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Catholicism for simple people
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left coast mystic
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 Posted: Sat May 31st, 2008 04:02 pm

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I'm not sure where this post belongs, but here's my question: I have read in numerous posts that Catholicism is "a thinking person's religion" or strongly intellectual in nature or some variation of that theme.  This appeals to me because I have a great thirst for knowledge & understanding (my friends call me a walking 'Trivial Pursuits' game!).

However, my husband is a simple man in the VERY BEST sense.  He is a GODLY man, reads the Bible daily, prays (and God continually answers his prayers in amazing ways! Jas. 5:16), and relies on God to guide him through means that are simple and direct.

As I learn more about the teachings of the Church, I'm getting more concerned about how complicated all this can seem to him.  I'm hoping that he'll let me read Marcus Grodi's conversion story to him, because he'll relate to it.  I'm wondering if anyone has other suggestions for sources that explain Catholic teachings SIMPLY. I already have the "Surprised By the Truth" books, so I've got the personal conversion angle covered.  But what's out there that can bring the wonderful depth and complexity embodied in the teachings and rites of the church to someone who needs simplicity to understand something?



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Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)

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Free
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 Posted: Sat May 31st, 2008 04:43 pm

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I know the title is a little off-putting, but Catholicism for Dummies is a very good book, and it is written by two priests that appear often on EWTN. 


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Credo Catholic
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 Posted: Sat May 31st, 2008 06:37 pm

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I second the recommendation for Catholicism for Dummies.  It was practically attached to my hand for about a year, as I tried to make sense of this bewildering new world of catholicism that I was being drawn to.  I am not a scholar or a very deep person.  This book explained just about everything I needed to know about the sacraments, the history, the whys and why nots.  I used to sit with it open on my lap and follow the mass on TV, sometimes on EWTN, sometimes from Notre Dame on Sundays.  The beauty of the book is that you don't have to begin at the first chapter and read through, you can look up whatever you have a question about.  I think it's true that catholicism is more intellectual and requires study or at least more effort to learn about, simply because there is so much more to it than the baptist faith I came from. 


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BodRod
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 Posted: Sat May 31st, 2008 11:06 pm

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I think the process of coming home to the Church and remaining in the Church is a multi-step process. When I was accepted into the Church I believed quite a bit but I also needed to accept the rest, hoping that someday I would understand more and that is exactly how it worked out. I am still buying and reading books about our faith and listening to homilies every Sunday; looking forward to the days ahead when I will understand and believe more.

 I help out in RCIA in my parish and in doing so, I have observed a wide range of thinking abilities, reading abilities, speaking in a group abilities, etc. etc. etc. and I have concluded that the Catholic Church and her teachings have something for everyone. Some people may take a little more patience while others are ahead of the group but my feeling is that we all end up being accepted by God and the Church.



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left coast mystic
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 12:11 am

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Thanks, folks!  I'll get the book, and hope that my husband will be drawn by curiosity to read it.

Marcee

PS. Cliff, have you ever been to the Roy Rogers museum, or is that something only tourists go to?



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Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)

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left coast mystic
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 12:24 am

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Actually, as I think about it, probably my main fear is that my husband won't see the point in all the "rules" - the formality of it all.  There are lots of ex-Baptists on this site, and I know that this issue has to have been a tricky one for a Baptist.  Any input/encouragement/reassurance out there for me?



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Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)

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BodRod
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 01:07 am

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left coast mystic wrote: Thanks, folks!  I'll get the book, and hope that my husband will be drawn by curiosity to read it.

Marcee

PS. Cliff, have you ever been to the Roy Rogers museum, or is that something only tourists go to?

No, I never went to see it. The kids have moved it to Branson, MO now so I probably will never see it.



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BodRod
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 01:16 am

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left coast mystic wrote: Actually, as I think about it, probably my main fear is that my husband won't see the point in all the "rules" - the formality of it all. 
I had a little understanding of the Jewish beliefs and customs and that helped me a lot! Our rules are minimal when compared to the Jewish rules which numbered 600++++++. If you think about it, the Catholic Church came right out of the Jewish faith. In fact, the 1st, 2nd, and 4th popes are mentioned by name in the Bible. In a sense, our roots go way back; to Moses, to Abraham and all the way to Adam.



