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Hidden One
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 28th, 2008 |
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| First Name: | H1 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | lax Presbyterian -> pseudo-Arminian non-denom -> heretical Presbyterian -> ... |
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 08:54 pm |
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Does God really want us to worship him out of duty?
Yes. It is infinitely preferable, according to the Saints, to do a work because it ought to be done, than not to do it. The Saitns always write of trials and dry periods and times and situations where doing God's will gave them no pleasure nor any comfort or solace. They wrote that God takes great pleasure in our doing things for Him without foreseen temporal recompense. (It's called love. Parents should understand this.)
We should go because of our love for God--just like children do things for their parents out of love.
How little is our love for God if we will not go and worship Him without any pleasure or comfort for us! How foolish are we to think that we must feel good in worship for it to have pleased God... and how much more foolishness is it for us to think that anythign else in worship matters a whit!
If I love God, I will do my best to worship Him in all situations - and this is most pleasing to Him. He is no less glorified by the Vietnamese immigrant who knows not a word of the English Novus Ordo Mass but composes his heart to worship than the English teacher beside him, who has likewise so composed his heart and understands the words he hears and sings. Indeed, it would seem to me that the Vietnamese man would please God more because it takes him more effort in service to His Lord.
It is not what is done in the temporal realms that matters so much to the Lord, but what the will of man desires to do - all else is incidental.
Marcia, go to the Mass, and know that the Lord reads your mind and heart, and is pleased even if the circumstances spoil your most valiant attempts to worship Him. Don't give up. Not understanding hymns doesn't inherently make you any less valuable or worthy in the eyes of God.
I'll be prayin'.
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1 John 4:7-12
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Kim M.
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 417 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 09:09 pm |
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Marcia wrote: I think that part of my problem is that I give praise to the Lord through singing in addition to prayer. That is why the language of the hymns means so much to me. How can I praise God through music if I don't speak or understand the language?
Ahhh, I see this as a chance to learn a new language! I would love to sing in Latin AND understand it, and I'm not even Catholic.  Welcome to the board, Marcia!
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"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 710 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 09:28 pm |
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I think that I said that wrong- what I meant was that sometimes I may not feel like worshiping- it would be easier to stay home, I'm tired, stressed whatever but it is still MY duty to go to Mass and pray- often I will regain my sense of peace and the strength to carry on- but sometimes I leave feeling empty still- I think Mother T, has prbably said it better than I ever could and yes to worship is a duty as well as a privilege- our bread and butter letter to God if you will in my opinion and maybe I am wrong. I do feel that the Evangelical type of worship service has become skewed over the years to our "feel good society"- many times my Southern Baptist family has said they can't get pleasure out of my dull and dry ( to them) liturgical worship and if they don';t leave a service feeling uplifted then to them it has not been a worship service. For my family extended family it is all about the pastor's sermon and the Music Director's choices. For me as an Anglican before I knew better and now as a Catholic the Eucharist has always been the focus of my worship and I am grateful for the sacrifice that enables me to recieve this gift. If the priest is less than inspiring or the music stinks ( often in my parish) well all of that pales in significance to the Eucharist. In the OT God laid out requilrements and though he developed them further in the new testament the bottom line is that he said "You are to worship me in this way" making it an obligation in return for the blessigs bestowed upon us. I may be wrong though.
____________________
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 211 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 09:29 pm |
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Marcia wrote: kimdyuma wrote: Worship is not necessarily intended to make US feel good - first and foremost it is duty to God.
Does God really want us to worship him out of duty? I worship him because I love him. Sure, there are days when I don't feel like praying but I tell him about it and the Holy Spirt helps me to pray. Maybe it's my religious background, but I could never understand why some people go to church because it's their duty. We should go because of our love for God--just like children do things for their parents out of love.
Hi Marcia, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so please forgive me in advance if the point I'm making does not truly apply to you.
That said, I think the point that Kim was trying to respond to is that in some of the things you have written, there seems to be a sense of "I won't go to Church if it doesn't make me feel good" If this is truly how you feel, I would ask you, what makes you think that God owes you that feeling?
Yes, it is true that people should go to church out of duty, for in reality it is us who owe everything to God, and we should give thanks and praise for that. At the same time however, like you I suspect, I have a certain pity for those who ONLY go out of duty. Yes we should go out of Love, but is should be a pure love.
