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JustaServant
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| Joined: | Wed Dec 19th, 2007 |
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| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 10:52 pm |
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Since I crossed the Tiber eight months ago, I have been carefully finding my way around and getting re-acquainted with the Church of my youth. I returned to the Catholic Church because, when I threw down the gauntlet of challenge, She convinced me that She is indeed the Church founded by Christ.
With a billion people world-wide, the Catholic Church is truly diverse. But at the same time, it requires obedience to the teachings of the Holy See. If one wants a ‘warm and fuzzy’ Jesus, the Catholic Church is not the place for them.
As I am writing this, a Catholic priest in Chicago has made the news by supporting a pro-abortion candidate for president. Recently, I encountered a priest who, to me, appeared to be bragging about his liberal views on homosexuality.
Having grown up in the Church, this comes as no great surprise. I was aware that the Church was far from perfect and not everyone is obedient to her.
Catholics have always taken a stand against racism and for social justice. However, the Church cannot be called ‘liberal’. The definition I am using of ‘liberal’ is one who because he or she can legitimately dissent from Church teaching. A conservative will assent to Church teaching and teach fullness of our faith.
There is a generation of liberal priests from the sixties and seventies who still hold power. These priests are also often not pro-life and believe social poverty issues are far more important than the slaughter of the unborn.
They have misguided their flocks into dissent on matters that are not up for discussion. The Christian conscience is to be guided by the Holy Spirit. The church is to be guided by it and the Pope, etc.
Liberal Catholics do more damage to the Church than any wide-eyed anti-Catholic. They create nominal ‘cafeteria Catholics’ who pick and choose what the doctrines of their Church they want believe in. They have created more fundamentalists, than fundamentalists have.
While some liberal priests are still in control on the parish level, the seminaries, and some of the bishoprics, they are slowly being replaced by those who obey to the Pope and the Church. Many of these replacements come from outside the US.
I have noticed, on a personal level, the differences between American priests and foreign-born priests. When I tell a foreign-born priest of my return to the Church, it is met with joy, interest and enthusiasm. With some American priests I have met, it is met with disinterest.
I did not return to the Catholic Church to discard Her doctrines and teachings. For what would be the purpose of returning?
I am a conservative Catholic and traditional. I believe the Bible is the Word of God and I submit myself to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
I would like to see more Latin in the Mass, but I have nothing against the Norvus Ordo. I am under the authority of the Church and the Pope, who have upheld the doctrine for 2000 years.
On the other hand I will not be part of a schismatic group just because I am conservative and prefer some Latin in the Mass. For what would be the purpose of returning to the Catholic Church only to join with a group that has disobeyed their Pope? That is not conservative, that displays as much disobedience as the Protestant reformers did.
The Catholic Church is 2000 years old, and the gates of Hell will never prevail against her. As I find my way back into her arms, I will defend her against enemies both within and without.
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Former fundamentalist preacher, now a Catholic.
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roxyorthodoxy
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 41 |
| First Name: | Rox | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Revert |
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 02:30 am |
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There is a generation of liberal priests from the sixties and seventies who still hold power. These priests are also often not pro-life and believe social poverty issues are far more important than the slaughter of the unborn.
I agree with you there....welcome home!
am a conservative Catholic and traditional. I believe the Bible is the Word of God and I submit myself to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Sounds a lot like me - a revert to the Church....I returned yearning for the Latin Mass, more smells and bells and all the accoutrements of the Church I grew up in , the 60's....luckily there are a few Churches in my area that are totally embracing the Latin Mass.
It's great to have you on our Board!
Roxy Orthodoxy
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roxyorthodoxy
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 41 |
| First Name: | Rox | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Revert |
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 02:32 am |
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I returned to the Catholic Church because, when I threw down the gauntlet of challenge, She convinced me that She is indeed the Church founded by Christ
James,
One more thing... what made you realize this?
Roxy Orthodoxy
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JustaServant
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| Joined: | Wed Dec 19th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 20 |
| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 10:46 am |
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roxyorthodoxy wrote: I returned to the Catholic Church because, when I threw down the gauntlet of challenge, She convinced me that She is indeed the Church founded by Christ
James,
One more thing... what made you realize this?
