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Kim M.
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 417 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 03:35 pm |
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Hello all!
I've been a Christian since I was 27. That's around 18 years. I came to Christ through watching the 700 Club after hearing Pat Robertson and Sheila Walsh explain what grace was. Growing up, I was exposed to different forms of Protestantism. My parents weren't church goers, but they let me visit friends' churches, mainly Baptist. I went to a Methodist school and a Christian school for a time, mainly because the public schools were so terrible. But I never really had a good foundation built under me. Only a little here and a little there.
So I rebeled in my teens, to my parents' horror, and did many things I am now fully ashamed of. So God's grace was a very beautiful thing to me once I understood it. Before coming to Christ, I married twice, and had 2 children. My second marriage was in the PCUSA church my husband was raised in. I was a "Sunday Morning Christian", if you will. Live it up during the week and get the warm fuzzies on Sunday morning. Not much spiritual substance there, although I had a nominal understanding of Christ. Not enough to change my life, though.
It was due to a move away from family and friends to a lonely place many states away that God wooed me to Himself. I had dabbled a bit in some New Age thinking and occultism (not much, but I was searching for meaning). Once I was born again I could not get enough of Jesus. I ate his Word like a starving animal and wanted to be around others who were as excited about Him as I was. I figured all Christians basically agreed on things, so it was just a matter of finding the ones who were the most on fire for Him. In that time, I had a lot of different experiences within Protestantism. Most were good, but some left me wanting and full of questions.
Within 6 months of joining a big church I became aware of errors being taught there (health/wealth gospel stuff). When I tried discussing what I'd found with others at the church, all of a sudden I was looked at as an outsider and a troublemaker. It was with great sadness that I and my family left that church. The clincher, I think was when after telling a fellow church member about how we lost our dog to illness (we were very distraught), he said, "Don't make a negative confession!". Oh, good grief! That was the fruit of the health/wealth gospel?
So we moved on to a lovely Church of God (Cleveland, TN) where we met many wonderful believers. God blessed us greatly there, and I feel that our experiences there were like a balm to our souls. We grew a lot there. But we wanted to be near family again. My husband accepted a job offer where we would move out of state to where we live now (which is closer to family). So we said goodbye and set out.
Our church experiences here have been a bit of a roller coaster ride. We were part of an Assemblies of God church that I'd rather forget about, except that I met my best friend there. Then we moved on to a PCA church which we enjoyed for a time. But I yearned for a more contemporary setting (before it was "cool") and we became part of a Calvary Chapel for many, many years. In all this time, we had 3 more children. At some point, I grew weary of all the choruses and the "cool" atmosphere and yearned to be more revert in worship. So we went back to a PCA church (a different one closer to home) and have been there for a couple of years now.
I admit that I have not wanted to get involved much since being in this new church because I am dealing with a lot of confusion about doctrines and how "church" is supposed to play out, especially here in America. I've just been so dissatisfied with present day Protestantism, in general.
Recently, a fellow Evangelical blogger I read announced her decision to enter the Catholic Church. Up until then I had been attracted to Catholicism in a way, especially around Christmas when we finally got to bless the Virgin Mary without being seen as idolators (said tongue in cheek). But otherwise, I was ignorant of it. When she said she no longer believed in the 5 solas, I thought "What?? Sacrilege!"
I pursued this thought with interest, though, because of my growing dissatisfaction with Protestantism, and have been awakened to a whole different way of looking at things. When I allowed my mind to be open to being wrong on some things, I found out that maybe the Protestants didn't have it all together on even the core stuff after all. In fact, it was due to reading many Reformed blogs that I realized there was a great deal of disagreement even over the central doctrines. I had always assumed the core stuff was at least agreed upon within Christendom, but I've since found this to not necessarily be the case. The Scriptures certainly can frustrate me, so I can see why there is such disagreement. Just a simple reading can bring up lots of questions. I was so frustrated that I began to question my faith. I wondered how our powerful God could let such doctrinal chaos reign. Why was everything so confusing? I thought at some point somewhere there must have been agreement. This set me on a journey to see what the early church fathers had to say. What did they understand?