When we do something for a loved one, we do it because it is right to do so, because it is good for that person, and because it will help lead toward that person's happiness. Often these actions will lead to those very special "warm fuzzy feelings" inside. It is when these "warm fuzzies" become our motive rather than our reward, however that we have moved from acting out of love, to acting out of self interest.
Regards Doc
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 710 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 09:31 pm |
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Please Please don't take this as a slam anyone it is not meant to be but this whole discussion is an example of the difference in Catholic vs. Protestant culture and how we have been taught to think of church and worship
____________________
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 10:16 pm |
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The version of an act of contrition that I learned goes in par t as follows: Most merciful God I confess that I have sinned against thee in thought, word and deed,
by what I have done and by what I have left undone.
I have not loved thee with my whole heart, I have not loved my neighbour as myself.
I am truly sorry and humbly repent.
For the sake of thy son Jesus Christ, have mercy on me and forgive me that I may delight in thy ways, to the glory of thy Name. Amen
I have always taken the red sentence to encompass the times that I went to Church and now Mass and the world intruded or I rushed through personal prayer time or was angry at God etc, therefore more in duty than in joy.
And with that being said I am probably confusing everyone so I will head back to my sewing machine which doesn't expect me to make any sense at all as long as I keep my fingers away from the needle!
Last edited on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 10:18 pm by kimdyuma
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Kim M.
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 417 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 10:25 pm |
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Intercessor wrote:[size=I'm glad you've joined us here. We have lots of lively discussions, and we don't always agree with each other. Peace reigns, however, for we give respect to Mr. Grodi and the mods. The real glue holding us together is deep affection for Kermie, John Conlee (the little ferret), and Kim's rats. 
Join in, Marcia!
God bless,
Becky]
Yes, lots of pet lovers here! 
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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Kim M.
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
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| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 11:23 pm |
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kimdyuma wrote: And with that being said I am probably confusing everyone so I will head back to my sewing machine which doesn't expect me to make any sense at all as long as I keep my fingers away from the needle!
Kim, did you sew the scene in your avatar? Lovely!
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"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 11:43 pm |
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Yeah I did- it is machine applique, one of 3 panels I made
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 02:04 am |
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Does God really want us to worship him out of duty?
He wants us to follow and worship him in faith and truth, not because of any reward or gift. Some years ago, Marcia, the Lord took away everything tangible and left me to trust him in pure faith (my confessor’s words), without the assistance of anything tangible. He has guided me secretly ever since, without my seeing or understanding his presence or what he is doing. No feelings, no “high,” just the bare need to believe and obey the truth which he is. Some may call this “duty,” others “love.” I recognize it as faith; it is a groaning in the depths of my soul to heed his call.
I worship him because I love him.… We should go because of our love for God--just like children do things for their parents out of love.
When I was six years old, I asked myself a profound question: Why do you obey your parents? After some hours of thought, I concluded that I obeyed them because I loved them. It never occurred to me that there is a difference between love and a state of dependency. That only dawned on me a couple of years later. In this way, I discovered more precisely what love is and how lacking I was in it.
In like manner, much of what we do “for God” is really done for ourselves, all the while trying to convince ourselves that we are indeed doing good and avoiding evil. This is why I said above that it is our being holy that counts rather than our feeling holy. I attend Mass (just got back from Mass, in fact) not because it is my duty, not even because I love him (I can love God anywhere), but because I am driven to him by my own inner need.
My pastor is ill. He has just returned from Rome, where he attended a conference of moral theologians on questions of end-of-life care (see this report), and apparently he was exposed to a strain of virus that is not making the rounds here. But he celebrated Mass anyway because he is driven to bring Christ to the people; it is not a duty (he could have been dispensed), but an inner necessity. He spoke mightily (if voicelessly) of faith, and of how the man cured of blindness was led to it in an entirely unprecedented way.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 02:28 am |
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Kim M. wrote: and I'm not even Catholic.
Yet......
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Kim M.
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
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Posted: Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 02:42 am |
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CajunRick wrote: Kim M. wrote: and I'm not even Catholic.
Yet......
lol Right.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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Ryan
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| Joined: | Thu Jan 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | Manitoba Canada |
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Posted: Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 10:11 pm |
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Hi Marcia,
Just wanted to let you know that I will say a prayer for you tonight. I am very edified by your desire to offer pure worship to God. I think its wonderful. I do hope that you stay in the Catholic Church, as your love for Jesus is so evident and is a blessing to the other parishioners in your Church.