Roxy Orthodoxy
Sorry, my testimony is on the main page and I put a link to my blog in my profile. Here is my testimony here:
http://thetrailhome.blogspot.com/2008/02/trail-home.html
Last edited on Sat Apr 5th, 2008 10:47 am by JustaServant
____________________
Former fundamentalist preacher, now a Catholic.
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Therese Z
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| Joined: | Sat Mar 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Chicagoland, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 46 |
| First Name: | Therese Z | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle, Cultural, Lapsed, Passionately Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 08:26 pm |
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I came back to the Church after over twenty years myself, and I can get sinfully irritable with fellow Catholics who are either "liberal" (overly influenced by society into thinking many teachings are just suggestions), or willfully uncatechized (why would anybody rely on something they were taught as a child without updating their knowledge?). I have been fortunate this time to encounter the "holy people" in the parish and in the Church at large - in my childhood, our cultural Catholic family gravitated towards the "social people" and the dances and car washes and candy sales were what was more important. That's been such an important influence, along with Catholic TV and radio and lots and lots of reading. I had to "read backwards" as it were; read contemporary authors like Scott Hahn and then go backwards to the classics like The Imitation of Christ.
I find it comforting to hear the lovingly ironic quote (I think by Hillaire Belloc) - "Welcome to the Church!! Isn't it awful??" We're all sinners but there are saints among us, and Jesus as our Head.
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JustaServant
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| Joined: | Wed Dec 19th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 20 |
| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 11:44 am |
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STILL Finding My Way.
Interesting reactions from both sides on last weeks Blog entry on different forums. Both liberal and conservative seemed to read more into the post than was there. Extreme liberals considered it an 'angry' post. Extreme conservatives GOT angry AT the post.
As I stated earlier 'Conservative' and 'liberal' can mean a lot of things, politically, socially, and theologically. There are many political and social issues that I would come down on either side.
So perhaps those labels are not appropriate since they have come to be mean different things to different people in the course of history. FDR and JFK would not be considered 'liberal' in the modern sense of the word.
So, forgive the baggage I picked up from my days in fundamentalism.
It disturbs me that our society is becoming more and more divided politically and is driven to extremes by ideologues. Robert Bork observed once that in his day (WW2 era) two political opponents could disagree and still remain great friends. Today, if one disagree, you’re not just wrong, you’re evil for thinking the way you do.
In the Catholic Church however, orthodox and unorthodox I believe is better terminology. As one fellow commented: “You are just a true Catholic. We just believe in the Teaching and authority of the Catholic Church and do not pick or choose as the liberals (unorthodox) do.”
The terminology might change, but commitment to our Lord does not.
____________________
Former fundamentalist preacher, now a Catholic.
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 06:05 am |
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 I feel a great sense of kinship with James and Therese, both from the Chicago area. Unfortunately, there's a lot of the intransigent form of reactionary nonsense you folks ran into in Illinois out here in western Massachusetts. You folks had Cardinal Bernardin for a long time, which, notwithstanding his saintly qualities, explains for a lot of what you've experienced.
The fault doesn't lie with the late Cardinal. It lies with the general tendency of people who identify with a certain person or his style/or take on something which sometimes gets blown out of proportion or twisted into an ideological groupthink mindset. And if it's being promoted (or over promoted) by influential people from the chancery all the way to local parish councils and so forth, it's hard as heck to root this out.
I've always found the so-called "liberalism" of the pro -Americanist heretics and people touching close to that movement quite ironic in the sense that they give intransigence and resistance to new ideas a bad name. In many respects they've become like teenagers who take a liking to something in their early teens and nothing short of an a-bomb wll dislodge them from that position. This might even be an endearing quality for the right reason in some of our youths, but when practiced by adults who ought to know better and show better judgment, not to mention demonstrate better manners towards new members of the Faith or returnees -- this calls for a literary form of shaming; putting 'em in the old Puritan stocks of shame. Hate to put it that way, and it's awful that we have to air this kind of dirty linen, but if we don't now, all the progress we're making now trying to bounce back from the messes left behind by the bums in Boston, and Springfield, MA, for starters -- will be undone and we'll lose good conscientious Catholic Christians like yourself, whom we cannot afford to lose: period!