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Credo Catholic
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 03:38 am

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Re the rules and formality of the catholic church

That's a good question and I'll have to think about it to come up with a complete answer.  My first response is that there were next to no rules in the baptist church, which meant there were no standards to aspire to.  For every little rule or formality in the catholic church there is a time-honored prayer or devotion or meditation behind it.  And for some of the rules, such as no marriage for couples until they have received annulments of first marriages, there are holy sacraments to keep holy.  God gave us rules to begin with, in the garden of eden and later in the ten commandments.  Society has rules so we can live somewhat peaceably.  Functional homes have rules so families can live under the same roof without driving each other crazy!  But many of the rules in the church have to do with our relationship with God, not just with each other, such as not eating meat on Friday in recognition of Christ's death on Friday.  All of this is a lot to take in and takes time, which is why it takes longer to join the catholic church.  Best wishes to you and your husband, mine still has a long way to go! :eyeroll:


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Intercessor
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 03:01 pm

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left coast mystic wrote:
Actually, as I think about it, probably my main fear is that my husband won't see the point in all the "rules" - the formality of it all.  There are lots of ex-Baptists on this site, and I know that this issue has to have been a tricky one for a Baptist.  Any input/encouragement/reassurance out there for me?

Marcee,

My mother, a Baptist pastor's wife, is also a simple but godly lady. In the months when she was trying to persuade me not to become a Catholic, she said, "You know those Catholics have an awful lot of rules you have to follow." :)

I would suggest a couple of points to make with your husband.

Jesus left Peter (and his successors) in charge of His Church. When we honor and obey them, we show our love for Jesus ("If you love me, keep my commandments.") It's a matter of the heart's being changed. I obey because I love. I love Christ. I love Christ's representatives on earth. I love Christ's Church. I accept the Authority of the Church and trust in Mother Church's loving concern for the welfare of my soul. When the heart is right, when there is love, one does not "see" rules. One does not feel oppressed. Obedience becomes a profound joy and a means of being in union with God.

Baptists have quite a few "rules," actually. They differ from church to church and from pastor to pastor. Here are a few I grew up with (not all "rules" applied at all the Baptist churches at the same time---that's the problem, isn't it?); some have been abandoned as worldliness has invaded the churches.

1. Really first-rate Christians attend Sunday School, Sunday morning worship, Sunday evening worship, Sunday evening Training Union/Discipleship/Journey classes, Wednesday evening prayer meeting, Wednesday evening mission activities, and choir practice. (That's a lot.)

2. Members should tithe
3. No use or sale of alcoholic beverages
4. No dancing (including school proms)
5. No gambling (including Bingo)
6. Dress modestly always but especially for church
7. No bad language
8. Show respect for women
9. Never date a Catholic. Never marry an unsaved person.
10. Create your own prayers. Don't use "canned" prayers. :)
11. Don't believe it if it isn't in the Bible.
12. When a revival (evangelistic campaign) is held, attend every service unless ill.
13. Help in Vacation Bible School.
14. Visit the unchurched
15. Evangelize the unsaved
16. Be very friendly to the new pastor for about three months.
17. If you have a complaint, grab a deacon and twist his arm.
18. Take your turn keeping the babies in the church nursery.
19. No sex before marriage. No sex outside marriage. No gay sex.
20. No gossip.
21. No feuding.
22. Give sacrificially during a church building program

23. If you really "mess up," go forward during the invitation and rededicate your life. Be prepared to stand beside the pastor and say a few words before the congregation about your sins and your remorse (or at least to stand beside the pastor while HE briefly tells the folks that you messed up, you're sorry, and you're going to try to do better now).

24. Keep the ten commandments. Follow the principles of the beatitudes.

25. Live your life according to all the teachings of the New Testament--- includes sexual behavior, marital behavior, rearing children, obligations to parents, obligations to the government, relationships with neighbors and friends and fellow church members, reactions to suffering. In other words, every aspect of a good Baptist's life is ruled by the New Testament. Lots and lots of "rules" or expectations.

I would stress the importance of "rules" 1, 23, 24, and 25 for good Baptists and assist him in recognizing how much they cover. He will get the idea that every church has expectations, though they may be different and though the methods by which they are communicated may differ and the consequences for "disobedience" may differ.

And, of course, the poor Baptist has to figure out what the expectations are, which Baptist church is right, which of that church's various pastors was/is right --because there is no Holy Father, no Magisterium, no Catechism of the Catholic Church.

By the way, one of my favorite church "rules" was that no child is allowed to run in church. One dear lady who had taught the 4-5 year-olds forever saw to it that no child got away with that. If young mothers did not correct their children, the dear teacher did the correcting. There wasn't an unfilled seat at her funeral. Nearly everybody there (and their kids and grandkids) had learned not to run in church from that lady. -- a good "rule"

Becky

Last edited on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 08:38 pm by Intercessor



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"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.

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Credo Catholic
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 04:38 pm

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Dear Becky, I think most of those rules were your own "pastor's kid rules" but not really rules written down and given out to all the members of the church to follow!  They would be good to live by but I don't think they fit in the category of "rules" of the catholic church as in doctrines and teachings, with consequences if not followed.  Some of those on your list I remember as a child, such as no dancing or card playing (opposed formally by the Southern Baptist Convention) but they fell by the wayside as most people didn't follow them anyway.  Training Union ceased to exist somewhere between the time I got married and later returned to the church with a child in tow in the '70s.  I would say a lot of these "baptist rules" are really custom and peer pressure.  But by joining the catholic church I have come face to face with real rules that are formally given to us to follow by a real authority.  And I totally agree with what you said about the love for Christ and the Holy Trinity making following the rules a pleasure.  I love the rules! I know they are for my own spiritual welfare and for the good of the church.


