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Catholic Jew
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Boonton, New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 26 |
| First Name: | Daniel | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Jewish Convert to Roman Catholicism |
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Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2007 03:49 pm |
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I thought that perhaps my conversion story might be of interest to some folks, so I will post a bit about it here.
I was born to a Jewish mother and a Lutheran father. But, interestingly, my Lutheran father actually had a Jewish mother, but his dad was Lutheran (theoretically making him a Jew too). The reason for that is that in Judaism, ones religion/ethnicity is determined matrilineally and not patrilineally. At any rate, my strong minded grandfather on my dads side insisted on raising my dad in the Lutheran faith and not the Jewish one. I think that had a lot to do with the fact that they had come from Germany in the early 30's and my grandfather had a lot of concern about what was going on over there. They visited Germany often, so there must have been some fear about my grandmothers background. Thank G-d, they got out before all hell broke loose over there.
On my mother's side, her parents were relatively unobservant Jews, only celebrating the major holidays like Pesach, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, etc. My mother was not too religious and only involved me in her religion to the extent that I was given an Orthodox bris at the age of 8 days. That hurt so bad that I could not walk for a year!  (I know - - - olde joke!)
My upbringing was completely secular. Neither my dad nor my ma pushed religion upon me. Chanukah and Christmas just meant Lionel Trains and other toys to me - - - nothing deeper. I did get some religous exposure from my grandparents on both sides, however. On my own volition, I studied the Torah, Hebrew and the Talmud at some point in time, but never found it to be much more than intellectually challenging. It was a good workout for the mind, but it did very little for me emotionially - spiritually.
For unknown and unexplained reasons, I was always infatuated by symbols of the Roman Catholic faith as a child. My fascination with Rosaries, Statues of Our Lady, Miraculous Medals and so forth could be described as bordering on a fetish in nature. Nonetheless, it all fascinated me and since my fascination came from the irrational side of my brain and not the logical side, it was very comforting to me to learn more of these things - - - and I did. I guess one could say that G-d sometimes works in strange ways.
When I was 22, I married a wonderful Italian Catholic woman. Shortly before the wedding, I converted to Roman Catholicism. Interestingly, it did not cause any ire from my family, of which I am very appreciative. I have heard horror stories from others who were not so lucky involving conversions from Judaism to any form of Christianity. It is often looked down upon by Jewish family members and friends. But, I was lucky!
So now, I am what I would call a Catholic Jew. You see, there is a concept that says "once a Jew, always a Jew". It is an important concept, and I can explain what it means if anyone wants me to explore that area of thought - - - but I do not want to protract this thread too much. So, my wife and I celebrate all of the Roman Catholic holidays as well as the major Jewish ones.
And thus it is befitting to say that our motif runs the gamut from Menorahs to Madonnas and Mezuzahs to Miraculous Medals! And yes, I wear both a Mogan David (Star of David) and a Rosary around my neck - - - which really confuses some people.
But, we both love it all and would not have it any other way!
Last edited on Sun Jul 1st, 2007 03:56 pm by Catholic Jew
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JasPax
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2007 05:55 pm |
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Daniel,
Very interesting account. It seems to me that the Catholic Church is the logical home for any Jew that converts to Christianity. The Eucharist is the New Covenant Passover Celebration.
Looks like you have the best of both worlds. Thanks for sharing.
God's Blessings to You,
____________________
James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2007 06:54 pm |
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| Thanks for sharing with us Daniel. It does seem that you have a very unique perspective. I know next to nothing about Judaism, not even the difference between the Torah and Talmud. But when I began to read about the early church fathers and some of the history of christianity it became obvious that there is a closer connection between the Jewish and Christian faiths than we realize.
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Catholic Jew
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Boonton, New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 26 |
| First Name: | Daniel | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Jewish Convert to Roman Catholicism |
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Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2007 07:54 pm |
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I am certainly no scholar on these matters, but I suspect that the connection between the Roman Catholic Church and Judaism exceeds that of the various Protestant sects and Judaism. After all, the universal church (the Catholic church) is directly descended from Jesus via Peter (Petrine doctrine) etc right on up through the hierarch today. And, the extensive and rich Cannon of the Catholic Church kind of reminds me a bit of the Talmud with many parallels. Obviously, the Church sits upon the foundation of the Jewish faith. Had there not been a Jewish faith, it would be hard to imagine the Catholic faith having developed and evolved in the beautiful manner in which it has.
ps - Credo Catholic - The Torah (loosely speaking) is the first five books of the old testament (referred to as the Tanakh in Judaism - - - not the old testament, since there is no recognition of the NT in that faith). This is also sometimes referred to as the five books of Moses. More loosely defined, the Torah is all that which was given by G-d through Moses to his people at Sinai, which included the written and oral word of G-d - - - all 613 mitzvahs. As for the Talmud, it is a codification of the oral word give by G-d to his people, but written down many generations after the actual event took place. It was assembled and agreed upon by a group of scholars (actually there are two Talmuds, but I will not get into that too much). The idea was that if these things were not put in writing, handing them down via word of mouth from generation to generation could ultimately mean that something might get lost over time.
