks up to the machine when he is ready for bed, and it does all of the exchanges at night while he sleeps.  His days are free, he has really good energy - if you know anyone on hemo dialysis you know what I mean - he is able to get up and go everyday.  Also, as a deacon, he is able to serve all the liturgies and services of the Church without problem, and be where he is needed to be.  He has to go to the clinic once a week for a shot that helps his body produce red blood cells and for blood work, but other than that, life is pretty normal.  Praise God!

I have had accupunture and just regular massage for back pain- both worked but of course they cost. I didn't subscribe to any "chi"  etc theories I just assumed that they worked due to relieving muscle and or nerve tensions. Herbal stuff as well as foods can help again without having to believe andy kind of Eastern or new age stuff.in fact i ate so much ginger to alleviate morning sickness it is a miracle that my kids weren't born smelling like gginger bread ;D ;D

I'd view accupuncture as similar to homeopathy: if indeed it works it is not necessarily because of the explanations that some proponents give for it. There could very well be other factors involved, and the initial theories are the wrong explanation for why they work.

One could easily use the treatment,m while believing nothing along the lines of chi or eastern philosophies. If it works it works. There is no sin (or even illogical thinking) in that.

But does it matter if the doctor believes in chi? I mean,  if you wanted to find the best possible doctor to perform acupuncture, a lot of people would believe that a Chinese doctor who has studied it from its original context is going to know how to best administer it. Would you be willing to suggest someone use this even if the doctor believed he was practicing something incompatible with your religion?

It doesn't matter, if you don't believe it. Let him believe what he will. You could believe it works by unknown scientific processes or non-chi processes (if you know something about the science of it), and can benefit by it without believing in anything foreign to Christianity or science.

Whatever the doctor believes is not directly relevant. As far as you or I are concerned, it is simply a technique to alleviate pain or some other condition.

I could understand this from the point of view that St. Paul takes with food sacrificed to idols (1 Corinthians 8). But I also believe that the point he makes in vv. 7–13 is very much to the point. For there are many in this world who will consider you a syncretist — or worse, an idolater — if you partake of these remedies. So what have you gained? Health at the expense of the souls of several of your friends and relatives — or that of the doctor? Then where will your own soul end up?

David

Well, this is the fine line between liberty and being a potential stumbling block that Paul refers to in 1 Cor 8:9. It's roughly the same thing that many of our Protestant brethren struggle with in regard to use of alcohol. We know that alcohol is permissible (Paul even recommends it for stomach problems; Jesus' first miracle involved it), but we also know that it causes many to stumble. Same thing with gambling. So what do we do? I think it must, therefore, come down to individual situations.

As for being considered and/or called things, look at what many Protestants think Catholics are: idolaters, half-pagan, Pelagians, synergists, Mariolaters, followers of mere traditions of men, anti-Bible, supposedly devoid of the gospel, etc. Obviously, we can't change Catholic dogma so they won't be stumbled. They are stumbled because of lack of knowledge (including, ironically, much biblical knowledge).

On this forum we can only present our opinions on the overall issues. Even then someone might be "stumbled" but I don't know how it is possible to write about a wide range of spiritual / theological topics and completely avoid that.

In person it is a different scenario and more directly applicable, I think, to Paul's concerns in 1 Corinthians 8:7-13. So if I know that a person is stumbled by accupuncture, thinking that no one could possibly use it or benefit from it without spiritual danger, then around him I would pretty much avoid both the practice and talking about it, just as I would not drink around a known alcoholic. It's how I have acted around my Protestant family for years. I avoid Catholic things that would stumble them, and try to speak in their language, as Vatican II stressed, following Paul (more on that below).

But just as the existence of alcoholics does not rule out all alcohol use, likewise, the existence of what I would say is an overly legalistic fear of false spiritualities attached to medical practices does not rule out all use of those things whatever.

I think it is a fine line. I am trying to apply both sides of St. Paul's concerns in these sorts of issues. In the immediate context of this thread, Brian's question had to do what the doctor personally believed, not with what a possible observer might think is taking place (being potentially scandalized). I answered accordingly.

Now that the issue of scandalized and weak bystanders has been brought in, I am answering in a different way, and adding more nuance to my preceding replies, by acknowledging somewhat paradoxical competing concerns. Clearly, in any event, there are very fine lines and complexities of application. In the next chapter Paul goes into his discourse about being all things to all people, which is one of my favorite passages of his, and which has been a guide for years to me as I do apologetics and outreach. Thus, when faced with others of certain inclinations, it is best for us to sort of blend in with that and operate from within those paradigms in order to win them over.

But the doctor's physical / spiritual beliefs vs. the patient's physical / spiritual beliefs was a different scenario altogether. In other words, I think it is two different things to be discussed, and I'm happy to discuss both, as long as we properly distinguish them.

