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Diamantina
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| Joined: | Fri Dec 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | West Covina, California USA |
| Posts: | 3 |
| First Name: | Katheryn | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic: chrismated in Orthodox Church: reverted to Catholicism |
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Posted: Sat Dec 8th, 2007 06:19 am |
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I was baptized into the Catholic Church when I was one month old. My father was (and is) a lapsed Catholic: his mother was quite devout. My mother was brought up as a Methodist, but does not attend any church. Neither of my two younger brothers were ever baptized: I suspect that my baptism was meant as a gesture to my grandmother to reconcile her to my parents' marriage in Las Vegas.
When I was 10 years old (in 1977), a classmate whose father was a Church of Christ minister invited me to her home. She gave me a King James Bible and invited me to attend services at her church. When I told my mother about this, she said, "You were baptized Catholic. If you want to go to church, go to the Catholic church." So on Sunday mornings, Mom would drop me off at the local suburban parish just before the 10:30 Mass and would go to the nearby grocery store to shop while I attended Mass. At 11:30 AM, my mother would pick me up in front of the church and take me home.
I liked the Mass -- the ritual of it, the soothing Irish accent of the priest who frequently officiated at the Mass -- but I felt lonely in the crowd. I took the initiative to attend CCD classes, and I received the Eucharist for the first time (excepting one time when one of my brothers and I illicitly had Communion when we snuck into a Communion line: we looked old enough to receive the Eucharist, so there was no comment made) at an Easter Vigil Mass. (I was not confirmed at that time, however.)
As I entered my teens, my attendance at Mass became desultory and erratic: I thought that the Mass was boring. Since nobody else at home was going to Mass (my parents did not attend Mass, not even at Christmas and Easter) and nobody had instilled in me that deliberately missing Sunday Mass without good reason was a mortal sin, I did not feel guilty. I joined the Rainbow Girls (a Masonic-affiliated club for girls) and occasionally went to Protestant services at the churches that the local Rainbow Girls' officers attended. Since I never became a major Rainbow Girls officer, I did not have the opportunity to invite the other Rainbow Girls to a Mass.
When I went away to college, I attended both Catholic Masses and Protestant services on a regular basis, and was confirmed in the Catholic Church. Confirmation lessons were basically several rap sessions on religious topics: in retrospect, I think they were lax. Then, at the beginning of my sophomore year, I became suicidally depressed and was hospitalized: I did not go attend religious services while in the hospital and did not feel particularly guilty about it. Nobody told me that Masses were available, and I did not think to ask.
Soon I was obliged to return home and I went to the hometown community college part-time. In high school I had attended Liturgy once or twice at a local Greek Orthodox parish: I was very taken with the Liturgy, but felt out of place because I was not Greek. In late 1989 I found a nearby Orthodox mission with an English-language Liturgy. The priest (a convert from Pentecostalism, though he was partly Greek) was youngish, charming, charismatic. His quiet but friendly wife (a convert from Catholicism and a former novice with the Little Sisters of the Poor) and four darling little children also appealed to me. I saw them as the family I wished I had: the priest was like a young uncle or older brother. I decided to take private catechism lessons with the priest (I remember thinking "but this is what I already believe!"), and I was chrismated on the feast of the Dormition (=Assumption) in 1990.
More to come....
Last edited on Sat Dec 8th, 2007 07:25 am by Diamantina
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Diamantina
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | West Covina, California USA |
| Posts: | 3 |
| First Name: | Katheryn | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic: chrismated in Orthodox Church: reverted to Catholicism |
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Posted: Sat Dec 8th, 2007 11:01 am |
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Once I was chrismated, I became a pillar of the small Orthodox mission parish -- church secretary, teaching religion to the priest's children, etc. I spent a summer volunteering at an Orthodox shelter for homeless families. What I did not entirely realize at the time was the shaky status of the Orthodox jurisdiction in which the priest had been ordained -- his bishop was an episcopus vagante of some notoriety.
After a couple of years, the mission had to close and the priest wanted to find a new posting. Unfortunately, the local Serbian Orthodox hierarchy did not accept the validity of the priest's ordination. The priest, after some soul-searching, decided to become a Lutheran along with his family. He is now a Missouri Synod Lutheran minister.
Meanwhile, I decided to join a Serbian Orthodox parish that was not too far away. I joined the choir and sang my little soprano heart out in the Liturgy. No questions about my Orthodoxy, thank goodness. However, although I loved the Liturgy and was pleased by the kindness of my fellow parishioners and the parish priest, I felt a bit alienated because I was neither a Serb nor married to a Serb. I came to realize that I probably would not marry, and that traditional Orthodox monastic life was not for me (even if my health were not a factor). I regularly visited other Orthodox parishes in addition to the Serbian parish -- a ROCOR parish, a Western Rite Antiochian Orthodox parish, even the local Greek parish -- and found good aspects in each.
By this time I had managed to earn my BA and go on to grad school. My field of research was 20th-century Brazilian history. There were no Orthodox parishes close by the university, except for a small OCA mission that I attended a few times and felt a bit emotionally distant. I was close enough to home to return a couple of weekends a month. Going to Liturgy was becoming a chore to be added on to my calendar.