In Christ,
Ryan
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Marcia
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| Joined: | Tue Feb 26th, 2008 |
| Location: | Butler, Pennsylvania USA |
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| First Name: | Marcia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Christian Missionary Alliace, Evangelical Free, Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 10:28 am |
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Hidden One wrote: It is infinitely preferable, according to the Saints, to do a work because it ought to be done, than not to do it. The Saitns always write of trials and dry periods and times and situations where doing God's will gave them no pleasure nor any comfort or solace. They wrote that God takes great pleasure in our doing things for Him without foreseen temporal recompense. (It's called love. Parents should understand this.)
I love the way Father Corapi explained love last night. He said that it isn't a feeling, but a decision. I attend Mass because I want to please God, not because it is required of me. Sure, there are times when I don't "feel" like going, but I still go because of my love for God.
I am thankful to Mr. Grodi for this forum. I don't know about other parishes, but mine doesn't have any kind of support system for those of us who are new to the faith. It is so nice to be able to have people who encourage us in our new faith.
Thanks for your prayers.
____________________
Marcia
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 12:27 pm |
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Yes, Marcia, a decision taken. Just as I said above: “No feelings, no ‘high,’ just the bare need to believe and obey the truth which he is. Some may call this ‘duty,’ others ‘love.’ I recognize it as faith; it is a groaning in the depths of my soul to heed his call.” I believe you are beginning to understand now.
David
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Annie
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Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 03:10 pm |
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Credo Catholic wrote: But maybe it's the background we are coming from, if I don't feel like I'm worshipping then how do I know I am?
The Church teaches, and has always taught, that it is the performing of the rites that makes Christ present or makes them valid. The Church recognized 2000 years ago that this should not rely on human feelings.
When I was confirmed I didn't feel any different but I knew I was different because the Church teaches that a rite when properly performed has the intended effect. That is why there are all the rules for rites having the proper form, matter, and minister.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 02:43 am |
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Latin's Back. Slowly, perhaps somewhat awkwardly used, but it's back. It'll take some time for it to be fully accepted and honed to even halfway where it used to be. Forty years of liturgical deconstructionist nonsense has done its damage.
One of the most beautiful Christmas Eve Masses I've been to in ages, and I mean ages, occured last Christmas. I'll never forget how I felt that night sitting in the back of the church (well, I must confess, I got in a little late) and hearing LATIN, in addition to smelling the incense and hearing the bells. Heck, if anybody had noticed, they would've seen a glistened upper right cheek. I was that moved. Yep, the real deal, if you'll pardon my secular jargon. "Smells n bells" and Latin. Now, the music was still had a lot of post-Vatican mush, but at least this parish had its head on straight by using Latin at Midnight Mass.
Protestant evangelicals today are wont to call this a "worship experience." Perhaps in a bare-boned way of putting it, it was. But to me, it was far, far more personal and meaningful. I hadn't been to a Latin Mass since I was a college freshman at St. Thomas University, then Biscayne College in Miami and attended an outdoor mass on Ash Wednesday.
Ironically enough, it seemed a lot warmer coming out of that church than it did that night in Miami when we got hit with an unusually nasty cold spell. Sweaters weren't enough that night. Yes, it does get that cold down there.
But I was warmed indeed this Christmas Eve by knowing that not only was I fully home again. You would think walking home on a starlit clear midnight evening in New England with a thin snow cover might make for a real cold walk, even if it was only for a quarter mile. Not so, because it seemed for a moment that then and there the whole world seemed warmly at home. That's what tradition, and catholicity can do for all of us.
That's why we call our church, Catholic. Not Roman Catholic; not American Catholic -- just Catholic. That's enough. And thank God we have leadership in the Holy See which is doing yeoman's work to make sure it stays that way.
One of the hallmarks of any stable household is a sense of secured positive traditions everyone can count on, hold on to, and pass them along w/o embarrassment to our kids and grandkids. Let's thank our spiritual fathers toiling alongside the Tiber for this; beginning with Benedict XVI on down.
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
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heardclarke
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | Dallas Area, Texas USA |
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Posted: Wed Mar 26th, 2008 02:12 am |
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Dear friends,
I have followed this thread with great interest.