  This was great reading!  though its an old one,I really wanted to jump in here.  since I have deemed some personal experience in this.  I believe its safe to say, with my history, and background,  that many people turn to alternative methods of healcare, because
1) they have experienced the other and werent getting anywhere or
2) they are already aware of the benefits of natural alternative practices and find that suitable instead.


 Yes I am a FIRM believer in many alternative methods however one must be very careful with them as well.  Because they are herbs, plants,  does not mean they dont have side affects. Some do and its important to KNOW what we are taking and  why. what I find amazing is that  many drs, are just adamant that they wont even talk about them. Here is why.  I know personally two doctors, who said this to me. They did not learn about natural methods of treatment.  They are taught to treat with drugs!!!!  I worked in healthcare for years, and this is true.  I have even said to other nurses, that its not rocket science to know, that if we mix too many of these compunds toegther, there is gonna be a problem!!!  say that to a dr, and he wil look at you like you have just spoken in a foreign language.
      Please hear me, I am not saying that meds dont work, but are they the best choice? not always.  then there is the spiritual side of this.  false religions are what they are, false.  I truly believe we must be very careful period! what we allow to go into our bodies!  I have a family member who is so insistent on drugs, to treat everything,, that even her grandchildren are all on something@! she has found a dr who calls in prescriptions every time any of them sneeze!!  and these kiddos get meds for sleeping! and yes, a dr is behind doing that.......that is appalling to me, and shows what i am trying to say.  There are some things I just believe we need to nOT use or partake of.
      Besides this, has anyone read the side affects on the printout with the drug>  Please know that they are there because someone somewhere has had that reaction. Then there is intolerance! and thats where i was.  my body no longer could tolerate what they were using to treat the illnesses they said i had.  some meds overwork the liver and kidneys) I agree however, that we must be careful! what we use to treat our bodies........and hey God -made food........and I mean......homegrown veggies, fruit, and the like is the best!!! God designed these bodies for certain foods to work better than others!  His food, fresh that is, sustain life, and manmade, make the flesh feel better!  processed, chemically produced, are terrible for the body to process!  great topic guys!  Paul the apostle is so right on!  and ya know? things havent changed, when it comes to God!  He still dsires to be first in all things!....amen!

BTW.......lol  :) I said that as I read what I wrote I said that you guys write so awesome here and wow.  mine is ...uhhh..lets say choppy!  but hey..... ;) hope you will at least get the gest of what I am saying!

   and yes, this nurse thing?  I agree that this may have crossed the boundaires in what should be shared within the church.    geez, ya think I will get all of my thoughts together this morning??  lol ???

Doctors and pharmacists aren't infallible (in case someone doesn't know that yet). A few years ago, my mother was on ten different prescription drugs at once. She was actually hallucinating, and was literally diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease.

My sister and I did some research on drug interactions and discovered that there were about seven conflicting interactions going on there. It was so simple we were able to find this out simply from online drug interaction charts at pharmaceutical sites.

The doctor then reversed her diagnosis. I even found out about a sort of fake Parkinson's, where the same symptoms can be brought on by side effects of drugs.

This was not a simple error on their part. It was downright incompetence, to make mistakes so absurd that a non-medical professional like myself could determine that it was wrong in a couple hours of Internet searching.

I urge people to use the information now available to at least keep doctors accountable for mistakes such as this. I'm not trying to sue anyone for malpractice. That is not the answer. That's why we have the high costs we have. I just want people to be healthy and happy (in this case, my own mother).

There are good doctors and bad doctors, just as in any other profession. If legal abortion doesn't prove that, nothing will.

Dave I say amen!!  Been there and done that.....the seizure disorder that drs say I had?  actually went away, when I got off all of the drugs, and yes, anti seizure drugs were making the sx worse!!!! that is the truth. anyway....and please dont anyone STOP taking medicine because of what we are saying!  :(    This is why it is so i mportant to have family close at hand and to know us well, and will intercede on our behalf!  amen dave! Lord have mercy....on the drs and the people in the medical industry who think they have allllllll the answers!!!

Just glancing at this thread has brought up in my mind a question that I’ve always been confused about… I've noticed some mention of the concept of “Chi.” I once had a Catholic friend who was getting into Martial Arts and he used to mention "Chi" as if it were a normal part of life, like it was just a given. So, first of all, what exactly is it? I always thought of it as simply an energy force within the body. If so, what’s the big deal? And what exactly is the Church’s stand on this concept? I mean, I realize it’s all wrapped up in Eastern philosophy and what-not, but… could it be that there is some basis for this idea? I don’t mean to sound like I’m in any way pitting it against Catholic Christianity. But on the other hand, aren’t we on here kind of famous for the “both/and” approach?

