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MissMusicTeacher
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| Joined: | Mon Jun 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | Silicon Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 24 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | EVFree, Catholic seeker |
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 10:46 pm |
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I've written up a pretty solid list of books defending the Catholic Faith. I think it is only fair, however, for me to look at the opposing side. I have not encountered much anti-Catholicism, in the books I have read or the people I speak with, so I'm not aware of many books that fall into that category. I think it is important for me to understand both sides of the issue so I can truly make an informed decision, as well as defend my faith if I do at some point become Catholic.
This is a rather strange question to ask on a Catholic forum, I know  but can anyone recommend books of this kind?
A couple on my list are:
- "Roman Catholicism" by Loraine Boettner
- "The Shape of Sola Scriptura" - not specifically anti-Catholic but it does address one of the key differences between Catholics and Protestants
Any others?
Thanks! 
Laura
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out of town until August 2
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 825 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 11:25 pm |
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| In my opinion, Seventh-day Adventists are among the most hateful anti-Catholic groups in the world. You might check out their book, The Great Controversy between Christ and Satan by Ellen G. White. BTW, to become a member of that religion, one is REQUIRED to state that they accept her as a prophet and the church refers to her and her writings as the "Spirit of Prophecy" even though, to my knowledge, she NEVER prophecied anything that ever came true AND stated that God had shown her some things which would happen and that NEVER happened. Last edited on Tue Jul 1st, 2008 11:25 pm by BodRod
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Roaming Catholic
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| Joined: | Fri Feb 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | St. Catharines, Ontario Canada |
| Posts: | 21 |
| First Name: | Tim | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised RC, Pentecostal, Baptist, Mennonite, Anglican, Evangelical-Missionary |
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 11:25 pm |
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Laura,
Welcome to the forum. I tend to approach things in a similar way - trying to look at both viewpoints. However, I've been looking for the past year for any books from an evangelical perspective that will honestly tackle with integrity the Catholic Church's claims. I keep thinking that with a number of evangelicals crossing the Tiber, someone must be trying to stem the tide by writing a book to debunk those crafty Catholic apologists - but so far I haven't found anything. I do know there's no point in even considering the Boettner book. One book I have started reading is Evangelicals and Tradition by D.H. Williams who is a reputable scholar. He proposes in the preface & introduction to disprove Cardinal Newman's thesis that "to be deep in history is to cease to be protestant," and that no one faith tradition (i.e. Roman Catholicism) can claim to be the sole inheritor of the Tradition found in the early church. However, from what I know of the early church and the apostolic fathers, I can't see how he's going to do this. I'm curious if anyone else on the forum has tackled this book and would have feedback on it?
Tim
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 825 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 11:31 pm |
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Laura,
What music do you teach? I am rather skilled in the music department. I can play the CD player in BOTH the house and the truck!!! 
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2282 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 05:07 am |
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Laura, I'm not sure what you are looking for in the way of arguments against Catholicism, but I would prefer to steer you away from authors such as Loraine Boettner and Jack Chick simply because they are not scholars and are not honest in their criticisms. I've run across many other anti-Catholics who just don’t know — or don’t care — what they are saying; that will do you no good at all. On the other hand, Keith Mathison, the author of the other book you list, is a reputable scholar, and what he says is worth reading.
Some other authors you may want to consider: RC Sproul, Ravi Zacharias, Walter Martin, Josh McDowell, John MacArthur, Albert Mohler, Allistair Begg, Lee Strobel, Greg Bahnsen, James White, James Kennedy, Hank Hanegraaff, Norman Geisler, Charles Colson, Francis Schaeffer.
I’ve culled these names from other people’s recommended lists. (I almost pulled James White’s name because he is widely known for his ad hominem attacks, which tend to get in the way of sound reason. But he does deal with the issues honestly on occasion if he thinks he is “winning.” By the way, his sister is a convert to Catholicism.) Probably our resident apologist, Dave Armstrong, who deals directly with many Protestant apologists and scholars, can recommend a better set. No matter whom you read, be prepared for a certain amount of distortion of Catholicism, simply because these people are viewing it from the outside. But I think that by and large those I've listed try to deal with real issues and approach them in a reasonable and scholarly manner.
DavidLast edited on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 07:19 pm by Dave Armstrong
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kersca
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| Joined: | Fri May 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 89 |
| First Name: | Adam | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 11:52 am |
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Laura,
Are you looking for anti-catholic books or books that state their perspective in a positive manner rather than criticize the Catholic teaching. Most good Catholic books do not argue for Catholicism because the other denominations are wrong. Most good books argue that catholicism must be right because of the solid, historical, and scriptural teachings. Don't get me wrong, I read both sides of an issue most of the time. I just try to read positive things, whether Catholic or Protestant.
Adam
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 01:14 pm |
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David W. Emery wrote: Laura, I'm not sure what you are looking for in the way of arguments against Catholicism, but I would prefer to steer you away from authors such as Loraine Boettner and Jack Chick simply because they are not scholars and are not honest in their criticisms.
Good point. It is my understanding that the Ellen G. White, I mentioned before, had a third grade education and plagiarized most of the book she claimed to write, pictures and all!