I came "home" from the Anglican church where we made great music but there was less and less emphasis on doctrine and traditional theology. Everything was up for grabs. The gorgeous music kept me going for years, but eventually it began to seem like the liturgy was an empty shell with nothing real inside. Sunday was really just a social time.
I found a teaching job at a bilingual Catholic parish in a part of town that has seen better days. Externally the place did not look very impressive, and the jr. high masses were an adjustment for me (our choir had just returned from a week singing at Westminster Abbey). However I quickly realized that the people and their faith were REAL. The parish and school's mottto is "Love one another as I have loved you." I was welcomed, encouraged and accepted.
After two years of attending liturgies each week at both places, I knew that my spiritual home was now at the school. It wasn't about what music we did; everything centered on our relationship with Christ first and each other second. We didn't waste time and energy debating "lifestyle" issues. We were teaching, learning, working and playing too hard.
I am comfortable singing a Latin motet by Palestrina or "One Bread, One Body." (I also like to listen to Amy Grant and Mercy Me in the car!) The Church is a big family with so much rich diversity, strong tradition, and true fellowship. We have so much to learn from each other. Sure, I am uncomfortable sometimes -- like Marsha I dislike a "loose" form of the liturgy. However, the challenge can be really healthy. If I allow myself to open up to what God is teaching me in that liturgy on that day, there is always something to see in a new way. (If nothing else, I learn a little more about patience and charity.)
The Catholic Church is not "One size fits all." It is more like a gemstone with many facets and fiery colors. What you see depends on what direction you look at it from, but at the core it is unchanging and eternally beautiful. It reflects the eternal fire of love.
Deus Caritas est....God is Love.
Lisa
____________________
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Wed Mar 26th, 2008 03:55 am |
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Lisa,
 Great post. It's great to throw people off when they think of Catholics and music. Folks just don't know how us religious foreigners (aren't we supposed to be the Pope's agents?) can also get into Amy Grant, her husband Vince Gill, Johnny Cash and even Willie Nelson when it comes to listening to religious music, American, excuse me, Southern style. Even us Blue Bellys from up north.
One such artist always cracks me up when I think of the Bible Belt and it's Travis Tritt, with you guessed it, "The Bible Belt" which he sang as the closing soundtrack for "My Cousin Vinnie."
It's always worth a good laugh. In order to find anyone with a pulse who wouldn't like this parody, you'd have to meet one of those folks Mark Twain described as always being good in the worst ways not to to even crack the slightest wrinkle of a smile. Ohhh, it's opening, I just see that smile coming, see they can laugh, they can laugh!
http://www.cmt.com/videos/travis-tritt/35080/bible-belt.jhtml
 
PS: I'm afraid that having sent this down your way you might get the impression that the urban realms of lands north of the M/D line are full of Cousin Vinnies. Naw. We have even crazier people than that!
BUt wouldn't you know, my wife and I attended a Tritt concert at Mohegan Sun, (oh, don't tell anyone you know who saw a concert, had fun and a good meal in the worlds second largest den of iniquity. God help you chil'!)
Some of those good folks toiling in the vineyards of megachurchianity are already getting their calculators out figuring how many additional mortgages I'll need to take out on my house to buy the missus and I out of the lake of fire and brimestone!
Now I'm really going to seal the deal by listening to Hank Williams, Jr., and Jimmy Buffett. (At least Buffett's one of ours!)
Last edited on Wed Mar 26th, 2008 04:00 am by Steven Barrett
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
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Marcia
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| Joined: | Tue Feb 26th, 2008 |
| Location: | Butler, Pennsylvania USA |
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| First Name: | Marcia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Christian Missionary Alliace, Evangelical Free, Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 26th, 2008 09:44 pm |
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I was talking to a cradle Catholic last week and we got on the subject of Latin in the Mass. I asked him how, when the entire Mass was in Latin, people understood what was being said. He told me that most of the people in our parents' and grandparents' generation went to Catholic schools and were required to learn Latin. I never thought about that before, but it makes sense. If Latin is coming back to the Mass, maybe our local parishes should offer courses in it so that us newcomers to the faith will be able to understand it.
I had attended churches that sang mostly praise & worship music before I converted to Catholicism. So, it was an adjustment for me to sing traditional hymns but I love them now more than the music I was used to.
