 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Marcia
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 26th, 2008 |
| Location: | Butler, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 31 |
| First Name: | Marcia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Christian Missionary Alliace, Evangelical Free, Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 08:15 pm |
|
I converted to the Catholic Church in May of 2006 and love my faith. However, recently my parish has started singing the Kyrie in Latin and one song during the week in Latin. When I asked my priest about this, he said that Latin is the official language of the Church and that our parish considers this to be going back to the roots of our faith. I told him that if the Church would have been singing in Latin when I went to Mass there 3 years ago, I seriously doubt that I would have converted. We keep hearing about unity among the different faiths but, to me, this doesn't bring about unity. I understand that some people miss having Latin in the Mass, so I suggested that we alternate singing the verses in Latin and English as a compromise, but I don't think that went over very well. Singing the hymns are a big part of my worship and I'm starting to wonder if I made a mistake when I joined the Catholic Church if Latin is going to become a part of the Mass again. 
____________________
Marcia
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 08:46 pm |
|
Hello Marcia, As you see from my profile, I formally was with the C&MA. I became Presbyterian and was very Anti-Catholic. But then I discovered the church fathers. It's changed my whole way of thinking.
I'm still on my way to the RC church. You're there. Please stay there. Look at what you have. You have the Eucharist, the very body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. Where else can you get that? Nowhere! If that doctrine is true then that is the focus of the mass. Who cares whether it is in Latin or English? The words are the same. I'm not Catholic yet, but I know that when I join, my focus will be on the Eucharist. That will be the prime motive for me entering the church.
I can read the translations of the readings and music. My liking them is irrelevent. My spirit is being fed, not my necessarily my mind. Think of it, if this is true, then Jesus our Lord, Jesus Our Lord, Jesus Our Lord grabs my attention, he will feed me with his own body in what appears to be a wafer. That's the focus, not the smells and bells. I don't mean to demean all the other aspects of the mass. They all have extraordinary meaning. But they all point to Christ. And when I sing and pray, in English, Latin, Tagalog, Chinese, Spanish or whatever, I'm joining with the body of Christ universal saying those same prayers. It's a unity of faith that is shared individually.
O.K. I know this sounds a bit heavy handed and you may be wondering why I haven't crossed the Tiber yet. Lots of reasons I've mentioned on this site. But I am drawing closer. And what is drawing me closer is the Eucharist. Christ will draw the people in to the church whether it's Latin or English. Plus, there are plenty of parishes who won't use the Latin or will have both.
Hang in there Marcia. God is working.
Rich
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5347 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 09:29 pm |
|
Marcia wrote: However, recently my parish has started singing the Kyrie in Latin and one song during the week in Latin. When I asked my priest about this, he said that Latin is the official language of the Church and that our parish considers this to be going back to the roots of our faith.
First of all, Marcia, welcome to our forum. We're glad to have you with us.
The Kyrie is one of the most ancient of all the Church's prayers, but it is in Greek, not Latin. And your priest is right. Diversity of language has always been part of the heritage of our faith, whether it is the Greek and Latin of our ancestors, or the Spanish of a growing number of our contemporary Catholics. Our Holy Father has encouraged us to increase the use of Latin, and it seems that your parish has found a good way to do that.
I doubt if you will ever see a return to the mass entirely in Latin. There is no indication that this is desired by the Church. What you will see, gradually over the next several years, is an increase in the availability of Latin liturgy for those who wish to attend. For example, you might see one weekday or Sunday mass in Latin in your parish or an adjoining one.
So many of our Latin hymns are absolutely beautiful, and simply do not convey the same beauty in English. I'm glad your parish has reintroduced them to a new generation.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 09:46 pm |
|
Hello again Marsha. I should have said this earlier but, Welcome to the site.
Your comments are well received and Rick has given you a loving answer. I have heard so many comments recently from ex-Catholics coming to our church who have become disallusioned with the RC Church. When I hear their comments I cringe inside. I've been studying the Catholic faith now for 5 years. When I hear the reasons so many Catholics leave the church, I shake my head in disbelief. Sure, the many of the parishes in our area have strayed from the tradition, but the excuses I've heard convince me that after a while in our Protestant Churches, the complaints will be repeated. And they'll leave for somewhere else.
I'm almost at the tipping point and I get excited about thinking about entering the Catholic church. So when I see Catholics questioning what is happening in their parishes I wave the flag and trumpet for all to hear for them to stick with it. You have so much and I want it too. I apologise for being so vociferous in my first posting. I should have been loving like Rick. (Look out for Kermie though. I hear he hangs out with a 'gator...and worse yet, a pig)
But enjoy the fun here. We love to haggle, chat, joke, discuss, argue and otherwise love one another when times get tough. Our moderators are the best. Maybe Dave will even write you a book. 
