Holistic Health questions

[deborahssong]

  This was great reading!  though its an old one,I really wanted to jump in here.  since I have deemed some personal experience in this.  I believe its safe to say, with my history, and background,  that many people turn to alternative methods of healcare, because
1) they have experienced the other and werent getting anywhere or
2) they are already aware of the benefits of natural alternative practices and find that suitable instead.


 Yes I am a FIRM believer in many alternative methods however one must be very careful with them as well.  Because they are herbs, plants,  does not mean they dont have side affects. Some do and its important to KNOW what we are taking and  why. what I find amazing is that  many drs, are just adamant that they wont even talk about them. Here is why.  I know personally two doctors, who said this to me. They did not learn about natural methods of treatment.  They are taught to treat with drugs!!!!  I worked in healthcare for years, and this is true.  I have even said to other nurses, that its not rocket science to know, that if we mix too many of these compunds toegther, there is gonna be a problem!!!  say that to a dr, and he wil look at you like you have just spoken in a foreign language.
      Please hear me, I am not saying that meds dont work, but are they the best choice? not always.  then there is the spiritual side of this.  false religions are what they are, false.  I truly believe we must be very careful period! what we allow to go into our bodies!  I have a family member who is so insistent on drugs, to treat everything,, that even her grandchildren are all on something@! she has found a dr who calls in prescriptions every time any of them sneeze!!  and these kiddos get meds for sleeping! and yes, a dr is behind doing that.......that is appalling to me, and shows what i am trying to say.  There are some things I just believe we need to nOT use or partake of.
      Besides this, has anyone read the side affects on the printout with the drug>  Please know that they are there because someone somewhere has had that reaction. Then there is intolerance! and thats where i was.  my body no longer could tolerate what they were using to treat the illnesses they said i had.  some meds overwork the liver and kidneys) I agree however, that we must be careful! what we use to treat our bodies........and hey God -made food........and I mean......homegrown veggies, fruit, and the like is the best!!! God designed these bodies for certain foods to work better than others!  His food, fresh that is, sustain life, and manmade, make the flesh feel better!  processed, chemically produced, are terrible for the body to process!  great topic guys!  Paul the apostle is so right on!  and ya know? things havent changed, when it comes to God!  He still dsires to be first in all things!....amen!

[deborahssong]

BTW.......lol   I said that as I read what I wrote I said that you guys write so awesome here and wow.  mine is ...uhhh..lets say choppy!  but hey..... hope you will at least get the gest of what I am saying!

[deborahssong]

   and yes, this nurse thing?  I agree that this may have crossed the boundaires in what should be shared within the church.    geez, ya think I will get all of my thoughts together this morning??  lol

[Dave Armstrong]

Doctors and pharmacists aren't infallible (in case someone doesn't know that yet). A few years ago, my mother was on ten different prescription drugs at once. She was actually hallucinating, and was literally diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease.

My sister and I did some research on drug interactions and discovered that there were about seven conflicting interactions going on there. It was so simple we were able to find this out simply from online drug interaction charts at pharmaceutical sites.

The doctor then reversed her diagnosis. I even found out about a sort of fake Parkinson's, where the same symptoms can be brought on by side effects of drugs.

This was not a simple error on their part. It was downright incompetence, to make mistakes so absurd that a non-medical professional like myself could determine that it was wrong in a couple hours of Internet searching.

I urge people to use the information now available to at least keep doctors accountable for mistakes such as this. I'm not trying to sue anyone for malpractice. That is not the answer. That's why we have the high costs we have. I just want people to be healthy and happy (in this case, my own mother).

There are good doctors and bad doctors, just as in any other profession. If legal abortion doesn't prove that, nothing will.

[deborahssong]

Dave I say amen!!  Been there and done that.....the seizure disorder that drs say I had?  actually went away, when I got off all of the drugs, and yes, anti seizure drugs were making the sx worse!!!! that is the truth. anyway....and please dont anyone STOP taking medicine because of what we are saying!      This is why it is so i mportant to have family close at hand and to know us well, and will intercede on our behalf!  amen dave! Lord have mercy....on the drs and the people in the medical industry who think they have allllllll the answers!!!

[Talithacumi]

Just glancing at this thread has brought up in my mind a question that I’ve always been confused about… I've noticed some mention of the concept of “Chi.” I once had a Catholic friend who was getting into Martial Arts and he used to mention "Chi" as if it were a normal part of life, like it was just a given. So, first of all, what exactly is it? I always thought of it as simply an energy force within the body. If so, what’s the big deal? And what exactly is the Church’s stand on this concept? I mean, I realize it’s all wrapped up in Eastern philosophy and what-not, but… could it be that there is some basis for this idea? I don’t mean to sound like I’m in any way pitting it against Catholic Christianity. But on the other hand, aren’t we on here kind of famous for the “both/and” approach?