I began to hope that maybe I would finally get some answers and start experiencing that fullness of the faith I kept hearing about.
So here I am, in fear and trembling, tiptoeing into Catholicism. I have some big concerns that I must deal with before I can proceed any further, which is one reason I am posting here. Since there are Protestants in various stages of conversion here, I thought I'd ask for some honest answers from those who have already dealt with these issues. I'll cover the biggy issue for me right now and will try to cover others in future posts unless I find answers on this forum first.
The gay priest issue: I know this is not a subject anyone likes to talk about, but I must. I have a teenage son and I worry that he would be at risk if I proceeded to join the church. Just how in danger are our teens, especially the boys? I read Rod Dreher's blog (Crunchy Cons) and he put up a post
http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/02/the-gay-priest-problem-1.html
that literally stopped me in my tracks. He is a Catholic who left to join the Orthodox Church over this issue. He found a pedophile priest within his own church, and as a journalist, is privy to inside information. If the issue is as big as he and his commentors say it is, what do I do to protect my children? I would absolutely die if I was the reason my children were harmed. Can you understand this mother's heart? Would I be better off staying a Protestant until my children are grown? I hate even asking such a question, but I'm being honest about my thoughts.
I would appreciate honest answers. This is where I am now. I see many, many happy Catholics out there. So I am hoping it is not as big a problem as it is portrayed in that post. But I'm not going to bury my head in the sand over this issue just so I can be a part of the Catholic Church.
I assume honesty is respected here, which is why I've opened my heart to you all. Thanks for any help or wisdom you can provide!
Blessings...
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"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 03:46 pm |
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Kim, we are glad to have you with us, and we'll do our best to answer your questions honesty and fairly. I'm at work right now (I volunteer on the forum) but I'm sure others will respond to your question, and if you look around the forum, you'll see that it's been discussed frequently before.
Honesty and sincerity are all that are required here. We're happy to have you join us, and we'll do our best to help you on your faith journey, wherever it might lead.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Kim M.
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 417 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 03:48 pm |
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Thanks Rick! My hubby is from Louisiana...Hammond, to be exact. We met in Slidell. I lived for a time in LaCombe. 
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 03:50 pm |
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Kim M. wrote: Thanks Rick! My hubby is from Louisiana...Hammond, to be exact. We met in Slidell. I lived for a time in LaCombe.
So even though you're a yankee (that is, from north of I-10), you'll recognize Kermie's shirt and understand my references to things like beignets and cafe au lait at Cafe du Monde!
It's a little late, but I hope you had a happy Mardi Gras!
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Prayerie Pal
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| Joined: | Sat Mar 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Omaha, Nebraska USA |
| Posts: | 245 |
| First Name: | susie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian,Methodist, Charismatic Catholic, Pentecostal, Evangelical, and now Truly Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 03:57 pm |
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wow. I don't know all that much about Rod Dreher, but if he did leave the CC because of this, I find that very sad, no matter what "info" he gets. I can't believe the percentage is higher in the CC than that anywhere else. I personally would be more concerned in the Evangelical world where I know in our small town and smaller that the Youth Pastor(s) were sexual offenders, and when finally caught, everyone was rightly shocked, but yet, it was just so overwhelming to them, that such clean cut, good decent guys could do this. Youth pastors were probably never suspected like priests are. To be so shocked that a youth pastor could do such a thing was, in my opinion, putting one's head in the sand.
Our youth pastor from our former church was guilty of sexual advances to an underage female(s)....then moved on to Iowa and only after who knows how many offenses, was finally caught. The stats I'm sure are available. I know this sounds horribly cliche, but "you don't leave Peter because of Judas." And you don't leave Jesus because of Peter...who sinned from the "get go." No institution is "SAFE" from sinners, even the vilest, but there are hundred of thousands of priests who are holy, orthodox, men and if I had sons still at home, I'd have no qualms joining the Church Jesus Himself established.