Welcome aboard and enjoy the ride.
Rich
|
|
|
Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1223 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 09:47 pm |
|
Marcia wrote:
I converted to the Catholic Church in May of 2006 and love my faith. However, recently my parish has started singing the Kyrie in Latin and one song during the week in Latin. When I asked my priest about this, he said that Latin is the official language of the Church and that our parish considers this to be going back to the roots of our faith. I told him that if the Church would have been singing in Latin when I went to Mass there 3 years ago, I seriously doubt that I would have converted. We keep hearing about unity among the different faiths but, to me, this doesn't bring about unity. I understand that some people miss having Latin in the Mass, so I suggested that we alternate singing the verses in Latin and English as a compromise, but I don't think that went over very well. Singing the hymns are a big part of my worship and I'm starting to wonder if I made a mistake when I joined the Catholic Church if Latin is going to become a part of the Mass again.
Hi, Marcia, it's great to have you here on the CHNI forum.
As I was reading your post, I thought about the Eucharist, Church Authority, and Community. Rich has already stressed the Eucharist; so I'll move on to the next two.
Church Authority
Catholics don't vote on things in the way that Protestants typically do, and usually being the
squeaky wheel does not guarantee speedy or extra grease.  There is a hierarchy, and we are expected to submit graciously to the apostolic successors and church leaders. I write this in love, Marcia, and as a relatively assertive lady who knew how to impact matters and get things accomplished or get them changed in Protestant land. Those days are gone for me.
Now, my efforts are focused on humble obedience. (Poor Tina, another member here, has been trying valiantly for some time to educate the rest of us about the proper use of music in the Mass.)
Community
The Holy Father has asked us to include some Latin in our celebrations of the Mass. We can do that for him, with a loving, cheerful spirit. He does so much for us, doesn't he? In the spirit of family and community and in the spirit of John 17, we can bring joy to the Savior's heart as we work toward becoming cooperative members of the community.
I miss singing "How Firm a Foundation," "Rock of Ages," "What a Friend We Have in Jesus," "Amazing Grace," "Near to the Heart of God." In my minivan I keep CDs of those great hymns in case I feel a desire to revisit them. In Protestant churches folks often think in terms of what they enjoy and what blesses them.
In the Catholic Mass, we focus on giving to the Lord, not on receiving. Of course, as we gain understanding of Church Authority and Community, the Holy Spirit showers us with grace and blessings as we give our praise and worship together under the guidance of our leaders.
Does any of this seem reasonable to you, Marcia?
I'm glad you've joined us here. We have lots of lively discussions, and we don't always agree with each other. Peace reigns, however, for we give respect to Mr. Grodi and the mods. The real glue holding us together is deep affection for Kermie, John Conlee (the little ferret), and Kim's rats.
Join in, Marcia!
God bless,
BeckyLast edited on Wed Feb 27th, 2008 10:52 pm by Intercessor
____________________
"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
|
|
|
Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 208 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 10:46 pm |
|
We sing quite a few hymns and responses each month in Spanish, since we have a large Spanish-speaking population in our diocese. This is something the bishop established so that we would be better unified. We also sing the Kyrie in Greek sometimes.
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1382 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:59 pm |
|
Hi Marcia (from a Marsha!) and welcome. I joined the catholic church in 2006 also, at Easter vigil. There certainly are a lot of things to get used to, not only liturgy, and different languages, but a different way of thinking,now that's hard to do! I know everyone here will give you good reasons for accepting Latin and even liking it. But one way of illustrating it might be this: suppose there is a movie that is out, everyone is raving about, but it is in French with English subtitles. You want to see it but maybe you have a choice of seeing it in the authentic and original language, or seeing it with an English voiceover. You would understand what it's about, but the essence of some of the scenes would be lost in translation.
It's kind of funny, but I have the opposite attraction. I want to get as close to the original as I can. To me, if the priest had an option of using Aramaic during the consecration, that would be my preference.  I also like the idea of everyone around the world being able to hear one language and understand what is going on, and Latin would serve that purpose. But like Rick said, its not likely that mass will ever go to all Latin, all the time.
I hope you will share more thoughts with us about how you like being catholic. I understand what Becky said about missing the great old hymns. What we have now I wouldn't trade for all the hymns in the world, but I have a couple of old CDs I keep around also! And one of handbell music, now that's something you don't hear in the catholic church!