Last edited on Sun Jul 1st, 2007 08:01 pm by Catholic Jew
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Credo Catholic
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| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2007 11:20 pm |
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| Most of us, myself included, would be spreading ourselves pretty thin to begin a major study of Judaism while we're still learning so much about Catholicism, but it would be enlightening to learn the similarities of the two. For instance, I have heard that the incense, the vestments, the candles burning, and certain prayers used during mass are directly inherited from the Jewish observance (don't know what to call the "worship service"). We know that Jesus, Mary and Joseph observed the laws and customs of their Jewish faith, even the fourth joyful mystery of the rosary is the presentation of the infant Jesus in the temple. I would like to find an easy to understand book about this topic. I have read Mike Aquilina's book about the Early Mass, and it touched on some of these issues.
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Catholic Jew
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 28th, 2007 |
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| First Name: | Daniel | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Jewish Convert to Roman Catholicism |
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Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2007 11:52 pm |
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Hi Credo Catholic,
Again, I must make the disclaimer that I am no expert in theology, but I will attempt to identify some potential parallels between the two religions in the areas that you mentioned.
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Quoting Credo Catholic:
"For instance, I have heard that the incense, the vestments, the candles burning, and certain prayers used during mass are directly inherited from the Jewish observance (don't know what to call the "worship service")."
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Incense: I believe that the Torah makes numerous references to the use of spices as part of the sacrificial rituals that took place on the Temple Mount - - - references to creating odors pleasing unto G-d are something that I recall, but I could be mistaken. So, that could be a parallel
Candles: The 7 branched Menorah (unlike the 9 branched Menorah used to celebrate Chanukah) were an important part of the Temple Rite. I recall that references are made to it in the first five books (Torah). Also, it is Jewish custom to light a Yahrzeit candle in memory of a deceased loved on on the anniversary of their death. Jews do that and I still do that. I have met other Catholics who also follow that tradition. Of course, there is also the Shabbos candles lit every Friday night representing the light that G-d brings into our lives, especially on the day of rest.
Prayers: Jewish prayers are pretty simple in general. The Shema Yisrael is the most important one, (Hear Oh Israel, The Lord our G-d, the Lord Is One" - - - etc). and many other blessings follow a common format. The blessing said when kissing a Mezuzah is similar in some ways to the sound of some Catholic prayers - "May G-d Protect my Commings and Goings, Now and Forever, Amen." It reminds me a little bit of crossing oneself having a similar cadence as in "In the Name of the Father, and of the Son and the Holy Ghost, Amen."
I guess one could spend a few years analyzing this topic which is well beyond my basic knowledge and scholarship. But it is very interesting.
Vestments: Of course the Priests of the Temple wore specifically prescribed vestments, not unlike the practice that our Church Hierarchy follows.
Daniel
ps - Importantly, it is worth noting that the sanctity of life is an utmost priority both in both Orthodox Judaism and Roman Catholicism. As a matter of fact, it is required that an observant Jew break the Sabbath when it comes to assisting someone who's life may be in peril.
Last edited on Mon Jul 2nd, 2007 12:07 am by Catholic Jew
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
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| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Mon Jul 2nd, 2007 12:18 am |
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There is also much similiarity between the prayer of the Mass that says, "Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer which earth has given and human hands have made" and the "Baruch attah Adonai, Elohaynu melech ha olam" which means "Blessed are You, our God, King of the universe" followed by specific thanks for bread or the fruit of the vine such as "ha-motzi lechen min ha-aretz" for "who brings forth bread from the ground." This Jewish prayer is used during the Passover seder. Indeed!
Jill
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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Catholic Jew
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| First Name: | Daniel | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Jewish Convert to Roman Catholicism |
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Posted: Mon Jul 2nd, 2007 12:23 am |
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Jill,
Good observation; that had not occurred to me, and I agree.
