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GoFisher
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| Joined: | Mon Dec 18th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 111 |
| First Name: | Kathy | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Mth Cng Prs UM sang@RC Ep UM (MDiv) Word-Faith Charismatic-RC |
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Posted: Thu Feb 8th, 2007 05:06 am |
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Holy Spirit guides spiritual path: UMC to charismatic Word of Faith to charismatic + contemplative Catholic.
 Here is one try at writing my testimony for you. It is still in progress, so I will try to edit it and improve it more later.
These reasons are why I left UMC for the charismatic Word of Faith movement. I continue to be Spirit-led and want to grow more in that area too.
VIRTUAL-RACISM IN SOUTHERN UMC: Another major thing that bothers me about the United Methodist church is that they have segregated churches, and pastors who responded to my query in 1999 claimed the ethnic groups want it that way. This includes separate church buildings for blacks, hispanics and Koreans.
VOTING ON PASTORS: If churches do not want to receive a pastor assigned to them, they just refuse to accept them. This happened to two newly-ordained female pastors whose churches did not want women to be pastors. These women were sent to the diocese to work in administration.
VOTING ON BIBLE: They have annual meetings that are like Congress, made up of lay leaders and pastors. Currently, the lay leaders believe The Bible is true more than the old pastors do. Retired pastors are allowed to vote too so that is not fair to the new people or to the people who are being Spirit-led to act more like Jesus and wish to vote that way (for e.g. same gender unions and pastors who conduct ceremonies). Half of the group left in protest during the meeting.
SOPHIA: some female pastors were teaching liberal/wrong theology about the goddess of wisdom. That should not even be a topic of discussion. Also you cannot vote to make God a female.
SAME-GENDER UNIONS: They also voted on same gender unions, and on re-instating pastors who did the illegal ceremonies. When I ask a pastor if he would leave if they voted wrong, he said, don't worry, they won't.
PREACH THE WORD: At UMC, people made fun of me for quoting The Bible IN CHURCH! If you can't quote The Bible in Church you are not a church, but merely a country club.
MARRIAGE: It bothered me when a pastor told me that you can have a ceremony to get divorced in the UMC. It also bothered me when that pastor got a divorce instead of working out his issues. He told me I should join a church that believes the way I do. At that moment, I thought, The Catholic Church believes that couples should stay married. Last year, I learned The Church also favors the biblical definition of marriage because of the call for m-f couples to be fruitful and multiply. God made Adam and Eve, not adam and steve.
EXTRA BOOK: I had never heard of the Book of Discipline until I was in the ministry inquiry process.
THE HOLY SPIRIT IN ACTION: led many away from Reformation Era churches to join neo-pentecostal churches (charismatic non-denominational churches) when they got "baptized in the spirit" and wanted to live as Jesus prophesied when He said, "greater works than these shall you do": operating in spiritual gifts: pray in unknown tongues, pray for healing, discern spirits, cast out demons, prophesy, visions, other miracles and other charisms. Perhaps these are the churches who will unite together to form a "church without spot or blemish." In 1997, when I asked a UMC pastor if he thought churches would ever unite, he said no, that would not happen. HOWEVER, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS DOING THAT now by having folks join The Catholic Church.
CATHOLICS ARE CHARISMATIC: The Catholic Church was prepared for this lay movement of The Holy Spirit and placed Cardinal Suenens above the whole movement BEFORE the modern outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Duquesne and Notre Dame in 1967. When you review Catholic Church history, you see that miracles and charisms never stopped, but continued in various areas of The Church.
My charismatic Catholic college roomie took me to my first charismatic meeting, but then, I did not know praying in tongues was a gift possible for whoever wants to ask for it. I did not seek that until I heard more about it from Word of Faith teachers in the late 1990s. At that time, I also wanted to know the whole Bible.
CHILDHOOD: During college, I left a fellowship/prayer group (inter-varsity) when I found out the members at my school were anti-Catholic. My former step-father was Catholic, but did not teach me about it. He didn't live it much either and could not answer my question, "Why is this church called a Roman Catholic Church and some churches are called a Catholic Church?" What I did learn: the creed, and transubstantiation, but not from him. Priest said in homily, "protestants can go to heaven too". That was refreshing, especially since there were three of us in the choir. I was forced to sing in the choir at Mass as a family starting the week I was confirmed at a Methodist church. I thought all Christian denominations were created equal, and included the R.C.C. No one told me what Sacred Heart meant either, and that was the name of the church. When I asked Catholic kids I babysat what the words were to the Rosary prayer, they did not answer, and I lost two Catholic babysitting families/jobs. They were so anti-non-Catholic that they did not bother to teach anyone. Some kids threw rocks at my brother and (some hit me too) calling us Jews because they did not know it was Mass that we attended on Saturday night, and they did not know Jesus IS Jewish. As a military family, we had changed churches everytime we moved with my actual dad.
2006: Mom says: why not be Episcopalian, they are 90% Catholic. I responded, why would anyone want to be less than 100% Catholic. Some folks think I am 200% Catholic already, but I am still learning. Well, I did run into folks who do not know what a scapular is, but guess everyone does not get into that.