When I visited Brazil for two weeks during summer vacation, I went to a Catholic Mass in Ouro Preto (the nearest Orthodox parish was a couple of hours away in Belo Horizonte). I loved it. I regretted that I could not receive Communion, as Orthodox guidelines state that Orthodox must not receive the Eucharist from non-Orthodox priests. (I did not realize that the Catholic Church would have had no problem with my receiving Communion.)
After I returned to the USA, disaster slowly struck: another episode of depression, the worst since my freshman year over 15 years previously. My grades suffered, and I was dismissed from the program.
I had begun to look into Catholicism again, but was not quite ready to take the plunge until I went on retreat with a secular institute. (I had gone to the vocations office, concealing my Orthodoxy but not my health history: they seemed fairly convinced that I might have a vocation to consecrated life but not in a religious community, and recommended that I look into secular institutes.) I confessed to a kindly Jesuit priest (it was two months since my last Orthodox confession, which he accepted as a true confession) and took Communion. I had been chrismated in the Orthodox Church 13 years before.
The nearest Eastern Catholic parishes were over 20 miles away from home, and I could only attend occasionally. Although at first I thought that the Novus Ordo Mass was not reverent enough, I became active in the local Roman Catholic parish (lector, Eucharistic minister, religious education teacher) and was received as a Lay Carmelite (of the Ancient Observance). God willing, I will be professed next year.
At the Nicene Creed, I am still silent when the rest of the congregation says that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and still think that the Pope (despite the fact that the last 150 years or so popes have been admirably holy men) deserves primacy of honor but not of power. I have trouble with the concept of suffering in Purgatory. I was too Western in my mindset to make a good Orthodox, even though the Orthodox Church gave me a love of the Mother of God, the Psalms, the Epistles and the Eucharist that I had not been taught in the Catholic Church of the 1970s and 1980s. I still venerate Orthodox saints, such as St. Elizabeth the New Martyr and St. Seraphim of Sarov, alongside Catholic saints. Icons still seem the best form of religious art to me: I still have a wee bit of trouble with statues. I think that married men should be allowed to be ordained to the priesthood in the Latin Rite (but keep the episcopate for the celibates and the widowers). But all these are small quibbles.
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat Dec 8th, 2007 08:39 pm |
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That is a great story, and we're glad to have you here with us. For the record:
Diamantina wrote: At the Nicene Creed, I am still silent when the rest of the congregation says that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son
Eastern Catholics do not say the filoque. The Catholic Church accepts the Creed either way.
and still think that the Pope (despite the fact that the last 150 years or so popes have been admirably holy men) deserves primacy of honor but not of power.
Remember that the Pope exercises his power as Patriarch of the West. The other patriarchs all left in schism in or about 1054, so his jurisdiction has been unquestioned. Both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have indicated their willingness to open the role of the pope in a reunited Church to discussion, and that discussion has begun. I suspect we will eventually see an agreement where the patriarchs will maintain jurisdiction within their own Churches, with the Pope exercising a role as more of an overseer who would step in to the other Churches only in extreme cases, and only with the consent of the other patriarchs. But that is strictly my opinion.
I have trouble with the concept of suffering in Purgatory.
St. Catherine of Genoa, a western mystic, said that Purgatory was a place of unimaginable joy because those in Purgatory were guaranteed salvation. The Church teaches us that the primary suffering of Purgatory is the separation from the Beatific Vision, and the knowledge that the separation is caused by our own sins. It's really not too different from the Eastern concept of Theosis. We just give it a name, while Eastern Christians don't.
I still venerate Orthodox saints, such as St. Elizabeth the New Martyr and St. Seraphim of Sarov, alongside Catholic saints.
I believe Eastern Catholics share the same venerations. In my own area, we venerate a young lady, Charlene Richard, who is a candidate for canoniztion. Of course, there are millions (perhaps billions) of unnamed saints.
Icons still seem the best form of religious art to me: I still have a wee bit of trouble with statues.
Again, Eastern Catholics would agree.
I think that married men should be allowed to be ordained to the priesthood in the Latin Rite (but keep the episcopate for the celibates and the widowers).
Again, Eastern Catholics agree. (And by the way, so do I.)
But all these are small quibbles.
Actually, the beliefs you have expressed in this paragraph are not quibbles at all. They are fully in line with Catholic teaching, except perhaps for the authority of the pope, and that is currently and officially being reexamined at this time.
Welcome to the Catholic Church, and welcome to the forum. We're glad to have you here with us.
Have you ever looked into the Eastern Catholic Churches? I know they would love to have you attend, and you might well find their spirituality more compatible with what you are accustomed to. But regardless of which Catholic church you decide to attend, we're glad to have you with us.