There's no other insititution out there that can claim to be His Church. Maybe Rod's found the answer and the perfect place to worship in spirit and in Truth, but now that he's there, it's not perfect anymore. We all have sinned and fallen short. I'm not making light of this gross and vile evil, please don't misunderstand me, but I know many priests and they are great. They need our prayers, not us leaving in fear to find a place where everything is safe, sanitized and sin-free. I'd be more afraid of a public school teacher, or baseball coach to be honest. The only ones they go after and those that get the most media attention are priests, for the CC is hated above all else. The others are way up there in numbers,too, no doubt, but they're not covered to near the extent. By the way, I'd like to say, WELCOME KIM M. I hope you'll find the TIBER refreshing to your toes and I do hope you'll take the plunge, and not let fear keep you from swimming to the other side. She is HOLY MOTHER CHURCH and she's made up of sinners. She's also the hospital where sinners can find salvation....Thanks be to God!
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 04:11 pm by Prayerie Pal
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God gave us memory so we could have roses in winter.
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Pani Rose
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 04:01 pm |
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Welcome to the forum and the wonderful adventure you are on. Glory to GOD!
As one who came from a Protestant background, I can assure you problem you are refering to is there also. Only it is not spoken of as much, since there is no 'central authority' it is not as clear. However, one priest wrong is one too many. And, the percentage of priest who have done wrong is what gets the attention - not the many totally awesome priests who are there, day in and day out serving the Lord answering his call to feed his flocks. THESE PREISTS DO AN AWESOME JOB!
A lot has been set into place to protect the children now. Those priests, for the most part, are from the seminaries of the 60's and 70's - so sad. So many crazy things entered the Church after Vatican II, but it was because of man and not God's intentions for Vatican II.
As a deacon, my husband went through a battery of tests including time with psychiatrist, during his time of decernment process - all this required by the diocese. Then, since we are Ruthenian, serving the Melkites, and ultimately in a Roman diocese - ok total confusion here, or so it seems - police checks were run on him by all three diocese through local, state, and federal means. So they know there is nothing hidden from view. We really didn't have much of a problem in the Eastern Churchs, but caution is still taken. Also, the program set up by the Eastern bishops was actually developed by an FBI person. (Anyone that works with children now, in any fashion, has to go through security checks)
I guess what I am trying to let you know, is all these men have been checked and rechecked, even the ones that are there, and I would think that overall we are getting the finest men there are. Mistakes were made, sadly, but hopefully the Church has made the corrections necessary. There may still be some out there, but I would think they are running for cover.
I am sure there is more to be said in the subject by those of the Roman Church, but my two cents anyway.
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
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| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 04:06 pm |
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| Kim, regarding gay priests, sadly, from time to time, gay priests as well as pedophiles and adulters in the ministry can be found in just about any denomination. Pedophiles and adulterers have shown up in Protestant denominations as much if not more than in the Catholic Church. The difference is that, somehow, the Catholics offenders have been much more visible while the Protestants have managed to keep that sort of thing quiet more easily. Even though someone goes into the ministry, or priesthood, they are still human beings and subject to human failings although they should be much more willing to go quickly to God for forgiveness and guidance. Despite all this, I have always liked the old saying that "the attitude of the priest does NOT affect the efficacy of the Mass". Also, God will, eventually, deal with unrepentent people who commit sinful acts against others. What I would suggest for ANY parent in ANY Christian or Jewish denomination, in the Muslim world, in any other religion, or any any secular area of life, is to be alert, watch over your children and teenagers as much as you personally can, even when in church, pray fervently for them when you cannot watch over them. Here in our area, in a large protestant church, last year, a teenage supposedly Christian youth group turned into a gang which was committing criminal acts and harrassing other young people. The Police finally caught them at it and made a number of arrests and did an extensive investigation to "root out" the main perpetrators and get things straightened out, in cooperation with the denomination involved. This just reminds us that the Evil One prowls around, seeking whom he may devour and that we must continually be prayerfully alert. The lectionary reading for the day yesterday described the end times and how Jesus will deal with those who have been done evil and been unrepentant. Someday, Jesus will "settle the hash", so to speak, of those who have done evil. Meanwhile, we must walk prayerfully with Him and continue to be alert.
