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Lee
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| Joined: | Fri May 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Birmingham, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Lee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Charismatic-nondenom.-Presbyterian-Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 04:19 pm |
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I think (just my opinion) that the link I pasted below is a really neat website for orthodox Catholic information and news. If you click it and go down to "Lenten Fare" you will see a really funny but so true dialog with pictures between a Catholic, a Baptist, and a Pentacostal.
http://kansascitycatholic.blogspot.com/2007_02_01_archive.html
Also, today he's got a story about a 16-year-old Catholic teenager that was in the New York Times on Saturday. For that, click
http://kansascitycatholic.blogspot.com/
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 710 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 10:05 am |
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| That was an interesting link. One of the articles was about two women who were being ordained by a Catholic Bishop as priests- they were going to be offering a Mass at a Unitarian church- they considered themselves validly but illegally ordained- the article went on to mention that there were a growing number of these Women preists. . How is the church dealing with them and with the priests who are ordaining them. If they tell their congregations that they are validlly ordained and eprform a baptism or a wedding what happend when those peole move - do they get told that they have to have a conditional Baptism or have their marriage validated?
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 10:55 am |
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If they tell their congregations that they are validlly ordained and eprform a baptism or a wedding what happend when those peole move - do they get told that they have to have a conditional Baptism or have their marriage validated?
With baptisms and weddings, there seems to be no real problem, Kim. The rest of the sacraments are a different story, but these two do not require a properly ordained clergyman to be valid.
Recall that anyone, even a non-Christian, can baptize. Therefore, if the baptism is celebrated in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and real water is used, the baptism is usually valid. (There are a few cases, where the divine Trinity is not understood in the Christian sense, that the baptism would be considered invalid.)
Again, in the Latin Rite at least, the sacrament of matrimony is celebrated between the two parties being married and does not require an ordained clergyman except as a legal witness. If a civil judge or a “priestess” officiates (witnesses) at a wedding, this does not invalidate the marriage except for Catholics.
David
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 710 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 10:58 am |
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| Catholics are who I was referring to regarding the marriages - these women are calling themselves valid Roman Catholic Priests
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 11:01 am |
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| I guess I read an article like that and it worries me because that is how the first of the women priests were ordained in the Episcopal church. After enough of them had been ordained they lobbied for acceptance. I have just stepped into the relative calm of the Catholic church from the turmoil of Anglicanism and really don't want to be looking at more turmoil down the road (from within our church- I expect plenty of turmoil from without as secularism grows)
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Lee
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| Joined: | Fri May 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Birmingham, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Lee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Charismatic-nondenom.-Presbyterian-Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 11:17 am |
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Hi Kim, I do think there is a calm in the Catholic Church, the calm is the authority and orthodoxy, no matter who, within the church or without the church, tries to stir things up or threaten it.
When I was considering the Catholic Church, I felt like I had to read a lot of church history, more than I ever wanted to, because I was so concerned about becoming Catholic, when I had heard all the accusations against evil in the church through the centuries, about Bloody Mary and the Inquisition, schism, etc. And I have come to rejoice that the Catholic Church has continued throughout history, just has Jesus declared--"I will build my church"--even though there have been all along evils within and evils without, attempting to destroy what God is doing, just like they did when Jesus was here on earth. And all the while, the Catholic Church is a safe, loving home, with a Father and a Mother, and imperfect sisters and brothers. It's like a huge warship traveling the sea, throughout the centuries, no matter who or where it's enemies are.
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4977 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 11:22 am |
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Kim, I don't think their marriages would even be legally valid as their clergy status is not recognized by the Church. As for an erosion that would lead to the ordination of women, the difference is that in the Catholic Church, doctrine is not determined by popular vote. If it was, we would have condoms being handed out at youth group meetings, and birth control pills distributed at health clinics in Catholic high schools.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Robert
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Germany |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Robert | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | The whole spectrum from black to white, now 100% Catholic! |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 11:23 am |
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The Church sign thing "Lenten Fare" is super!