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BodRod
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 04:44 pm

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Intercessor wrote:

16. Be very friendly to the new pastor for about three months.


Then what???   :headbang:


 

24. Keep the ten commandments.

What about the 4th one?  :shrugging:

Last edited on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 04:45 pm by BodRod



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Intercessor
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 08:40 pm

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Marsha, I cleaned it up a bit for you. ;)


Becky



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"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.

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Intercessor
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 08:51 pm

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BodRod wrote:
Intercessor wrote:

16. Be very friendly to the new pastor for about three months.


Then what???   :headbang:


Why, Cliff, after three months, if the new preacher didn't suit you (or if he failed to take your opinions seriously enough), you were free, of course, to begin criticizing him and resisting his leadership in hopes that he would become discouraged and not remain in that pastorate very long. There are members like that in about every church.

Few things are more dangerous than a deacon whose power is challenged or threatened by a new minister.

 

24. Keep the ten commandments.

What about the 4th one?  :shrugging:


Help me out, Cliff. Are you asking about dancing or about honoring one's parents?



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"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.

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BodRod
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 09:04 pm

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Intercessor wrote: BodRod wrote:

Why, Cliff, after three months, if the new preacher didn't suit you (or if he failed to take your opinions seriously enough), you were free, of course, to begin criticizing him and resisting his leadership in hopes that he would become discouraged and not remain in that pastorate very long. There are members like that in about every church.

Few things are more dangerous than a deacon whose power is challenged or threatened by a new minister.
So then they have roast preacher for Sunday dinner rather than roast duck???
 

24. Keep the ten commandments.

What about the 4th one?  :shrugging:

Help me out, Cliff. Are you asking about dancing or about honoring one's parents?

Opps, sorry about that. I was refering to the King James version (You know, a non-Catholic version.) where the 4th commandment is the one about keeping the Sabbath (Jewish, 7th day of week, etc.) holy. It was a day of no work, no walking too far, no this, no that, no whatever, etc.

Last edited on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 09:05 pm by BodRod



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Intercessor
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 Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 10:16 pm

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BodRod wrote:
So then they have roast preacher for Sunday dinner rather than roast duck???

You are right, Cliff. Sad, but true.
_________________________________


To Marcee

Marcee, I was given a little paperback about the Eucharist that you may be interested in trying.
Little Catechism on the Eucharist by Fr. Roberto Coggi, O.P. New Hope Publications. It's recommended by Cardinal Arinze.

Here's an URL for New Hope Publications. Scroll down to read some details about the book.
Little Catechism on the Eucharist --CLICK HERE

Also, consider ordering this:
CLICK HERE
Title: Abandonment to Divine Providence
$24.26 for four CDs or $9.90 for a paperback of 128 pages
Item #: GF1003224
Author: Jean-Pierre de Caussade

The material is simple, but profound. If you have a CD player, the two of you could listen to a bit of it together, then stop and discuss it.

Perhaps you would also be interested in these:
The Story of a Soul, autobiography of Saint Therese of Lisieux
Practicing the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence


Becky

Last edited on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 12:45 am by Intercessor



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"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.

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mg57
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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 12:40 am

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Marcee -

The Catholic Church provides Faith education for first graders through college and adult, intellectuals, blue-collar workers and sacramental preparation for down-syndrome people, all geared to "where they're at" you might say.  Don't worry about your husband being left out.

Along with the suggestions by others, here are four possiblities for you, most of which have some degree of an easier Q & A format, -

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?r=1&ISBN=9780879461058&ourl=Life%2Din%2DChrist%2FJames%2DJ%2DKillgallon


http://www.amazon.com/Compendium-Catechism-Catholic-Church-Ratzinger/dp/1574557203


http://www.amazon.com/Father-McBrides-Family-Catechism-Catholic/dp/0879739304/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212366140&sr=8-15

http://www.amazon.com/Father-McBrides-College-Catechism-Campuses/dp/0879733462/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212366140&sr=8-11






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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 10:35 pm

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I think Catholic and Christian, by Alan Schreck, is an excellent introductory book. Could be just the thing. Used copies are available for as low as $4.70, right now on amazon.



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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/

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Dave Armstrong
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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 10:50 pm

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Also, you might want to consider the pamphlet or short tract format.

Grotto Press offers "cartoon tracts": done by my friend Dan Grajek.