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Prayerie Pal
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| First Name: | susie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian,Methodist, Charismatic Catholic, Pentecostal, Evangelical, and now Truly Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 04:15 pm |
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What I would suggest for ANY parent in ANY Christian or Jewish denomination, in the Muslim world, in any other religion, or any any secular area of life, is to be alert, watch over your children and teenagers as much as you personally can, even when in church, pray fervently for them when you cannot watch over them.
Well said. AMEN!
____________________
God gave us memory so we could have roses in winter.
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Kim M.
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 417 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 04:24 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: Kim M. wrote: Thanks Rick! My hubby is from Louisiana...Hammond, to be exact. We met in Slidell. I lived for a time in LaCombe.
So even though you're a yankee (that is, from north of I-10), you'll recognize Kermie's shirt and understand my references to things like beignets and cafe au lait at Cafe du Monde!
It's a little late, but I hope you had a happy Mardi Gras!
lol Oh yes! We love beignets! Made them ourselves even! And I have gotten to enjoy a cuppa at Cafe du Monde, as well. And believe it or not, we found King Cakes here in Georgia, although we got a real one from an Italian bakery in Hammond when my hubby visited his mother recently. Can't beat the real thing! You can keep the heat and humidity, though. But bring on the food! 
Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome! I know predators can be found in Protestant churches, too. Having never set foot in a Catholic Church for worship (only for a homeschooling event), I don't know how much "alone time" teens have with priests as opposed to youth leaders. To be honest, I have a very negative view of youth groups, in general, from our experiences with our now-grown daughters' Protestant youth groups. I haven't been in any hurry to shove my up-and-coming teens into the youth group scene because of it. I don't know how different Catholic Church activities are. Do your teens have to participate in a youth group if you join the Catholic Church? Are there other opportunities that provide less intimate contact, if that makes any sense?
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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Intercessor
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| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 05:03 pm |
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Hello, Kim. Welcome to the CHNI Forum.
I understand your anxieties. The others are right, however. Your children are not truly "safe" in any church in any denomination or religion. We live in a depraved culture. Children and teenagers and adults steep themselves in pornography (I don't think that's too dramatic for the fare on network TV now.) on TV, in movies, print media, and the Internet. Even young people from supposedly religious families dress provocatively or disgracefully. Young people are being taught that it is wrong to criticize homosexual behavior and that oral sex isn't really sex, and is therefore acceptable outside marriage.
Parents need to bathe a child in prayer daily. We need to go as chaperones on church youth activities. We should teach our children that evil or troubled persons can infiltrate any church and sometimes rise to positions of authority. Kids are capable of handling this kind of conversation. They need to know to trust their instincts if the youth pastor or the church bus driver or the priest is making them feel uncomfortable. A parent has to be the child's ally.
Little children should not be sent through a building alone to go to the restroom. All it takes is one teenager, or one adult, to bring disaster to a small child sent to the restroom alone, through the hallways or down into the basement. It has happened in my community to a pre-schooler who did indeed know the way to the restroom but was defenseless against a troubled teenager.
If I were rearing a child now, I would be very careful indeed about leaving my child alone with anyone; and I would be attending a teenager's church functions myself as a chaperone, rather than trusting other adults to do the job. I have a grandson. You can believe that I am already encouraging the efforts of his guardian angel.
So, yes, do be careful and wise. But let the Holy Spirit lead you to the true Church.Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 08:02 pm by Intercessor
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"If our charity is arrested by the difficulties encountered in dealing with our neighbor, . . . our relations with our brethren are not regulated by our love of God, but by our love of self." Divine Intimacy p. 781, Fr. Gabriel, O.C.D.