I’m not trying to argue for the idea or anything. I just seriously want to know. What is it about Chi that is so bad? I can understand if people take the idea and completely override God and consider “Chi” as some kind of god in and of itself. Then I can see the problem. But on the other hand, aren’t we a combination of several parts of a whole? Body, mind, soul, spirit? Could “Chi” be just another part of us – or even part of our “spirit”… whatever that really means, for sure? I mean, what is the difference between soul and spirit? I guess, in thinking about it, maybe for me “soul” means that part of us that is related to our “conscious” – our inner being, that part of us that goes on even after we die. Whereas “spirit” maybe means something like our will or our drive to do something. I mean, when I think of “spirit” I think of phrases like… “her spirits are low,” or “that’s the spirit!” or “he has the spirit (or “will”) to live.”  Maybe I don’t really understand the exact definition of “spirit.” (And maybe that’s another topic in itself…)

I dunno. I’m just musing, and I’ve digressed… but as for “Chi,” is there no possibility that some sort of an energy field or an electronic bodily current or some unseen force is a part of us? I’m not talking about channeling some all-encompassing force like on Star Wars, or being all connected to one another by some weird kind of thing that invisibly threads us all together like we’re all part of some kind of weave or something - like on “Avatar” (haven’t seen the movie, but heard about it). But then again, maybe that's what Chi really does refer to: those examples I just mentioned. But as for my understanding of it up to now, I’m just saying… isn’t it possible that there is some electrical type of current that directly affects our bodies and how it reacts to things? Let me give you an example of what I mean: my mom, at least for the longest time, could not wear a regular watch – you know, the regular quartz watches with the hand movements. They wouldn’t work. She had to wear digital watches if any at all. But she always figured it had something to do with her body’s energy currents or something. Now, if you knew my mom, you’d realize she wasn’t making any kind of reference to some sort of belief in some mystical Eastern religion or philosophy. My mom is one of the sweetest, most Catholic women I know. She’s the epitome of the solid-in-her-faith grandmotherly type who believes in God and His Church with her whole soul and being. Still, she used to say very matter-of-factly as if it’s just common sense that her body’s “electrical currents” - or whatever term you might use - affected her in such a way that she couldn’t wear a regular watch.

That’s all I’m saying. If “Chi” just refers to some kind of an energy current that runs through our bodies, well... makes sense to me. And if that is the case, it seems like a big deal out of nothing. Unless... it gets incorporated into some kind of a religious thing that butts heads with our faith. In thinking more about it even as I'm writing, I imagine it probably does refer to more than mere electrical currents, but if so, then... just wondering if someone can give me a real definition of "Chi" and what exactly the Magisterium says about the whole subject of an energy force within our body, let alone the idea of "Chi" if it's something more than that. As you can probably tell, I'm a little confused by the whole subject.

Anyway, on another side note, just thought I'd add... I tend to agree with Dave on his entire view of holistic health. If it works and it doesn't lead us into sin, why not use the gifts God has given us? What's wrong with using herbs, for instance? Did God put them here only for witches and New Age Groupies and cult worshipers to use? Or did He put them here to tempt us to cure our bodies when we shouldn't? I think not...

JMJ
- Cheri

Let’s not get too deeply into arguments about medicines here. This is the realm of science, not of religion. Let us not make a religion out of science — especially a pseudo-science such as following hearsay about untested remedies. Let me at least point out some common sense things that are often overlooked when people go galloping after “natural” remedies and “holistic” medicine.


An important point. All medicines, regardless of kind, regardless of origin, have side effects. There are no exceptions. What distinguishes a good medicine from a bad one are three points: 1. effectiveness, doing what is needed; 2. side effects and safety — basically not doing what we don’t want or need them to do, especially where this is harmful to the human system; 3. availability and cost. The first and third points go without saying. The second has to to with the type and severity of the side effects. Only those substances whose side effects are completely know and proved tolerable and relatively non-interacting and non-interfering can be used safely. This is why we have a scientific basis for our pharmaceuticals today.


This is a false dichotomy based on an oversimplification. All medicines, whether we call them “natural” or “drugs,” are in fact natural. They occur naturally or can be manufactured from materials that are naturally occurring. This is the nature of creation: there is nothing new under the sun.

The usual difference between “natural” remedies and “drugs” is the amount of purity, refinement and concentration of the effective ingredient.


The same can be said of any substance. But those substances that are commonly called “medications” have at least been laboratory proved to be effective, safe and available at a price which is affordable to many people, according to the criteria outlined above. It seems only reasonable that if someone wants to use a “natural” substance, it should be subjected to the same criteria and testing. Otherwise, it is a shot in the dark which could be worthless as medicine and, at least to some, actually harmful.

As has been pointed out in several posts, medical professionals must carry much of the blame for mistaken and irresponsible use of medications. No matter what kind of substance a particular medication is, it is bound to interact with something else somewhere along the line simply because of the complexity of the human organism.