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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MissMusicTeacher
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jun 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | Silicon Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 24 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | EVFree, Catholic seeker |
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 05:58 pm |
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kersca wrote: Laura,
Are you looking for anti-catholic books or books that state their perspective in a positive manner rather than criticize the Catholic teaching.
I guess I am looking more for books that state their viewpoints in a positive manner rather than bashing Catholics. From what I have seen, Catholic-bashing is usually inaccurate, anyways. Out of curiosity, I read a few tracts by Jack Chick (fully knowing that he distorts Catholic beliefs) and I was repulsed.
Thank you everyone for the book recommendations, as well as the author list from David. I will look into those.
BodRod wrote: Laura,
What music do you teach? I am rather skilled in the music department. I can play the CD player in BOTH the house and the truck!!!
Piano and music history.
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out of town until August 2
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1882 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 06:51 pm |
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What books critical of Catholicism or ones that defend Protestant distinctives can be recommended to Catholics or non-Catholics inquiring about Catholicism, in good conscience?
The Shape of Sola Scriptura (2001) by Keith Mathison is an excellent volume. It's the best treatment of that crucial subject from a Protestant that I've found (largely, no doubt, because Mathison isn't anti-Catholic). I've responded to several of his arguments and have a link to another good Catholic critique:
How Different (In Nature and Ultimate Effect) Are SolO Scriptura and SolA Scriptura? (+ Part II) (vs. Keith Mathison)
Greg Krehbiel's Review of Keith Mathison's The Shape of Sola Scriptura
For many arguments against sola Scriptura, see my web page on that topic.
The best single book critical of Catholicism: intelligent, stimulating, and fair (though ultimately, I think -- as one would expect of an apologist! -- able to be fairly easily refuted) is eminent Protestant apologist Norman L. Geisler's book:
Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences (co-author Ralph E. MacKenzie, 1995)
Again, like Mathison, Geisler is an ecumenical Protestant rather than an anti-Catholic, which makes a huge difference in both tone and content, and enables him to fairly present the Catholic positions without distortion, so that real positions are critiqued, and not caricatures. Another book that looks similar to this one is by Protestant historian Mark Noll (a solid and fair scholar):
Is the Reformation Over?: An Evangelical Assessment of Contemporary Roman Catholicism by Mark A. Noll and Carolyn Nystrom (2008)
Buy new: $19.99 $14.99 19 Used & new from $11.41
Catholic convert Fr. Dwight Longenecker has co-authored several "friendly dialogue" books with Protestants, that are very helpful in this regard:
Mary: A Catholic-Evangelical Debate by Dwight Longenecker and David Gustafson (2003)
Buy new: $14.99 $11.24 31 Used & new from $1.88
Why Do You Believe That?: A Protestant-Catholic Conversation by John Schwarz and Dwight Longenecker (2005)
Buy new: $12.99 18 Used & new from $9.21
Challenging Catholics: A Catholic Evangelical Dialogue by Dwight Longenecker and John Martin (2002)
Buy new: $10.99 16 Used & new from $6.98
Here are a few more fair-minded and intelligent treatments of Catholicism from Protestants:
A tale of two churches: Can Protestants & Catholics get together? by George Carey (1985)
22 Used & new from $0.22
Protestants and Catholics: A Guide to Understanding the Difference Among Christians by Peter Toon (1984)
15 Used & new from $1.29
Another way to read about constructive Catholic-Protestant dialogue is to check out the many volumes of high-level ecumenical talks (notably the Lutheran-Catholic dialogues). These books, while primarily ecumenical, also give readers a sense of the real differences and how charitable men and women of good will on both sides work through the issues. These have the advantage of readers being able to read both sides and to enjoy fruitful dialogue, for the purpose of better mutual understanding:
Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue I-III by Paul & T. Austin Murphy (ed.) Empie (1970)
1 Used & new from $7.00
Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue 2: One Baptism for the Remission of Sins by Murphy, T. Austin Empie Paul C. (1967)
1 Used & new from $4.00
Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue III: The Eucharist as Sacrifice, 1967.
Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue IV: Eucharist and Ministry, 1970.
Papal Primacy and the Universal Church (Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue ; V) by Paul Empie (1974)
16 Used & new from $0.19
Justification by Faith: Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue VII, 1985.
J. Francis Stafford, Harold C. Skillrud, and Daniel F. Martensen, Scripture and Tradition: Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue IX (Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue), 1995.
The Church as Koinonia of Salvation: It's Structures and Ministries (Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue, X) (Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue) by Randall Lee and Jeffry Gros (2005)
Buy new: $34.95 $27.61
Promoting Unity: Themes in Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue by H. George Anderson and James R. Crumley (1990)
9 Used & new from $2.61
((( See the amazon listings page for many of these titles available from many different booksellers )))
Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, [Lutheran World Federation and Catholic Church], Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2000.