My husband and I attended a parish that sang a song in Latin after the passing of the peace on Holy Thursday. The people didn't sing this song out of a book so we had absolutely no idea what they were singing. The two of us just looked at each other with blank looks on our faces. I know that we always sing "Lamb of God" after the passing of the peace, but I have absolutely no idea if that's what they sang that night or not. I've already decided not to go back to that church for Holy Thursday next year. I've heard about one parish in our area where the congregation sings one song a year in Latin--Adeste Fidelis. Maybe I'll go there during Holy Week next year.
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Marcia
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heardclarke
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| Location: | Dallas Area, Texas USA |
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Posted: Wed Mar 26th, 2008 11:11 pm |
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Dear Marcia,
The song in Latin right after the peace is almost always:
Agnus Dei, qui tollis pecata mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis pecata mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis pecata mundi, dona nobis pacem.
This is translated:
Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, grant us peace.
Many parishes do this bit in Latin and the text is familiar to people who grew up in the Catholic Church, so that's why they didn't need to look it up.
I know it is hard to get used to the liturgy at first. I never found the missalette very helpful in the beginning. It seems to skip around a lot. The whole liturgy is a drama with everyone playing a part at the right time. It takes some getting used to. Then once you are used to it, it will change at a special time like Holy Week.
One way you might enjoy the Mass more is to join the choir at whatever parish you eventually settle down in. The more experienced folks will know where these songs can be found in the hymn book or missal. (They would probably love to have a new person who likes to sing! You might think choir would be difficult, but it's easier than you might expect.)
I hope you aren't too discouraged. It has taken me three years (and a lot of questions over coffee) to get as comfortable as I am now. Next year I'll be at a new parish, though I don't know where yet. I am hoping that adjustment will not be too hard for me and the kids. Hang in there.
Lisa
____________________
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 11:47 am |
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Marcia wrote: He told me that most of the people in our parents' and grandparents' generation went to Catholic schools and were required to learn Latin.
Having gone to Catholic school for 12 years I can say that Latin was never even offered, except in the seminary. In our area today, Latin is offered in the public schools but not in the Catholic schools.
We had missals that had the Latin and English side by side and after a time, even though we didn't understand the Latin, we knew what was being said in the same way that if I hear a Hispanic say "vaya con Dios" I know it means "go with God" even if I don't know what word means what, etc.
My husband and I attended a parish that sang a song in Latin after the passing of the peace on Holy Thursday. The people didn't sing this song out of a book so we had absolutely no idea what they were singing.
It could have been the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) as suggested above, or possibly Dona Nobis Pacem (Grant Us Peace), a very beautiful, simple and repetitive Latin melody that is centuries older than you and I. It is often sung as a round, and can be quite meditative, almost like a mantra.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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lifetone
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 4th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 35 |
| First Name: | Anne | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Methodist, Baptist, Wiccan/New Age, Pentecostal, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 12:46 pm |
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Hi Marcia,
Shalom. I just joined the Holy Catholic Church last Saturday and it's only just starting to sink in. I'm so excited..
I felt led to greet you by saying Shalom, which means peace, and not just any peace but the peace that comes from having your life in right order with God. It's not a feeling. In fact you may have Shalom, His peace, as you are sobbing and sure the world has collapsed around you. It is a total peace, an order to everything in your life. It is the kind of peace which Jesus gives us. A lot of my more Messianic (Hebrew roots) friends like to use that word as a regular greeting and would explain it in much more depth if they could. ;-)
As Rick said, Kyrie Eleison is Greek not English. There are popular songs with that title and I didn't learn until joining the Catholic Church that it means Lord Have Mercy. No one ever told me what it meant but I knew the words and they are beautiful.
The thing is, Marcia, the Roman Catholic Church is a global church, with members all over the world from all different languages, some of which wouldn't even sound like languages to us!
They have to somehow meet the needs of all these people AND retain the essential elements of their faith AND deal with people's rightful attachments to where they come from AND our sinful attachments and ... deep breath.. Kyrie Eleison, indeed! I feel for them, for us. Oh boy I really did it. I'm Catholic now.
But that is part of what I love about this Church. I pray that they never return to saying the Bible in Latin or the homily either (may God's will be done in this regard though, not mine) but personally I think it is awesome to sing these wonderful old songs in their original languages. It is part of a wonderful heritage and I'm not quite sure how to put this but to me that is part of what makes the Catholic Church so great..
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