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5347 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 01:12 am |
|
Credo Catholic wrote: And one of handbell music, now that's something you don't hear in the catholic church!
Actually, I have.
As I keep saying, there is room in the Catholic Church for all valid forms of worship. I attended a Christmas mass many years ago where the music was provided by a children's bell choir. It was really not appropriate since it was more of a performance than an enhancement of the liturgy, but it was absolutely beautiful.
The children were from a home for abused children supported by the Church, and part of the celebration at the founding of our diocese. A single selection, perhaps after communion, would have been more appropriate. But it was still beautiful, and it introduced our founding bishop to the wonderful work done at this home.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
TotusTuus
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 31st, 2006 |
| Location: | Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 125 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic (thanks Mom and Dad!) |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 03:20 am |
|
I don't think I truly appreciated Latin as the Official language of the universal Church until I had the experience of making a pilgrimmage to Lourdes. There were thousands of pilgrims in Lourdes from a multitude of nations (I call it Catholic Disneyland). Having studied Latin and Spanish I was able to converse a bit with some of the pilgrims. And, during the evening Rosary processions, I recognized many of the most common languages as they were rotated through the mysteries. But, when the liturgy was celebrated for the vast crowds, it was done in the mother language of the Church: Latin. It is an incredible and humbling experience.
As Americans, we're used to hearing one language or two at the most. But when you travel overseas you begin to realize how diverse and balkanized people are. For that reason, it is a very powerful experience to be able to unite everyone in one common tongue and to realize that you are a member of the One, Universal, Catholic Church.
Last edited on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 03:21 am by TotusTuus
____________________
TTM!
|
|
|
Marcia
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 26th, 2008 |
| Location: | Butler, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 31 |
| First Name: | Marcia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Christian Missionary Alliace, Evangelical Free, Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 11:55 am |
|
I think that part of my problem is that I give praise to the Lord through singing in addition to prayer. That is why the language of the hymns means so much to me. How can I praise God through music if I don't speak or understand the language? Although I still love the hymns we sang in the Protestant church, I love the hymns of the Catholic Church even more. I have even downloaded quite a few into my computer to listen to while I'm sitting in our "office" at home. I am very fortunate that my parish sings some of the hymns, such as Amazing Grace, that I learned while I was growing up.
I'm still learning about my faith and I am so glad that I discovered this forum. It is nice to have brothers and sisters in Christ to encourage me in my faith. Thanks everyone for your advice and encouragement!
____________________
Marcia
|
|
|
sewnsew
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 842 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 02:10 pm |
|
Just a random trivia comment- I never heard the [size= Kyrie in English till I became Catholic- always in Greek I guess in my old church
]
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 02:22 pm |
|
I learned what the Kyrie meant way back in high school...the prehistoric era..
In those days we sang the great prayers and hymns of the church in, of all places, public high school.
Rich
|
|
|
Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 731 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 04:02 pm |
|
I have two neighbors who left the Church in 1969 because the change made it no longer universal. And they rightly foresaw the Protestant "service of word and table" emphasis.
Vatican II documents expressly say the Ordinary shall stay in Latin and the prayers of the people and readings may be in the vernacular. Of course, give an inch and people take a yard and Latin was thrown out to the point of no longer teaching it in some seminaries (a violation of Canon law).
The bottom line is, stick with it and things will shake out over the next century or so.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5347 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 05:34 pm |
|
Annie wrote:Vatican II documents expressly say the Ordinary shall stay in Latin and the prayers of the people and readings may be in the vernacular. Of course, give an inch and people take a yard and Latin was thrown out to the point of no longer teaching it in some seminaries (a violation of Canon law).
I don't remember ever seeing that, but even if it does, it's not particularly relevant. The Holy Father has jurisdiction over the liturgy in the Latin Rite, and it is Pope Paul VI who revised the liturgy into the vernacular. That was within the competence of his jurisdiction.
We may discuss and disagree over whether that was advisable, but there is no question it was and is legitimate. I am pleased and encouraged that our current pope is allowing and encouraging greater use of Latin, but I would personally be quite dismayed if it again became the exclusive language of liturgy.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Ali
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 656 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 07:09 pm |
|
Marcia wrote: I told him that if the Church would have been singing in Latin when I went to Mass there 3 years ago, I seriously doubt that I would have converted.
Wow, Marcia, those are strong words. You would let Latin songs keep you from God's true Church?
|
|
|
Marcia
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 26th, 2008 |
| Location: | Butler, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 31 |
| First Name: | Marcia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Christian Missionary Alliace, Evangelical Free, Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 07:31 pm |
|
Ali wrote: Marcia wrote: I told him that if the Church would have been singing in Latin when I went to Mass there 3 years ago, I seriously doubt that I would have converted.