Evangelicals and Catholics Together: Toward a Common Mission by Charles Colson and Richard John Neuhaus (1995)
Your Word Is Truth: A Project of Evangelicals and Catholics Together by Charles Colson and Richard John Neuhaus (2002)
A House United - Evangelicals and Catholics Together (Building Alliances Among Christians of All Confessions and Traditions) by Keith A. Fournier and William D. Watkins (1994)
Other books along these lines that I don't know much about, but that look helpful:
Rereading Paul Together: Protestant and Catholic Perspectives on Justification by David E. Aune (2006)
Buy new: $26.00 $23.40
Catholics and Evangelicals: Do They Share a Common Future? by Thomas P. Rausch (2000)
Buy new: $12.95 34 Used & new from $1.99
Evangelicals and Tradition: The Formative Influence of the Early Church (Evangelical Ressourcement: Ancient Sources for the Church's Future)
by D. H. Williams (2005)
Tradition, Scripture, and Interpretation: A Sourcebook of the Ancient Church (Evangelical Ressourcement: Ancient Sources for the Church's Future) by D. H. Williams (2006)
A High View of Scripture? The Authority of the Bible and the Formation of the New Testament Canon (Evangelical Ressourcement: Ancient Sources for the Church's Future) (2007) by Craig D. Allert
I would never recommend that a person exclusively read anti-Catholic materials because in my experience they always (without exception) distort the Catholic positions they are trying to shoot down. In other words, they are (overall, or as a general rule) "refuting" a straw man and not the actual Catholic positions. The following are the leading anti-Catholics today and in recent times who have authored books about Catholicism:
James White (books: one / two / three / four / five / six / see Patrick Madrid's classic 1993 critique of White in This Rock)
Eric Svendsen (books: one / two / three / see Catholic apologist Phil Porvaznik's reply to Svendsen's ridiculous "$100,000 challenge")
William Webster (I've refuted Webster's uninformed historical arguments twice: one / two)
James G. McCarthy (see a reply to his book by Phil Porvaznik)
David T. King (see my refutation of his atrociously misinformed attack on Cardinal Newman)
Lorraine Boettner (deceased; see a scathing review of his book by Protestant Chris Johnson)
John Ankerberg (see my lengthy reply to his book)
Bart Brewer (deceased; see Karl Keating's article on him)
Ron Rhodes (see a critique of his book by Catholic apologist "Matt1618")
Dave Hunt (see a critique of Hunt's methods, by Catholic W. Robert Aufill)
Robbie Zins (see an in-depth critique of his outlook by Protestant Douglas Gwinn)
I've interacted with almost all of these men in some fashion. If someone is deterined to read the anti-Catholic position for study purposes, I would strongly recommend to at least do so by reading a debate with a Catholic apologist or theologian or a corresponding book by a Catholic on the same topic. That way, you can clearly see how weak their arguments are, and how they twist and distort Catholic positions, and you'll be able to instantly see how Catholics can answer. I have lots of debates on my Anti-Catholicism web page.
Be forewarned that I use a lot of humor and sometimes sarcasm in response to the massive personal attacks they have thrown my way (and also the lousy, abominable reasoning used), rather than losing my cool and exploding. Some people don't care for the humor and (at times) satire. That's fine. I've done the best I could in the circumstances, I think. Unfortunately, it's part of apologetics (ad hominem and attacks on one's "scholarly integrity") that can't be avoided. For this reason, and because I have always thought the anti-Catholic position is viciously self-defeating and internally incoherent (see a notorious example from James White), I no longer engage in serious debates with anti-Catholics, having done more than enough of my share already.
I would strongly recommend that inquirers stay away from these anti-Catholic materials. The legitimate scholarly books I recommend above amply cover all these same theological bases without the nonsense and distortions and relentless polemical anti-Catholic agenda.
Last edited on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 07:02 pm by Dave Armstrong
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 07:25 pm |
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Some other authors you may want to consider: RC Sproul, Ravi Zacharias, Walter Martin, Josh McDowell, John MacArthur, Albert Mohler, Allistair Begg, Lee Strobel, Greg Bahnsen, James White, James Kennedy, Hank Hanegraaff, Norman Geisler, Charles Colson, Francis Schaeffer.
Just for information's sake: Sproul, MacArthur, Mohler, Bahnsen, White, and Kennedy are all anti-Catholics, and Schaeffer was close to it (his analyses of Catholicism are pretty lightweight and filled with significant bias, if not technically anti-Catholic).
I know that Martin, McDowell (I met both of them), Hanegraaf, Geisler, and Colson are not anti-Catholic.
I don't know for sure about Zacharias, Begg, and Strobel, but my guess would be that they aren't anti-Catholic, either.
It makes a huge difference in a person's writing, method, and conclusions, whether they consider Catholicism as a Christian system of theology or not.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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MissMusicTeacher
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jun 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | Silicon Valley, California USA |
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| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | EVFree, Catholic seeker |
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Posted: Fri Jul 4th, 2008 12:10 am |
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Dave, thanks so much for taking the time to respond with such a thorough listing of resources! I'm eager to dig in now that I am finished with school for the summer.
Laura
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out of town until August 2
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
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Posted: Mon Jul 7th, 2008 02:58 pm |
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| My pleasure. I was happy to do it because I think such a list can have general value. I put it on my blog, too. I love doing any sort of "recommended book lists" -- being such a bookworm meself.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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