I’m not trying to argue for the idea or anything. I just seriously want to know. What is it about Chi that is so bad? I can understand if people take the idea and completely override God and consider “Chi” as some kind of god in and of itself. Then I can see the problem. But on the other hand, aren’t we a combination of several parts of a whole? Body, mind, soul, spirit? Could “Chi” be just another part of us – or even part of our “spirit”… whatever that really means, for sure? I mean, what is the difference between soul and spirit? I guess, in thinking about it, maybe for me “soul” means that part of us that is related to our “conscious” – our inner being, that part of us that goes on even after we die. Whereas “spirit” maybe means something like our will or our drive to do something. I mean, when I think of “spirit” I think of phrases like… “her spirits are low,” or “that’s the spirit!” or “he has the spirit (or “will”) to live.”  Maybe I don’t really understand the exact definition of “spirit.” (And maybe that’s another topic in itself…)

I dunno. I’m just musing, and I’ve digressed… but as for “Chi,” is there no possibility that some sort of an energy field or an electronic bodily current or some unseen force is a part of us? I’m not talking about channeling some all-encompassing force like on Star Wars, or being all connected to one another by some weird kind of thing that invisibly threads us all together like we’re all part of some kind of weave or something - like on “Avatar” (haven’t seen the movie, but heard about it). But then again, maybe that's what Chi really does refer to: those examples I just mentioned. But as for my understanding of it up to now, I’m just saying… isn’t it possible that there is some electrical type of current that directly affects our bodies and how it reacts to things? Let me give you an example of what I mean: my mom, at least for the longest time, could not wear a regular watch – you know, the regular quartz watches with the hand movements. They wouldn’t work. She had to wear digital watches if any at all. But she always figured it had something to do with her body’s energy currents or something. Now, if you knew my mom, you’d realize she wasn’t making any kind of reference to some sort of belief in some mystical Eastern religion or philosophy. My mom is one of the sweetest, most Catholic women I know. She’s the epitome of the solid-in-her-faith grandmotherly type who believes in God and His Church with her whole soul and being. Still, she used to say very matter-of-factly as if it’s just common sense that her body’s “electrical currents” - or whatever term you might use - affected her in such a way that she couldn’t wear a regular watch.

That’s all I’m saying. If “Chi” just refers to some kind of an energy current that runs through our bodies, well... makes sense to me. And if that is the case, it seems like a big deal out of nothing. Unless... it gets incorporated into some kind of a religious thing that butts heads with our faith. In thinking more about it even as I'm writing, I imagine it probably does refer to more than mere electrical currents, but if so, then... just wondering if someone can give me a real definition of "Chi" and what exactly the Magisterium says about the whole subject of an energy force within our body, let alone the idea of "Chi" if it's something more than that. As you can probably tell, I'm a little confused by the whole subject.

Anyway, on another side note, just thought I'd add... I tend to agree with Dave on his entire view of holistic health. If it works and it doesn't lead us into sin, why not use the gifts God has given us? What's wrong with using herbs, for instance? Did God put them here only for witches and New Age Groupies and cult worshipers to use? Or did He put them here to tempt us to cure our bodies when we shouldn't? I think not...

JMJ
- Cheri

[David W. Emery]

Let’s not get too deeply into arguments about medicines here. This is the realm of science, not of religion. Let us not make a religion out of science — especially a pseudo-science such as following hearsay about untested remedies. Let me at least point out some common sense things that are often overlooked when people go galloping after “natural” remedies and “holistic” medicine.

Because they are herbs, plants, does not mean they don't have side affects. Some do and its important to KNOW what we are taking and why.

An important point. All medicines, regardless of kind, regardless of origin, have side effects. There are no exceptions. What distinguishes a good medicine from a bad one are three points: 1. effectiveness, doing what is needed; 2. side effects and safety — basically not doing what we don’t want or need them to do, especially where this is harmful to the human system; 3. availability and cost. The first and third points go without saying. The second has to to with the type and severity of the side effects. Only those substances whose side effects are completely know and proved tolerable and relatively non-interacting and non-interfering can be used safely. This is why we have a scientific basis for our pharmaceuticals today.

I know personally two doctors, who said this to me. They did not learn about natural methods of treatment. They are taught to treat with drugs!!!! I worked in healthcare for years, and this is true.

This is a false dichotomy based on an oversimplification. All medicines, whether we call them “natural” or “drugs,” are in fact natural. They occur naturally or can be manufactured from materials that are naturally occurring. This is the nature of creation: there is nothing new under the sun.

The usual difference between “natural” remedies and “drugs” is the amount of purity, refinement and concentration of the effective ingredient.

I am not saying that meds don't work, but are they the best choice? not always.

The same can be said of any substance. But those substances that are commonly called “medications” have at least been laboratory proved to be effective, safe and available at a price which is affordable to many people, according to the criteria outlined above. It seems only reasonable that if someone wants to use a “natural” substance, it should be subjected to the same criteria and testing. Otherwise, it is a shot in the dark which could be worthless as medicine and, at least to some, actually harmful.

As has been pointed out in several posts, medical professionals must carry much of the blame for mistaken and irresponsible use of medications. No matter what kind of substance a particular medication is, it is bound to interact with something else somewhere along the line simply because of the complexity of the human organism.