Wow, Marcia, those are strong words. You would let Latin songs keep you from God's true Church?
I'm sorry to say that I would have let the Latin songs keep me from the Catholic Church because I would not have gone to another Mass and then to RCIA. So, I would not have known what the Church beliefs are and would not have known the truth. I would have based my "knowledge" of the Catholic faith on what was being taught about it in the Protestant church. I come from an anti-Catholic background as far as churches are concerned. My former pastor and I got into an argument when I told him at a Bible study that I was converting to Catholicism. He basically told me that I was too smart for that and it wouldn't be long until I left the Catholic Church. One of the things that kept me in RCIA was when my priest told me that if I ever heard one of his parishioners say anything bad about the Protestant church, I was to tell him and he would talk to that person. It was this acceptance of other faiths that kept me on my journey into the Catholic faith.
____________________
Marcia
|
|
|
sewnsew
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 842 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 07:52 pm |
|
| I guess I have to ask- will you let the Kryie in Greek or Latin chase you out of the church? I grew up speaking French and English then lived and worked overseas where I attended mass in Bengali and in Somali and Italian, since I have been here in the States I live on the border and have gone to Mass in Spanish for one reason or the other- I did miss hearing the readings in English and so would want to attend a church with the readings in English but I would have no objection to some of the music (or all) and some prayers in Latin. However I have to say with a few small exceptions the music sucks in my church ( sorry guys) and since the congregation hardly ever sings a return to traditional music and chants would be an improvement
|
|
|
sewnsew
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 842 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 08:17 pm |
|
| Neither the music or the everyday liturgy are what brought me into the church because I left a far more "smells n bells" Church! What brought me in was facing Anglican history and being unable to explain to my kids why the Anglican church was changing to fit with society- and most important of all the Eucharist and what has kept me here and will continue to do so through the adjustments and family turmoil is the Eucharist
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 08:18 pm |
|
Marcia wrote: Ali wrote: Marcia wrote: My former pastor and I got into an argument when I told him at a Bible study that I was converting to Catholicism. He basically told me that I was too smart for that and it wouldn't be long until I left the Catholic Church.
I can understand what you had to face. My brother-in-law is a professor at a liberal Presbyterian seminary in the mid-west and has absolutely no use for "those anti-feminist" male chauvenist pigs who wear collars." When I told him I had been reading the lives of the church fathers he sniffed, "you ought to read Bishop Spong, Marcus Borg and others who are associated with the Jesus Seminar." He'd go on and spout that direction of theology was leaving the Catholic church behind. I won't tell you what he thought of the Pope.
I can see what he'll say when I cross the Tiber. I may never see him again. And we are good friends too.
Oh well asi es la vida.
Rich
|
|
|
Ali
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 656 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 09:36 pm |
|
Marcia wrote: Ali wrote: Marcia wrote: I told him that if the Church would have been singing in Latin when I went to Mass there 3 years ago, I seriously doubt that I would have converted.
Wow, Marcia, those are strong words. You would let Latin songs keep you from God's true Church?
I'm sorry to say that I would have let the Latin songs keep me from the Catholic Church because I would not have gone to another Mass and then to RCIA. So, I would not have known what the Church beliefs are and would not have known the truth. I would have based my "knowledge" of the Catholic faith on what was being taught about it in the Protestant church. I come from an anti-Catholic background as far as churches are concerned. My former pastor and I got into an argument when I told him at a Bible study that I was converting to Catholicism. He basically told me that I was too smart for that and it wouldn't be long until I left the Catholic Church. One of the things that kept me in RCIA was when my priest told me that if I ever heard one of his parishioners say anything bad about the Protestant church, I was to tell him and he would talk to that person. It was this acceptance of other faiths that kept me on my journey into the Catholic faith.
Marcia -- I only have a minute -- I did not repsond to you with much kindness, and was rather abrupt. That is not a very good welcome to our forums I'm sorry for that. I will be back tomorrow with a more charitable comment.
All my best,
Ali
|
|
|
Hidden One
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 28th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 126 |
| First Name: | H1 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | lax Presbyterian -> pseudo-Arminian non-denom -> heretical Presbyterian -> ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 10:31 pm |
|
Marcia, you mentioned that your issue was not being able to wroship the Lord singing hymns you don't understand. I humbly suggest that there's a way to fix this - find out what they mean. Look up English translations. In the case of the Kyrie, you can learn the word-for-word translation. You don't need to be fluent in Latin or Greek, but I advise you, if you can, to explore the words. Getting the music switched to a language you udnerstand may nto be possible, but you can learn the language of the music.