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 05:56 pm |
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Kim M. wrote: CajunRick wrote: Kim M. wrote: Thanks Rick! My hubby is from Louisiana...Hammond, to be exact. We met in Slidell. I lived for a time in LaCombe.
So even though you're a yankee (that is, from north of I-10), you'll recognize Kermie's shirt and understand my references to things like beignets and cafe au lait at Cafe du Monde!
It's a little late, but I hope you had a happy Mardi Gras!
lol Oh yes! We love beignets! Made them ourselves even! And I have gotten to enjoy a cuppa at Cafe du Monde, as well. And believe it or not, we found King Cakes here in Georgia, although we got a real one from an Italian bakery in Hammond when my hubby visited his mother recently. Can't beat the real thing! You can keep the heat and humidity, though. But bring on the food!
You can tell your husband the one thing we can't forgive is if he's now a Falcons fan.
I have some good friends at St. Philip Benizi parish in the Archdiocese of Atlanta.
I don't know how much "alone time" teens have with priests as opposed to youth leaders.
Most priests today are deathly afraid of being caught alone with a teen, and tremble when a kid wants to hug them. I train the altar servers in my parish and we have a full-time youth minister, so the only time kids are really alone with a priest is in the confessional, and even that can be done in the open, within sight of others.
I've posted the statistics around here somewhere, probably in the "Religion in the News" section, but at its worst, the scandal affected about 3% of priests, and that's a lower percentage than teachers, scout leaders, Protestant ministers, Jewish rabbis, sports coaches, etc. The difference is that the Catholic Church, because of its heirarchal structure, has deep pockets and is a prime target for lawsuits. Few other organizations can be sued for $1 million+ per victim.
I do not in any way condone the abuse of any child by anyone, and many within the Church were shamefully guilty of covering up abuse (although often on the best medical advice), but the problem was not ever as severe as it was made out to be, and today it is practically non-existent. If I remember the statistics correctly, there have only been 7 cases in the United States in this millennium for things which happened since 2000. The accusations that keep surfacing are for incidents that happened 20 and 30 years ago, and they will continue to surface until that generation of priests has died.
I chewed out my pastor 20 years ago for visiting my sick daughter when she was home alone. Abuse had nothing to do with it, it was just stupid on his part to leave himself open to accusations. And she was punished for letting him in.
I suggest you ask if you can attend safe environment training if you're in doubt. NO ONE who has any contact with youth is allowed to function without a criminal background check and annual review courses, and that includes priests, staff, and volunteers. The safest place your child can be today is in the loving hands of the Church.
Do your teens have to participate in a youth group if you join the Catholic Church? Are there other opportunities that provide less intimate contact, if that makes any sense?
They have to participate in religious education of some sort, but that is always fully supervised and takes place in a group setting. And I have yet to meet a catechist (teacher) who would not be thrilled at parent participation, or even having a parent just drop by with cookies!
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Ave_Girl
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 06:41 pm |
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Hi Kim,
I just wanted to say hello, welcome to the forum and I'm happy that you found us!
God bless,
Mary Clare
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Kim M.
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:43 pm |
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Rick said,
" You can tell your husband the one thing we can't forgive is if he's now a Falcons fan."
Sorry to disappoint, Rick, but neither of us is a big sports fan. In fact, to prove that point, we were in Sam's Club the Friday before Super Bowl Sunday and were wondering why all the samples were out. We had to be told! 
Rick said,
"Most priests today are deathly afraid of being caught alone with a teen, and tremble when a kid wants to hug them. I train the altar servers in my parish and we have a full-time youth minister, so the only time kids are really alone with a priest is in the confessional, and even that can be done in the open, within sight of others."