Our Sunday Visitor offers a series of pamphlets as well.

I believe Catholic Answers also has some excellent apologetics-oriented tracts. I couldn't find a link, though.

My own New Catholic Answer Bible (I'm co-author with Paul Thigpen)offers 88 one-page inserts on apologetics topics, and my One-Minute Apologist gives two pages for each question (presented as an objection from a Protestant). You can read excerpts from the latter on my site, at the link I gave, to see if it would be useful.

I have lots of short papers on many topics and just recently put together a collection of papers on "Biblical Evidence for so-and-so".

I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but if I have resources available that may be what your husband is looking for, then nothing wrong in mentioning 'em, I figure. If you have water, and it may quench someone's thirst, you offer it. Most of it is available for free. I'm not getting rich being an apologist with a family of six, and being the sole breadwinner, I can assure everyone! :D



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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/

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left coast mystic
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 Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 12:54 am

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Thanks all!

I had forgotten about Brother Lawrence.  My husband and I - along with most of the people in our faith community - read his story when we were young Christians (nearly 40 years ago!)  It's very encouraging in this context because Brother Lawrence in simple faith focused on his love of God, which exactly describes my husband.  When he can see that in the Catholic church he's free to be fully what God has already shaped him to be, I doubt that there will be any hesitation.  It's just that on the surface the Catholic church is so very different from what he's used to. 

And Dave, you are such a blessing to us all!  I pray that our wonderful God will increase His provision to you - not financially, which is truly the least of it, but in every area of life.



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In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)

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roxyorthodoxy
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 Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 09:33 pm

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My own New Catholic Answer Bible (I'm co-author with Paul Thigpen)offers 88 one-page inserts

I bought this book about a year or two ago and have enjoyed it very much!  I was happy that you co-authored it with Paul Thigpen.

 

roxy orthodoxy


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Ali
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 Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2008 10:56 am

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left coast mystic wrote: I have read in numerous posts that Catholicism is "a thinking person's religion" or strongly intellectual in nature or some variation of that theme.  my husband is a simple man in the VERY BEST sense.  My dh, too, isn't a great philosopher.  Heck, for that matter, neither am I.  I enjoy our discussions here, but DaveA's papers are a bit much for me to take in all at one time ( ;) still love ya, though, Dave!)  Most people of faith, IMO/E are not great thinkers

left coast mystic wrote:
He is a GODLY man, reads the Bible daily, prays (and God continually answers his prayers in amazing ways! Jas. 5:16), and relies on God to guide him through means that are simple and direct. And if they are not great thinkers, then they must have faith.  Strong to the core faith.  Those are the people who read the Bible every day, pray and rely on God to guide them.  They don't really ask for or expect much more.  Hebrews 11 vs 1 is one of my best love scriptures -- Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

left coast mystic wrote:
As I learn more about the teachings of the Church, I'm getting more concerned about how complicated all this can seem to him. I'm wondering if anyone has other suggestions for sources that explain Catholic teachings SIMPLY. I ~listened~  and ~observed~ A quiet place in my heart where I kept it all until I was ready to act on it.  It did not take great tomes to convince me.  It doesn't take reading about all the heavy theology of the Church and all Her {whatever} to know that God blesses us and that He works in our everyday lives.  I mean, yes it is great to have those readings, but we can have a depth of faith without them.

Someone once referred to the Catholic faith like an ocean.  You can wade in a just a bit to get your feet wet (basic faith and acceptance), you can swim way out to the  deepest parts (deep theology) or decide to swim anywhere in the middle that you are comfortable with.  There is something for everyone, and no one has to feel left out or different because their approach isn't like the next person's.

left coast mystic wrote:
But what's out there that can bring the wonderful depth and complexity embodied in the teachings and rites of the church to someone who needs simplicity to understand something?Honestly?  My dh loves those little prayer books and books that have daily readings in them.  We get these Living Faith http://www.livingfaith.com/ (large print, thankyouvermuch) devotions that have a scripture, then a thought and prayer, followed by a few more more scripture references to look up.

Saint stories that are like one page long.  Just enough to hit the highlights and offer some reflection. 

And (don't laugh!) we have lots of kid books regarding the Catholic faith around the house, you would be surprised how simply helpful those are!  I mean, they are written for kids, so of course an adult can comprehend them.  It's just like getting your feet wet, a little bit of information.  Not so much to overwhelm you, but enought to whet your courisoty.  Then you can move on to more specific info somewhere else.

Of course, don't overlook any kind of class or Bible study offered through the parrish.  I love those!!  Open discussion is the best for me to further and understand my faith.  It also helps me to articulate my thoughts so I can share with others.

All my best,
Ali


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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist


Joined: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007
Location: Melvindale, Michigan USA
Posts: 1627
First Name: Dave
Gender: Male
Faith History: Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influence