Daniel
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Mon Jul 2nd, 2007 12:25 am |
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Marsha, in addition to what has already been said, some parts of the Mass, especially the basic idea of scripture readings followed by the homily parallels the order of the Jewish synagogue service. Also, the text of the offertory, in the current Roman liturgy, follows the Passover ritual very closely.
Catholic Jew wrote:Importantly, it is worth noting that the sanctity of life is an utmost priority in both Orthodox Judaism and Roman Catholicism.
Quite true. Unfortunately, as we often experience among our Protestant brothers, so also the Reform branch of Judaism tends to have a different viewpoint.
David
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susiedear
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| Location: | Twin Cities, Minnesota USA |
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| First Name: | Elizabeth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Pentecostal / Evangelical / Catholic! |
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 08:42 am |
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I've been wondering lately about the Jewish roots of our Catholic faith as well. One of the recent OT readings briefly mentioned the "feast of unleavened bread." What was that? Did Jesus establish the Eucharistic because unleavened bread was important to His very first followers? And I read the chapters in Deuteronomy that mention the order of worship and the materials that were to be used, including incense, vestments, the specifics of the altar, the readings -- and as I read, it occured to me that I was reading about the Mass. There is a book of conversion stories by Jewish converts called Sweet Honey from the Rock that I must get. This is a fascinating topic because it expands the history of our Catholic foundation all the more.
So, Daniel, I look forward to reading more about the unique perspective you bring to our dear Catholic faith!
Elizabeth
____________________
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. St. Augustine
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Catholic Jew
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| First Name: | Daniel | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Jewish Convert to Roman Catholicism |
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 11:07 am |
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Hi Elizabeth,
Quoting:
"One of the recent OT readings briefly mentioned the "feast of unleavened bread." What was that?"
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That would be Pesach or what is more commonly referred to as Passover which occurs near Easter time. Matzoh, which is the only type of wheat product allowed during Pesach, had not risen because the Jews did not have time to allow for that to occur as they escaped from Egypt. It is interesting to note that Jesus had not yet risen yet either at that point in the yearly calendar.
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"Did Jesus establish the Eucharistic because unleavened bread was important to His very first followers?"
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The last supper was a Pesach celebration and thus, unleavened bread would have been used there by Jesus. Certainly, unleavened bread is fundamentally important to Jews during Pesach, as it was back in the times of old when the Jews fled Egypt - - - it was what sustained them for a period of time in the desert.
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"And I read the chapters in Deuteronomy that mention the order of worship and the materials that were to be used, including incense, vestments, the specifics of the altar, the readings -- and as I read, it occured to me that I was reading about the Mass."
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Well, I am not sure about the history of that aspect of things, but logically it would make sense that the Priestly hierarchy of our Church would have adopted the Priestly customs practiced in the Temple by pre-rabbinical Jews (which would have been before 70 CE {Common Era or AD}. I wish that I knew more about this aspect of things to share with you. Hopefully, someone else knows will more about it and share it with us.
Last edited on Wed Jul 4th, 2007 11:16 am by Catholic Jew
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Juan
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 11:10 pm |
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Hi Daniel,
Welcome to the forum! I've read the other messages but if you explained the "once a Jew, always a Jew" concept, I missed it.
Sincerely,
Juan
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Catholic Jew
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Posted: Fri Jul 6th, 2007 12:30 am |
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Hi Juan,
The "Once a Jew, always a Jew" concept probably comes from two angles; one is based on heritage while the other is based on law and practical concerns. Keep in mind that "Jewish" is both a Religion and a Heritage (in a manner of speaking, I guess it could be considered something like a "tribe" from the Heritage perspective of things).
So, the idea is that if your mother was Jewish, then you are considered to be Jewish by halachic (religious) law (because of that matrilineal lineage). Also, if a person received an Orthodox Jewish conversion from another religion, that person would be considered to be a Jew not only by religious law, but by Israeli secular law. But, that conversion would have had to have been "Orthodox". I do not think that Reform or Conservative conversions are recognized by Israeli secular law.
So, no matter what religion that a "Jew" may convert to, he or she would still be considered by the Jewish community to be a Jew, only an apostate one. He or she would also maintain the "right of return" to Israel*. The practical reason for this would be the possibility of another Holocaust situation arising wherein a person defined as a Jew might need a safe harbor and Israel is that place.Does that make sense?
I hope the above is a correct interpretation of religious and secular law, but at least it is my understanding of the situation. I am sure that there are many nuances that may be quite complicated and beyond a fundamental explanation of the concept.
IHS
Daniel
*Note: I have heard some scholars debate that point.
Last edited on Fri Jul 6th, 2007 12:43 am by Catholic Jew
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