Good to hear. I'm glad they care about being above board so much. I'm sure there will be wolves who find a way around even the strictest requirements, but at least it's being made hard for them. Sadly, the good ones who wouldn't hurt a flea are also having to be so cautious since everyone is suspect. I really hate that there has to be such caution, but that's the way it is, isn't it? The bad ones ruin it for everyone else.
I do understand that there are men who love God and who want to be priests that are struggling with homosexual desire. I believe that if these men truly wanted to fully serve God in the priesthood, and they struggled with this weakness, that becoming eunuchs as some did in Bible times, would help them overcome their weaknesses. That's a serious step, I know. Still, it would better enable them to serve without so much temptation. In fact, I'm surprised that it's not a requirement for the priesthood. Shouldn't it be?
From Matthew 19:12:
“For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”
Rick said,
"I suggest you ask if you can attend safe environment training if you're in doubt. NO ONE who has any contact with youth is allowed to function without a criminal background check and annual review courses, and that includes priests, staff, and volunteers. The safest place your child can be today is in the loving hands of the Church."
Good idea! Thanks for the suggestion. 
And thanks to everyone, once again, for the warm welcome!
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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Kim M.
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 11:00 pm |
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Prayerie Pal wrote:but there are hundred of thousands of priests who are holy, orthodox, men and if I had sons still at home, I'd have no qualms joining the Church Jesus Himself established.
Hey Susie! You've visited my blog. I'm glad to hear that you feel so confident about the Church. It actually comforts me to hear things like this. Blessings!
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 02:38 am |
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Kim M. wrote: Rick said,
" You can tell your husband the one thing we can't forgive is if he's now a Falcons fan."
Sorry to disappoint, Rick, but neither of us is a big sports fan.
There is no greater sin for a former resident of Louisiana than to be a Falcons fan. It's OK if you're not a sports fan, it's just not ok to be a Falcons fan!
I do understand that there are men who love God and who want to be priests that are struggling with homosexual desire. I believe that if these men truly wanted to fully serve God in the priesthood, and they struggled with this weakness, that becoming eunuchs as some did in Bible times, would help them overcome their weaknesses. That's a serious step, I know. Still, it would better enable them to serve without so much temptation. In fact, I'm surprised that it's not a requirement for the priesthood. Shouldn't it be?
If you're talking about "becoming eunuchs for the Lord" the reference was figurative, not literal, and has been taken to refer to celibacy, which is indeed required in the Roman Catholic priesthood. (Other Catholic rites allow married men to become priests, which is also permitted in the Latin Rite in particular circumstances).
If you mean that priests should be homosexual, that is certainly not indicated. Priests are essentially called to be asexual in practice. A reporter once asked me if my pastor was a homosexual, and I told him that we had never discussed his sexuality or mine. I expected my pastor to honor his vow of celibacy, and as long as he honored his vow, the rest was none of my business. It truly doesn't matter to me whether my priest is heterosexual or homosexual. It matters to me that he honor his vow.
(However, I can also say that when I was 14 years old I entered the seminary, and an old lady asked me if I had been castrated yet. I told her no, not yet, then had a long talk with my spiritual adviser.)
The Church is a Divine organization comprised of sinful humans, and as long as there are sinners, there will always be the risk of sin. I would be just as careful today with my children in the presence of a priest as with a teacher, coach, or any other adult. It's just good parenting.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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tedjenczewski
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| First Name: | Ted | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Presbyterian, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 02:42 am |
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Hi Kim and welcome to the forum. May God bless you on your journey.
In all my 65 years I never ran across a problem with a gay priest/child molester in any parish I was in. I agree with Rick. As near as I can tell from local news stories over the years, the problem is at least as big in the protestant churches. The difference is that they are small independent churches, or are a denomination with ony one local congregation. They do not provide a huge, wealthy target like the Catholic Church and so the media quickly forgets them and goes on to the next story.
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"...the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1Tim 3, 15
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Kim M.