I've noticed some mention of the concept of “Chi.” I once had a Catholic friend who was getting into Martial Arts and he used to mention "Chi" as if it were a normal part of life, like it was just a given. So, first of all, what exactly is it?

The word is of Chinese origin and means “energy.” Connotatively, it is vaguely like “spiritual power” in English. In other words, it is not a scientific term, but a traditional one used by people who, at least in former times, believed in mysterious forces which they thought were controlled by what westerners, for lack of a better term, have tended to call “demons.” These spiritual beings are not, however, styled as either good or evil; they simply exist and act, like the “spirits” or “souls” of the dead (recall that ancestor worship played a huge role in the history of China) and what we might call “angels,” except for the fact that they had no concept of an all-powerful and eternal God who creates and governs all that exists.

The problem with chi is not what it is, but what people in our day have made of it, through their New Age and neopagan ideologies. Here is a Vatican document on the whole New Age movement and how Catholic Christians should understand and view it. Your reference to the “Force” in Star Wars appears to be quite close to the concept of chi as I have encountered it in both ancient and modern texts. The fact that the word can have a religious meaning must be taken into account when considering whether and how to use it.

Now if the mythology and pseudo-religious connotations could be stripped away, it might be possible for Christians to study and make use of whatever portions of the ancient arts are worthwhile. My main concern is not that they were formerly (or even now) seen in a “spiritualist” light, but that there may be some scientific bases in them that could be used to advance the medical arts of the west. However, let us do so safely and wisely by testing everything, not just willy-nilly accepting something because it “might” work where nothing else is currently working.

By the way, you mention electrical currents. You should be aware that there are electrical currents throughout the human body. They run through the network of nerves, controlling muscles and many other parts of the body, and are also massively concentrated in the brain. I won’t say that the brain is just a humongous microprocessor, but as an oversimplification, that seems to be the closest human technology has approached so far to God’s awesome creation.

David

[Dave Armstrong]

This forum can't get bogged down in medical discussion, except insofar as it is directly tied into the faith somehow. This is the express desire of CHNI as a whole, not only your illustrious moderators. I have bosses, too.   We want to move forward to the more directly spiritual and pastoral and theological emphases that this forum is designed to serve. I merely gave one horror story of what my mother went through; I was not trying to start this whole discussion of holistic health up again.

Anyone who wants to read my revised comment that used to be in this spot, and additional thoughts of mine, can read the new post on my blog and comment there if they wish. My blog is different in several ways from this forum (as most of you know, no doubt!). But I don't wish to "advocate" the holistic philosophy here because it is beyond our purview and not my place in my moderator function.

The larger discussion relevant only when someone is wondering how to reconcile some practice or belief with the Catholic faith. That is clearly relevant, I think, to what we do and what our purpose is at CHNI.

[deborahssong]

Wow!  I just lost my post!!! bummer....I am NOT going to repeat that one. However I will say this.  David and dave, great info!  Dave, I admire what you did for your wife.  I know and understand. For I have been there myself and found so much help! I agree that chiropractors have been given a bad rap!  My friend who is a dr who teaches in a university, told me, with all of my previous health issues to see one and he recommended one.  yep! This is a highly respected dr!  He has truly helped me and my husband with some great info!  That worked!
      I will say this, a nurse has a specific call or duty. That is to care for people within the boundaries of medicine allowed.  I have no problem for a nurse to teach the church proper nutrition and healthy issues for a better life. However she is NOT a medical dr.  Must be careful what we allow to take place within, even if it comes in the guise as GOOD!  Thanks to all here. great posts!

[Dave Armstrong]

As I have said, "I respect few people more than medical doctors and nurses. They are usually extraordinary human beings." I have a problem with the giant systems that develop, the power and hubris involved, and the disdain for others outside of the system. It seems to be human nature to look down our noses at anyone who is different from us, and to not approach them with charity, but with suspicion.

We have to see the good and bad that can be found in all movements. That is as true of the holistic health movement as any other. As I wrote in my new blog paper, referred to above:

There is quackery to be found in holistic health circles (sometimes quite a bit in specific areas of it) and some goofy eastern religious stuff and fakes making money. That is true in all areas of life, so it comes as no surprise. We all must develop a proper appreciation for scientific support for these things, and not be taken in by charlatans out to make a buck or sell something that does nothing (back to the "snake oil" again!): merely acting as a placebo. . . .

I am 100% in favor of scientific method, and I detest all quackery and false religious elements, wherever they are found. Scientific verification is good and necessary in many ways. It's no different in terms of the verification of anything connected with holistic health.

This is why I've always said that we all need to do our own homework. With the massive resources now available in the Internet, without even having to take a trip to the library, there is less excuse for ignorance than ever.

[deborahssong]

Absolutely!  St. Peter said " to study and show ourselves approved". Doesnt just apply to scripture.  Well that goes for everything pertaining to our lives doesnt it?   We must know...FOR OURSELVES!   Thanks...God bless