Last edited on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 09:50 pm by CajunRick
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Diamantina
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | West Covina, California USA |
| Posts: | 3 |
| First Name: | Katheryn | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic: chrismated in Orthodox Church: reverted to Catholicism |
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 02:53 am |
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CajunRick wrote:Have you ever looked into the Eastern Catholic Churches? I know they would love to have you attend, and you might well find their spirituality more compatible with what you are accustomed to. But regardless of which Catholic church you decide to attend, we're glad to have you with us. Yes, I have looked into the Eastern Catholic Churches. However, the nearest Byzantine or Melkite parish is over 20 miles away -- a prohibitive distance, since I do not have a car. (Other Eastern Catholic parishes are even further away.) It would be possible for me to go to Liturgy once a month, but the rest of the time I would be obliged to attend Mass at the local Roman Catholic parish.
I think that I would have become a Byzantine Catholic instead of Orthodox if Eastern Catholic parishes were as prevalent in the east San Gabriel Valley as Orthodox parishes. I don't know why there are more Orthodox parishes than Eastern Catholic parishes in my neck of the woods.
By the way, my paternal grandfather's family were Acadians from Prince Edward Island -- lore has it that my ancestors managed to hide out in the woods of the Island instead of being caught up in le Grande Derangement and deported to Louisiana. So nice to meet up with a fellow Acadian on this forum 
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Intercessor
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| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 859 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 10:19 am |
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Katheryn, welcome to the Forum!
I enjoyed reading about your journey and look forward to your contributions.
Becky
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"If our charity is arrested by the difficulties encountered in dealing with our neighbor, . . . our relations with our brethren are not regulated by our love of God, but by our love of self." Divine Intimacy p. 781, Fr. Gabriel, O.C.D.
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 11:29 am |
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Diamantina wrote: CajunRick wrote:Have you ever looked into the Eastern Catholic Churches? I don't know why there are more Orthodox parishes than Eastern Catholic parishes in my neck of the woods.
Catholics can obtain sacraments at any Catholic church, so there is less need for parishes of a particular Church. The nearest Eastern Catholic parish to me is some 350 miles away. (A biritual priest does celebrate the Divine Liturgy at a Latin chapel in New Orleans, about 60 miles away, but their Maronite chapel was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina and has not been rebuilt.)
By the way, my paternal grandfather's family were Acadians from Prince Edward Island -- lore has it that my ancestors managed to hide out in the woods of the Island instead of being caught up in le Grande Derangement and deported to Louisiana.
"Deported to Louisiana" hardly describes a group of impoverished homeless expelled from their own land and kicked from port to port until finding a home more than 30 years later, after governments tried their very best to exterminate them. The Acadian Odyssey is described in an article by Jim Bradshaw of the Lafayette, Louisiana, Daily Advertiser, distilled from hundreds of pages of documents and historical records, most of which are available online. You can read the article here.
Interestingly, it was the Catholic Spanish government of Louisiana that made the Acadians welcome here. You will no doubt find the history of your ancestor's cousins quite enlightening. Were such an attempt at genocide be attempted today, I would hope there would be an international uproar. And although it is not stated in the article, an important cause of the original expulsion is that my ancestors refused to renouce their Catholic faith.
So nice to meet up with a fellow Acadian on this forum
So happy to have you here with us. Too many cooks may spoil the broth, but more Acadians just liven the party! 
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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thiscatholicjourney
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 7th, 2006 |
| Location: | Reno, Nevada USA |
| Posts: | 34 |
| First Name: | Amber | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | From non-denominational to Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 01:02 pm |
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Diamantina wrote: At the Nicene Creed, I am still silent when the rest of the congregation says that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and still think that the Pope (despite the fact that the last 150 years or so popes have been admirably holy men) deserves primacy of honor but not of power. I have trouble with the concept of suffering in Purgatory. I was too Western in my mindset to make a good Orthodox, even though the Orthodox Church gave me a love of the Mother of God, the Psalms, the Epistles and the Eucharist that I had not been taught in the Catholic Church of the 1970s and 1980s. I still venerate Orthodox saints, such as St. Elizabeth the New Martyr and St. Seraphim of Sarov, alongside Catholic saints. Icons still seem the best form of religious art to me: I still have a wee bit of trouble with statues. I think that married men should be allowed to be ordained to the priesthood in the Latin Rite (but keep the episcopate for the celibates and the widowers). But all these are small quibbles.
Diamantina, I will keep you in my prayers as I know that some things are difficult to accept. However, it's important to know that we must trust in the Church's authority to bind and loose ("I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" - Matthew 16:19) and, as Catholics, we are bound to believe all that the Church teaches:
Can. 750 1. A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.
2. Each and every thing which is proposed definitively by the magisterium of the Church concerning the doctrine of faith and morals, that is, each and every thing which is required to safeguard reverently and to expound faithfully the same deposit of faith, is also to be firmly embraced and retained; therefore, one who rejects those propositions which are to be held definitively is opposed to the doctrine of the Catholic Church.
Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.
Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it. --Code of Canon Law
I had some of the same issues you had when I was first examining Catholicism but by God's grace I was able to accept the Church's authority on such matters. May God give you the grace to overcome the struggle you have with these issues so that you may be Catholic in the fullest way!
Peace be with you!
Last edited on Tue Dec 11th, 2007 01:03 pm by thiscatholicjourney
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