When I visit the US (where I was born and raised), I always have to laugh at the number of Churches in even the smallest of towns. "If you can open a Bible, you can open a Church"
But most of all it’s the signs that get me.
Some read like a menu “Wed. Pot Luck”, Fri. “Soup Kitchen”, etc.
Others read like a list of scripture used in a Phd. Dissertation “Jesus Loves You! John 3:16, or “The wages of sin is DEATH!!” Romans 6:23. Some just give you the Verse in the hope you have your PDA-Bible with ya.
It also seems that the smaller and more run down the building is, the longer the name e.g. “The true and only Apostolic Pentecostal Bible Revival Church of the Resurrected Lord of hosts in the last days of YHWH.”
In the Town in NC where my folks live there are 47 different “churches”, and the only one that doesn’t advertise is the Catholic Church! I had to call the Rectory to find out when Mass is.
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Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)
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Lee
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| Joined: | Fri May 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Birmingham, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Lee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Charismatic-nondenom.-Presbyterian-Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 11:55 am |
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Robert, That's so true. But I do think there is a happy medium. I would like to share the glorious faith of the Catholic Church more openly, in some way that is truthful and sincere. We have one Catholic Church here in Birminham that looks at all "seeker friendly." They have a permanent sign in front of the church, "Come and See. Would you like to learn more about the Catholic faith?" I think that's really neat.
The Catholic Church--it takes some figuring as to how to actually get in!
Lee
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 710 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 12:06 pm |
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Lee wrote: The Catholic Church--it takes some figuring as to how to actually get in!
That is so true- through much of my twenties I attended Catholic churches overseas-I was welcomed- even to the point that the brothers always made sure that I had transportation to and from Church. I came to the States and belonged to the Episcopal church because "that is what I was" My close friend and I talked about our faiths(she is Catholic) and how hard it was trying to get my In laws to accept a liturgical tradition but she never mentioned RCIA. I started reading apologetics beginning with Thomas Howard but I assumed that they were able to join the Church through an "in" after all they were theologians. I NEVER heard of RCIA and never realized that I could join until I changed upon this site. Now when I asked my friend if her ( our) church had such a program she said yeas and called back in an hour or so with the RCIA director's name and a phone number.
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Robert
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Germany |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 12:45 pm |
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Hi Lee,
I'm lucky!
I live in a Village with a Population of about 2700 people. At least 2000 are Catholic! Life here is determined by the Liturgical Calendar, and the largest building and only Church is ours.
There are open-air Processions on Feast Days e.g. Corpus Christi, and the largest youth group is the Alter Servers with 45 Kids.
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Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)
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Lee
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| Joined: | Fri May 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Birmingham, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Lee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Charismatic-nondenom.-Presbyterian-Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 12:54 pm |
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Sounds like Luther didn't do so well there! :o)
No wonder you're 100% Catholic! I'm in the "Bible Belt." Catholics are thought well of here. We had 3 young male (Protestant) hecklers' at our mass last Saturday night just before an infant baptism. After the homily, they began yelling out, "What about James 2:?? or John 3:??," just shouting out verses. (The homily mildly touched on the fact that Catholic doctrine does not include the belief in the rapture.) They were ushered out but continued the noise out on the sidewalk. Makes me love the Catholic Church more than ever!
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 01:53 pm |
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| wow I can't believe that someone would be rude enough to heckle in a religious service
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Lee
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| Joined: | Fri May 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Birmingham, Alabama USA |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 02:37 pm |
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Whoops! I meant to say Catholics are NOT thought well of here in Alabama. Generally though, we do not have outright protests like the hecklers. Many fundamentalist and country-type folks just quietly secretly think we are not saved.
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 02:44 pm |
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| Like my in-laws ( only sometimes they aren't that quiet either but at least they wouldn't stoop to heckling)
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 02:44 pm |
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| Like my in-laws ( only sometimes they aren't that quiet either but at least they wouldn't stoop to heckling)
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Jackie
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| Joined: | Sat May 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Jersey Shore, New Jersey USA |
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| First Name: | Jackie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 03:46 pm |
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Lee, how did you come across that site in KansasCity?