____________________
1 John 4:7-12
|
|
|
DaQuodJubes
Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 31st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 16 |
| First Name: | Dan | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Former Lutheran |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 05:40 am |
|
If I may offer just a couple of comments...
The use of the Kyrie in the Greek on Sundays, and a Latin hymn on a week day doesn't sound all that radical to me. You may be more concerned about what this means down the road, ya'know, full blown mass in Latin (although I doubt that would become the only thing available in your parish). But I would like to suggest that you take this as an opportunity to enrich your understanding of worship, and to grow in your own worship "vocabulary."
The richness of the Catholic Liturgy is that it is not just a "me-and-Jesus" thing. You are worshiping with the whole church, with angels and archangels, and contemporary time has been wrapped up in something eternal, something bigger than me, and my feelings, and my thoughts, and my language.
Even within protestant worship, you use words that are outside of English vocabulary. "Amen." "Alleluia" (Is it ok to type that during lent?), "Hosanna." "Sabbaoth" (those are all Hebrew, except "Alleluia" being a Latinization of the Hebrew "Hallelu-Yah", and even in hymns, like at Christmas time, "Angels we have heard on High" with the Glo...............ria in excelsis Deo!."
So what's the big deal about the "Kyrie Eleison"? It's really just three new words. (If you consider "Christe" as a different word than "Christ." ) (Oh, and there is another Greek work even protestants use: "Christ" from "Christos", and also it's Hebrew equivalent "Messiah".
I suppose we could sing "Praise the Lord" instead of "Alleluia", and say "Anointed One" instead of "Christ" or "Messiah", and "I'm totally down with that" instead of "Amen", but at the same time, we should consider what is being lost.
I think that approaching this with an open mind and heart, one will find it very much worth it in the end. There is a great solace in being part of a worship that calls you outside of yourself, and your normal way of thinking and speaking. And there is a wonderful sense of the communion with the saints when the prayers and songs of "the church" become your own. You realize that you have gained so much more when you allow yourself to worship in the Church's terms, rather than expecting them to worship on your terms.
Dan
____________________
http://www.beatvsvir.blogspot.com
God in His omnipotence could not give more,
in His wisdom He knew not how to give more,
in His riches He had not more to give,
than the Eucharist. - St. Augustine
|
|
|
Marcia
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 26th, 2008 |
| Location: | Butler, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 31 |
| First Name: | Marcia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Christian Missionary Alliace, Evangelical Free, Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 10:50 am |
|
DaQuodJubes wrote: If I may offer just a couple of comments...
The use of the Kyrie in the Greek on Sundays, and a Latin hymn on a week day doesn't sound all that radical to me. You may be more concerned about what this means down the road, ya'know, full blown mass in Latin (although I doubt that would become the only thing available in your parish). But I would like to suggest that you take this as an opportunity to enrich your understanding of worship, and to grow in your own worship "vocabulary."
The richness of the Catholic Liturgy is that it is not just a "me-and-Jesus" thing. You are worshiping with the whole church, with angels and archangels, and contemporary time has been wrapped up in something eternal, something bigger than me, and my feelings, and my thoughts, and my language.
Even within protestant worship, you use words that are outside of English vocabulary. "Amen." "Alleluia" (Is it ok to type that during lent?), "Hosanna." "Sabbaoth" (those are all Hebrew, except "Alleluia" being a Latinization of the Hebrew "Hallelu-Yah", and even in hymns, like at Christmas time, "Angels we have heard on High" with the Glo...............ria in excelsis Deo!."
So what's the big deal about the "Kyrie Eleison"? It's really just three new words. (If you consider "Christe" as a different word than "Christ." ) (Oh, and there is another Greek work even protestants use: "Christ" from "Christos", and also it's Hebrew equivalent "Messiah".
I suppose we could sing "Praise the Lord" instead of "Alleluia", and say "Anointed One" instead of "Christ" or "Messiah", and "I'm totally down with that" instead of "Amen", but at the same time, we should consider what is being lost.
I think that approaching this with an open mind and heart, one will find it very much worth it in the end. There is a great solace in being part of a worship that calls you outside of yourself, and your normal way of thinking and speaking. And there is a wonderful sense of the communion with the saints when the prayers and songs of "the church" become your own. You realize that you have gained so much more when you allow yourself to worship in the Church's terms, rather than expecting them to worship on your terms.
Dan
My problem is not with the Kyrie Eleison because this is such a small portion of the Mass. Although, someone who isn't Catholic and is visiting the Church would probably wonder what we are singing.
| | |