The word is of Chinese origin and means “energy.” Connotatively, it is vaguely like “spiritual power” in English. In other words, it is not a scientific term, but a traditional one used by people who, at least in former times, believed in mysterious forces which they thought were controlled by what westerners, for lack of a better term, have tended to call “demons.” These spiritual beings are not, however, styled as either good or evil; they simply exist and act, like the “spirits” or “souls” of the dead (recall that ancestor worship played a huge role in the history of China) and what we might call “angels,” except for the fact that they had no concept of an all-powerful and eternal God who creates and governs all that exists.

The problem with chi is not what it is, but what people in our day have made of it, through their New Age and neopagan ideologies. Here is a Vatican document (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html) on the whole New Age movement and how Catholic Christians should understand and view it. Your reference to the “Force” in Star Wars appears to be quite close to the concept of chi as I have encountered it in both ancient and modern texts. The fact that the word can have a religious meaning must be taken into account when considering whether and how to use it.

Now if the mythology and pseudo-religious connotations could be stripped away, it might be possible for Christians to study and make use of whatever portions of the ancient arts are worthwhile. My main concern is not that they were formerly (or even now) seen in a “spiritualist” light, but that there may be some scientific bases in them that could be used to advance the medical arts of the west. However, let us do so safely and wisely by testing everything, not just willy-nilly accepting something because it “might” work where nothing else is currently working.

By the way, you mention electrical currents. You should be aware that there are electrical currents throughout the human body. They run through the network of nerves, controlling muscles and many other parts of the body, and are also massively concentrated in the brain. I won’t say that the brain is just a humongous microprocessor, but as an oversimplification, that seems to be the closest human technology has approached so far to God’s awesome creation.

David

This forum can't get bogged down in medical discussion, except insofar as it is directly tied into the faith somehow. This is the express desire of CHNI as a whole, not only your illustrious moderators. I have bosses, too.  :) We want to move forward to the more directly spiritual and pastoral and theological emphases that this forum is designed to serve. I merely gave one horror story of what my mother went through; I was not trying to start this whole discussion of holistic health up again.

Anyone who wants to read my revised comment that used to be in this spot, and additional thoughts of mine, can read the new post on my blog (http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2010/02/reflections-on-various-aspects-of-my.html) and comment there if they wish. My blog is different in several ways from this forum (as most of you know, no doubt!). But I don't wish to "advocate" the holistic philosophy here because it is beyond our purview and not my place in my moderator function.

The larger discussion relevant only when someone is wondering how to reconcile some practice or belief with the Catholic faith. That is clearly relevant, I think, to what we do and what our purpose is at CHNI.

Wow!  I just lost my post!!! :( bummer....I am NOT going to repeat that one. However I will say this.  David and dave, great info!  Dave, I admire what you did for your wife.  I know and understand. For I have been there myself and found so much help! I agree that chiropractors have been given a bad rap!  My friend who is a dr who teaches in a university, told me, with all of my previous health issues to see one and he recommended one.  yep! This is a highly respected dr!  He has truly helped me and my husband with some great info!  That worked!
      I will say this, a nurse has a specific call or duty. That is to care for people within the boundaries of medicine allowed.  I have no problem for a nurse to teach the church proper nutrition and healthy issues for a better life. However she is NOT a medical dr.  Must be careful what we allow to take place within, even if it comes in the guise as GOOD!  :) Thanks to all here. great posts!

As I have said, "I respect few people more than medical doctors and nurses. They are usually extraordinary human beings." I have a problem with the giant systems that develop, the power and hubris involved, and the disdain for others outside of the system. It seems to be human nature to look down our noses at anyone who is different from us, and to not approach them with charity, but with suspicion.

We have to see the good and bad that can be found in all movements. That is as true of the holistic health movement as any other. As I wrote in my new blog paper, referred to above:

There is quackery to be found in holistic health circles (sometimes quite a bit in specific areas of it) and some goofy eastern religious stuff and fakes making money. That is true in all areas of life, so it comes as no surprise. We all must develop a proper appreciation for scientific support for these things, and not be taken in by charlatans out to make a buck or sell something that does nothing (back to the "snake oil" again!): merely acting as a placebo. . . .

I am 100% in favor of scientific method, and I detest all quackery and false religious elements, wherever they are found. Scientific verification is good and necessary in many ways. It's no different in terms of the verification of anything connected with holistic health.

This is why I've always said that we all need to do our own homework. With the massive resources now available in the Internet, without even having to take a trip to the library, there is less excuse for ignorance than ever.

Absolutely!  St. Peter said " to study and show ourselves approved". Doesnt just apply to scripture.  Well that goes for everything pertaining to our lives doesnt it?   We must know...FOR OURSELVES!   Thanks...God bless