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 03:51 am |
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Rick said,
"If you mean that priests should be homosexual, that is certainly not indicated. Priests are essentially called to be asexual in practice. A reporter once asked me if my pastor was a homosexual, and I told him that we had never discussed his sexuality or mine. I expected my pastor to honor his vow of celibacy, and as long as he honored his vow, the rest was none of my business. It truly doesn't matter to me whether my priest is heterosexual or homosexual. It matters to me that he honor his vow."
Nonononono! What I mean is that Christian men who are struggling with that particular sin would do well to live a celibate life. So I could see how they would be attracted to the priesthood. Not meaning that priests should be gay. Just that that "job" would probably be more attractive to them because of the vow of celibacy - if they plan to keep it, that is. Hope I was more clear.
I would prefer that priests not have sexual struggles of any kind. But it's not about what I'd prefer, but what God's will is for a man's calling.
Personally, I don't think a Christian man struggling with homosexual feelings should position himself in any job within the church that tempts him to sin. So that was my thinking about becoming a eunuch. It would alleviate the burden of temptation (from what I understand of castration - sorry, I know it's a painful word for men to think about. My husband winced at the word when we were discussing this. lol).
I agree with you that a man's sexuality is none of anyone's business so long as he keeps his vow. But if he doesn't keep his vow, then it becomes his parishioners' business whether they like it or not.
Oh, Rick, I hope I'm making myself clear. I was reading an exchange between you and NotCatholic on this forum dated from last year, and I saw that he wasn't "getting" what you were saying. But I was. It's always a bit tricky when trying to communicate in written format. You always hope you're coming across as you mean to.
Blessings!
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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Kim M.
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 03:53 am |
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tedjenczewski wrote: Hi Kim and welcome to the forum. May God bless you on your journey.
In all my 65 years I never ran across a problem with a gay priest/child molester in any parish I was in. I agree with Rick. As near as I can tell from local news stories over the years, the problem is at least as big in the protestant churches. The difference is that they are small independent churches, or are a denomination with ony one local congregation. They do not provide a huge, wealthy target like the Catholic Church and so the media quickly forgets them and goes on to the next story.
Thanks for the welcome, Ted. I'm certainly hoping you are right about that.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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Kim M.
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 04:11 am |
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Rick said, "If you're talking about "becoming eunuchs for the Lord" the reference was figurative, not literal, and has been taken to refer to celibacy, which is indeed required in the Roman Catholic priesthood. (Other Catholic rites allow married men to become priests, which is also permitted in the Latin Rite in particular circumstances)."
(Sorry, I cannot get the quotes right when trying to reply with a quote. The quote within a quote within a quote thing is too gimpy to mess with - I've tried. So you'll have to put up with my homemade version.)
Jesus speaking from Matthew 19:11-12:
But he said to them, "Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given.
For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it." (Emphasis mine)
Rick, I don't know the Catholic Church's teaching on this, just Scripture. But it seems to me from Scripture that eunuchs can be "made" so not merely by vow, but physically. The general understanding of what constitutes a eunuch is the act of castration.
http://aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/dictionary/eunuch
http://www.biblestudy.org/question/what-is-a-eunuch.html
(Just how DO I embed a link on this board, anyway? Help, anyone?)
I'm not saying a person can't refer to himself as a eunuch merely by taking a vow of celibacy. But I would think the term would hold more water if castration were involved since that seems to be the general understanding of "eunuch".
Okay, enough about that! What a topic! lol
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 05:00 am |
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Kim M. wrote: But he said to them, "Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given.
For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it." (Emphasis mine)
Rick, I don't know the Catholic Church's teaching on this, just Scripture.
Let's look at the Catholic bible, the NAB:
He answered, "Not all can accept [this] word, but only those to whom that is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."
The NIV reads:Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
The New Living Translation:“Not everyone can accept this statement,” Jesus said. “Only those whom God helps. Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made eunuchs by others, and some choose not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”
So the intent here according to more modern translations is voluntary celibacy, not castration, voluntary or otherwise.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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