The Lenten Fare was LOL funny.
A local bb pastor (frmly catholic) agitates the community now and again with signs about homosexuality. This stirrs up the community and the local (papers) editorial columns get busy fast.
David wrote:
With baptisms and weddings, there seems to be no real problem, Kim. The rest of the sacraments are a different story, but these two do not require a properly ordained clergyman to be valid.
David this is pertaining to the courts status of marriage not the Churches?
If anything goes nowadays, I can have a little ceramony in my yard, call myself a minister of, ahhh something and perform a marriage? Providing I get a signed certificate from the local court house??!!
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kimdyuma
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 03:54 pm |
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Jackie wrote: If anything goes nowadays, I can have a little ceramony in my yard, call myself a minister of, ahhh something and perform a marriage? Providing I get a signed certificate from the local court house??!!
I have to laugh waaay back when DH and I got married he kept referring to a marriage by the JP- being fresh from overseas I didn't get the reference- finally I asked "what church is JP?" and came unglued at the thought of some govt. officail marrying us instead of an ordained clergy. We ended up with his brother a SB pastor performing the ceremony becuase my church lost their priest and the interim priests were not scheduling any weddings in the future and we needed to set the date since many of the family was flying in...
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Jackie
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 04:01 pm |
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We had 3 young male (Protestant) hecklers' at our mass last Saturday night just before an infant baptism. After the homily, they began yelling out, "What about James 2:?? or John 3:??," just shouting out verses.
Is that the way they are teaching youth to evangelize? Never the less, it is disrespect in the fullest sense of the word! My poor deceased Nana would have had apoplexy
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Lee
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| Joined: | Fri May 18th, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 04:02 pm |
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I don't remember how I stumbled on that Kansas City website, but I really related to "Wolftracker's" story. (Wolftracker is the website's author, and he says we are called to be wolf trackers - a sheep protectors.) His story is that he used to be a single guy who was very anti-orthodox. Now he's happily married, with kids, enjoys some country music (because it's the most family-friendly of commercial music), and drives miles out of his way to go to the Tridentine Rite. This is the cute way he says it:
Those of us that live in the country and attend the Tridentine Rite must drive a ways to do so. The Wolftrackers are not alone in this; for it seems that these predilections often go together.
On the way to Holy Mass we pray the Holy Rosary. And we often get there in time to also pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. That's a lot of praying. So, on the way home, we try to keep things a little light and let the children have some reward if they behaved themselves, etc.
Well, as it happens, sometimes we listen to the end of the Country Music Top 30 on the way home. Now, I used to look down my nose at country music as about as adamantly as I looked down my nose to orthodox belief. But here I am, a little farther along in life, listening to country music on the way home from the Tridentine Mass. Go figure.
'
Like in any genre of music, country music has artists to be avoided. But as far as what is available on the commercial radio, it is about as family-friendly as it gets. And, since the wolftrackers are all musical, and since country music is the middle ground upon which parents and children can agree, we enjoy it together occasionally. One artist that we all like, the one that introduced us to country music, is Josh Turner. He recently lost the Grammy for album of the year to the *ixie *hicks, whose win had nothing to do with music.
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As it happened today, on the way home from Mass, a Josh Turner song came on, one called "Me and God."
An excerpt:
Early in the morning talking it over
Me and God
Late at night talking it over
Me and God
You could say where like two peas in a pod
Me and God
He's my Father
He's my friend
The beginning
And the end
He rules the world
With a staff and rod
We're a team
Me and God.
'
I am hard pressed to think of any other artist or song who has been on the radio for some while who is as proud as Josh Turner is to say that he has a prayer life. Well, one can only ask so much of somethings, country music included, and even Josh Turner. While country music may be the only commerically viable genre that still acknowledges good and evil, its religious references are distinctly Protestant in orientation. Like I said, this is also true for Josh Turner. It is his singular fault, but one I pray occasionally he will be relieved of by converting to Roman Catholicism.
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