TO SEMINARY: While Methodists pastors suggested that I go to seminary to be a UMC pastor, I just wanted to know how to read The Bible in Hebrew (took that) and Greek (did not take that) to be able to write and sing biblically accurate songs. The vision I got that sent me to seminary was of a choir of singing ministers (you don't need ordination for that). When I asked The Lord how I could be in that choir, He said, go to seminary. I remember thinking it was strange when a UMC pastor showed me a certificate that traced his spiritual lineage back to Pope Peter via the Anglican John Wesley. When I asked Him why the M.Div. (of all the graduate degrees possible) He said, "you don't know what I will have you doing in the next twenty years." So: I went to ORU, and thought I might transfer to Asbury for the last 45 credits. When that time came, I wanted to learn more about operating by The Holy Spirit and to graduate from ORU than to be a methodist, so I joined the Word of Faith church I attended there. I also attended Mass at ORU chapel after the regular weekday chapel services. So God took me a thousand miles west to improve my spirituality. Later, He took me nearly a thousand miles east to start becoming Catholic by working with a Charismatic priest.
After seminary and a mission trip, I had an interview scheduled at a methodist church for a non-itinerating pastor job, but they canceled it when the re-married pastor who referred me to ORU told them I was "too charismatic". He changed conferences to get away from folks who knew him with his first wife. With his permission, I had been praying for them to stay married to each other. Once he blurted out to me, "I don't even think she is saved!" Obviously, he had issues. My mom spent a lot of time and money to change my return flight from overseas so I could go to the interview. Well, a few weeks later, I was working (for free) at a charismatic mission church that started while I was away at school. How twisted it is that the founding pastor told me I would have to get married before being ordained. (Well, I can't be a priest either, but that is NOT why God called me to seminary).
At the request of the UMC, O.R. and ORU were methodist from 1968-85. The 2000 General Conference voted 19 for and 800+ folks against putting ORU back on the University Senate list of UMC-approved seminaries. Same gender unions were also on the ballot. It does not make sense to be able to vote on what they think The Bible means. 1999: At a UMC, I saw a vision of the candles being put out, and the flame of The Holy Spirit going out from the cross and flame logo.
2003-2004: I preached The Creed while evangelizing in public.
2005: I studied on my own for six months prior to the start of RCIA. I had started my inquiry too late to join the 2005 class and Easter was in March that year.
WHEN YOU SING, YOU PRAY TWICE: When called upon for service at a critical time, I served as the choir director, cantor (and sometimes as the whole choir) at Catholic Masses for the whole month of March and for Holy Week. This included recruiting singers, since at times, I was the only one in the choir. Then, I stayed all year to sing The Word.
HOLINESS: While I was seeking God, trying to be holy, and trying to find out how to go to Heaven directly (without purgatory), some signs took place to get me interested in learning about The Church. On March 21, 2005, I attended the penance service, then waited in line for three hours and went to my first confession LAST since I was not Catholic yet. I told one of the priests there who saw me in line, I do not think I am protesting anything, so I am going to find out because I do not like to be called a protestant when I am not actually protesting.
SPIRIT SURPRISE: On Holy Thursday, I attended The Exposition after Mass, and was slain in The Spirit for a long time. While I was "resting in the Spirit" folks were praying The Rosary, and I noticed that it did NOT grieve The Holy Spirit. I am sure that angels made sure I did not hit my head at that time and my head landed on a big box of kleenex beside a potted plant (without tipping any soil). After viewing The Passion of The Christ on Good Friday (the next day), I was slain in the spirit at the very end of the movie where you see the hole in the Resurrected Jesus' palm.
JESUS SPEAKS: During daily Masses, The Lord said to me: Aren't you glad this isn't in Hebrew? You can be Jewish in English by being Catholic. I AM The Mass. THIS is my favorite re-enactment. He also spoke to me during my weekly solo prayer times in The Blessed Sacrament Room. I did not know I was doing "Adoration" until later.
In June 2005, I researched and made sure the priest had plenty of data and quotes on/by St Bp Irenaeus to include in his homily. I nearly chose him as my confirmation name, but went with one whose writings I already quote more readily, St. John the Evangelist. I did a paper on Irenaeus in seminary.
EVANGELISM: One time I said to the priest, I didn't know which church to refer folks to when I was evangelizing in the city, but now I know. I still wish everyone would ask for and receive their "personal unknown prayer language" and operate in spiritual gifts while we all evangelize for Jesus together.
ANOTHER WORD FROM THE LORD, 2006: I was still willing to go to whatever ecclesial body The Lord said. Now, I remember that The Lord asked me in 2005 if I would be willing to give up my miracle church. Also, He kept saying, "can you drink the cup?" because I was trying to be like the charismatic priest and the saints. So, it is significant that during my first communion, after one priest fed me the bread form of The Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, then the second priest (in another country and diocese) who did the chalice said, "take the cup" when I couldn't remember what to do when he said, "The Blood of Christ."