I've experienced a little of what you've been through in my own diocese of Springfield, MA. We've been pretty rocked and our former bishop had to immediately resign and step into St. Luke's in Washington, DC. when his indiscretions (what a term!) came to light and he didn't offer a peep of denial. "How could you even think of going back ... blah blah blah."
How could I not, when despite all my earlier reactions to the first round of coverup revelations (Fr. James Porter of the Boston Archdiocese) came to light and the notorious Fr. Lavigne murder case in Springfield, MA. I simply realized I still cared enough to admit I cared too much not to go back home. Call our moves a different twist of the Prodigal Son, but for some reasons, unique only to ourselves perhaps, but common enough to bring us back in the family, we simply came back. But whether or not the family's willing to fully take us, accept our desire to return her former sense of mission and trad itions, etc. that sense of uniqueness we just know by instinct and membership -- that "old shoe feeling" for lack of a better way of putting it, well, some of its members, our grumpy and disgruntled cousins will just have to swallow their shortened fuses, dinged pride, and whatever else and learn to open their hearts and minds again.
Don't you feel like Ben Hur at times? Sure, but you still reach for that symbol by the door; you still honor your Tradition, and you still stand by your Faith, even unto possible great pain and/or death. And you stick even when you see your leader you recognize by your heart's instinct, getting put to death and you're left wondering what the ...
But like Hur, your sticking to and through it all pays off. Like ancient Israel, your Church's been subverted from within; but also like Hur's Israel, She has a Redeemer far greater than all the smart alecks, the rectory pharisees and whomever else we bump into that's lost his or her salt.
So long as we've still got enough left to keep things going and helping to rebuild our badly mangled Israel, all the Romans in the fourth estate, the courts and academia and all the pharisees and sadducees worming our local Temples (Israel) from within won't be able to withstand our numbers when more and more of us keep coming back and all because we won't let these losers deter us from being what they could've been all along, and still have the potential to be all over again. They're hurting, too.
This is our moment, and it's a moment we may not have even wanted. But it's our moment, and not for ourselves. But for Christ, His Church, and the victims of those who let Him down from within.
Glad to be home with you.
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
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Therese Z
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Chicagoland, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 46 |
| First Name: | Therese Z | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle, Cultural, Lapsed, Passionately Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 10:10 pm |
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Yes, we have a lot to overcome in Northern Illinois. It's amazing though how quickly damage can be reversed. I think the reasons are several:
The converted or the re-converted are the passionate ones, the volunteers, the do-ers. The liberals are getting older and worn out - there is a discernible age gap in the disenchanted liberals and the passionately orthodox. So the orthodox lie happily in wait for the old crabs to retire and die, and then step in and pick up ministries that seem to be dying and refresh them almost immediately. Witness several churches in the Chicago area that were in blighted areas, beautiful but very old and run down. The Archdiocese gave them to Opus Dei and other groups for $1 and those churches are being restored and stuffed to the walls with ardent Catholics.
The internet and blogworld are simply amazing as faith rejuvenators and educators, and that world is populated by the young and youngish. So the people with the best catechesis, picked up on line from the blogworld, are the ones who are starting up new ministries and orders and devotions to take the place of the old polluted ones. This is especially exciting to watch with the younger religious orders. It's exhilarating and sad at the same to compare the Nashville Dominicans with the Adrian Dominicans or the Sinsinawa Dominicans, the latter two having gone quite crazy over the last thirty years.
Really sadly, there are a lot of dirty secrets that won't come to light (I hope), they'll die with the sinners. That tangle of who has sinned in what way chokes up the free movement of positive change upwards in the church hierarchy. I agree that the diocesan and parish staffs in some cases are stifling and discouraging orthodoxy - it's happening in mean-spirited little ways in my own parish, where the "worship and liturgy" committee keeps us toeing the liberal God-as-Mother line, but they simply can't live forever, which brings me to my last thought -
I believe that knowing the Church cannot be prevailed against by the gates of Hell make us take the long view, that we might not see all the changes, but we can rejoice over the leading edges and know that the church of the near future will have a lot of excitement and fervor. It's like having the Church's mind and the Church's sense of time, instead of my own temporal one.
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