WORD FROM GOD: The first thing I ever got to read aloud was the SAME passage in Isaiah that JESUS got to read in The Temple (recorded in Luke 4:18); “I am anointed to preach The Good News… liberty…” When I was lectoring at a weekday Mass, The Lord said to me, “Aren’t you glad this isn’t in Hebrew?” I said, Lord you are talking to me during The Mass, and He said, “I AM THE MASS.” Then, during the consecration, The Lord said, “THIS is my favorite re-enactment.”
WIND OF SPIRIT: Once, when the charismatic priest made the sign of the cross using both the Host and Chalice together, I felt a wind push me backwards (I was already kneeling after the Sanctus) and was slain in the Spirit until the dismissal.
HEAT: When I was there alone at night where I‘d pray for five hours at a time (even having to sort-of sneak in during protestant meetings and hide out there as they locked the building), I felt heat coming out of the Blessed Sacrament in the Tabernacle.
FACE: As if that were not enough, back in The States, for twenty minutes, I saw the face of Jesus in The Blessed Sacrament that was in Exposition and during the procession until it got to the front door of the church to go back in the church. It looked like the shroud of Turin. Then, at Stations, there was a picture of the shroud of Turin in the booklet on the last page! This was the feast of St. Joseph, 19 March.
POST-CONFIRMATION ADORATION: I still hear from The Lord during Adoration. Once, He told me "go to Mary" and to go to the Mary candle area (sorry I don't know what is is called), and pray there. Then I heard Mary tell me how many prayer requests to make. This was a spiritual example of "to Jesus through Mary" which I find hard to understand, but try to be obedient in this too, in hopes of gaining that understanding.
Last edited on Thu Feb 8th, 2007 10:39 pm by GoFisher
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Love, hear + obey God: go fish! (me)
+ The Word became flesh... (St. John 1:14)
Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. (St. Jerome)
+ Follow Me... fishers of men. (St. Matthew quotes The Lord Jesus)
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GoFisher
Member
| Joined: | Mon Dec 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 111 |
| First Name: | Kathy | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Mth Cng Prs UM sang@RC Ep UM (MDiv) Word-Faith Charismatic-RC |
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Posted: Thu Feb 8th, 2007 05:30 am |
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Bless all folks reading this.
Here is what I miss about my charismatic church services: miracles of healing, prophetic words, praise and worship music for 45 minutes, prayer for healing or other miracles by fellow parishioners.
Catholics get a miracle at every Mass in The Eucharist. For charismatic ministry, Catholics form groups for praise music, miracle prayer meetings, or have healing Masses at alternate times.
Last edited on Thu Feb 8th, 2007 10:49 pm by GoFisher
____________________
Love, hear + obey God: go fish! (me)
+ The Word became flesh... (St. John 1:14)
Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. (St. Jerome)
+ Follow Me... fishers of men. (St. Matthew quotes The Lord Jesus)
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Ruthie
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houston, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 99 |
| First Name: | Ruthie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nominal Presbyterian, aetheist, evangelical Christian/Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Feb 9th, 2007 12:24 am |
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GoFisher,
In response to what you miss about your charismatic church services, I just want to tell you that it is possible to find what you are looking for in the Catholic Church. I don’t know where you are, and I’m sure you have checked out every possibility in your area.
I used to live in Reno, Nevada years ago – about 20 years ago. It was there that I became Catholic the first time. I remember attending a Charismatic Mass one evening. It was so beautifully done, so orderly, and nothing was left out. The gift of tongues was in evidence both in song and praise and as giving a word with interpretation. There was also the gift of prophecy. I don’t remember any healings but I’m sure if that was to take place, it would have. The Spirit was allowed to make Himself manifest completely. I can’t remember how they fit all this into the liturgy but it was beautifully done.
I’ve since been to only one Catholic Charismatic prayer meeting and I was not impressed. A lot was lacking, or maybe it was that I felt I myself was blocking the Spirit because of my unsolved situation that does not allow me to be in full communion with the Church yet. Anyway, it seemed disorderly to me when it came to speaking in tongues and there were none of the other gifts expressed.
But maybe you could find what you miss from those former Charismatic church services in the Catholic Church somewhere. You seem to have been given such a gift of hearing from the Lord directly. I hope He will lead you to a place that will satisfy your soul in all ways.
Ruthie
Last edited on Fri Feb 9th, 2007 12:25 am by Ruthie
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Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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GoFisher
Member
| Joined: | Mon Dec 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 111 |
| First Name: | Kathy | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Mth Cng Prs UM sang@RC Ep UM (MDiv) Word-Faith Charismatic-RC |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Fri Feb 9th, 2007 01:04 am |
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Thank you very much Ruthie! I will do more research into that. Someone from a Catholic church that is not in my zip code called me to ask if I would start a Catholic charismatic prayer meeting at my own house. Your e-mail just reminded me of that. Thanks.
____________________
Love, hear + obey God: go fish! (me)
+ The Word became flesh... (St. John 1:14)
Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. (St. Jerome)
+ Follow Me... fishers of men. (St. Matthew quotes The Lord Jesus)
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