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Mark9.24
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| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | cradle methodist - agnostic/atheist - in the process of converting |
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 12:06 am |
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I've read some of Triumph! (by a convert, and a little too apologetic IMHO), Bokenkotter, and Kung, the last two being considered by many too liberal and/or divisive.
So, are there any histories out there that can bridge this gap, balancing scholarship and criticism while being faithful to the Church?
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 01:23 am |
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I’ve read Triumph and had similar feelings about it. The blatant apologetics were intentional, according to the author, and I think they destroyed some of the credibility of the work. He is not a historian by trade, either.
You might try this one, Mark. It is the first volume in a series, referenced on the linked page. I have not read it myself, but it comes highly recommended. The author is both a historian and very orthodox in outlook. In addition to the credits mentioned on the page, he hosted the Expert Q&A on Christian History on the EWTN website for several years.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 03:29 am |
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Mark9.24 wrote: So, are there any histories out there that can bridge this gap, balancing scholarship and criticism while being faithful to the Church?
It just so happens I am teaching a class starting tomorrow night on Church History for my diocese. The text is Pilgrim Church: A Popular History of Catholic Christianity by Fr. William J. Bausch, published by Twenty-Third Publications.
I really haven't gone far enough into the book to have an opinion yet, and some of the reviews quoted on the opening pages make me wonder, but I haven't found anything yet that I would consider problematic.
I have read some other books by Fr. Bausch for ministry classes I've taken, and haven't really found any of the content objectionable, although some of it didn't necessarily meet my taste. I supposed the real test will be his focus on the post-Vatican II Church, but it will be several weeks before I reach that point.
CatholicCulture says he is "known to many as a quite liberal and controversial priest." I also recognize that some of the CatholicCulture reviewers take their orthodoxy to the extreme.
I'll let you know what I think in a few weeks.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Mark9.24
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| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | cradle methodist - agnostic/atheist - in the process of converting |
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 03:30 am |
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Thanks for the link, David. Looks like an excellent series, although I'm afarid Christ might return before I am able to finish it.  
Here are a few others I'm considering: The Catholic Church through the Ages: A History by Vidmar, and The Compact History of the Catholic Church by Schreck.
Also, in my last post I mentioned a history that's faithful to the Church. Aren't these books sometimes inscribed with Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur?
Anyway, thanks for your help.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 09:43 pm |
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Mark, I’m not familiar with the Vidmar book. The one by Schreck, which I do have, is faithful but far too short. You can’t do 2,000 years of history in a little over 100 pages without leaving out a lot. But for some people, it’s the right length. 
The Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur are a requirement for books which get into doctrine. But history is not doctrine, even though doctrine often plays a part in Church history. So these attestations are not usually included for history books. And even if they are included, the signatories do not necessarily share the author’s viewpoint. Their purpose is solely to certify that the material does not contradict Catholic doctrine.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 12:29 pm |
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David W. Emery wrote: The Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur are a requirement for books which get into doctrine.
To expand a little on what David said, these approvals are a sign to the faithful that the publication does not violate Catholic teaching. It is not required that a book bear these imprints in order to be published, nor is it required that a book bear these imprints for a Catholic to read them. These marks are signals to the reader that the content is reliable, so they should be a self-imposed requirement for any publication used in teaching oneself or others, or for anything used as reference. I will not buy a book that claims to represent Church teaching or belief and fails to carry those marks. Even well-known authors can make mistakes, so the marks at the very least show that the material has been reviewed for errors by someone familiar with Church teaching.
Frankly, however, the imprint is only as good as the person granting it. Still, it is a good starting point to look for those marks, usually on the copyright page, before purchasing any book involving Catholic teaching.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Carlus Magnus
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| First Name: | Leo | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Baptist, Pentecostal, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Aug 24th, 2007 05:28 pm |
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Might I suggest A history of the Catholic Church to the eve of the Reformation by Philip Hughes http://www.catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/history/history.htm
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Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat catholicam fidem: Quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternum peribit.
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mg57
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Fri Aug 24th, 2007 10:50 pm |
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In addition to the Hughes series mentioned by Carlus, last year I wrote Dr. James Hitchcock and he warmly recommended the multi-volume series by Henri Daniel-Rops. It is also written in an accessable style for us non-academics, is first-rate and very thorough without any polemics.
Dr. Hitchcock is currently working on a one volume book for Ignatius Press.
Another excellent thorough, popular work designed as a course book for RCIA, high school through college, etc., is the recent "The History Of The Church: A Complete Course", - part of the Didache Series put out by the Midwest Theological Forum, Woodbridge , Ill., 2005-2007.
It contains study guides at the end of each chapter ( 21 chapters) and a 14 page index ( very small type). It goes for around $ 45. - hardcover only. I use mine as a reference as well as a read-through.
For purely reference / research, the four volume series - "Patrology" by Johannes Quasten is a wonderful resource, - available from Ignatius Press.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Aug 28th, 2007 03:39 pm |
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Carlus Magnus wrote: Might I suggest A history of the Catholic Church to the eve of the Reformation by Philip Hughes http://www.catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/history/history.htm
Leo, I'm sorry I missed your first post. I try to welcome all new users on the same day as their first post, but sometimes I miss 'em! Welcome to the Coming Home Network. We're glad to have you here with us and look forward to reading your faith story when you're ready to share it with us. Please feel free to look around and jump in whenever you see a discussion that interests you, and of course any questions you might have are welcomed, too.
Welcome home.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Carlus Magnus
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Posted: Wed Aug 29th, 2007 07:18 pm |
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Hi, don't worry about it, it's just a greeting.
I'll type one sometime when can find the time, perhaps just a simple one paragraph one would do?
CajunRick wrote: Carlus Magnus wrote: Might I suggest A history of the Catholic Church to the eve of the Reformation by Philip Hughes http://www.catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/history/history.htm
Leo, I'm sorry I missed your first post. I try to welcome all new users on the same day as their first post, but sometimes I miss 'em! Welcome to the Coming Home Network. We're glad to have you here with us and look forward to reading your faith story when you're ready to share it with us. Please feel free to look around and jump in whenever you see a discussion that interests you, and of course any questions you might have are welcomed, too.
Welcome home.
____________________
Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat catholicam fidem: Quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternum peribit.
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mgtownsend
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 09:56 am |
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Thanks for all the recommendations for books on Church history. I am currently reading one that is from a Protestant perspective. I didn't know for sure that it would be until I got into it. Aside from that, I was enjoying the read. It started out sounding very balanced and factual. A few clues appeared here and there when he spoke about the history of the papacy. But then, in the pre-reformation, his perspective becomes very clear.
The book is "Church History in Plain Language," by Bruce Shelley. I would love to have a book as easy to read with as much detail as this one, but written from the Catholic perspective or from a completely unbiased perspective, if there is such a thing.
Thanks for all your suggestions!
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 04:07 pm |
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Here are some that I recommend:Belloc, Hilaire, Europe and the Faith, Rockford, IL: TAN Books & Pub., 1992 (orig. 1920), 191p.
Civardi, Luigi, How Christ Changed the World, tr. Sylvester Andriano, Rockford, IL: TAN Books & Pub., 1991 (orig. 1961), 111p.
Newman, John Henry Cardinal, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, 1845; rev. 1878, Notre Dame, IN: Univ. of Notre Dame Press, 1989, 445p. Available online:
http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/index.html
Schreck, Alan, The Compact History of the Catholic Church, Ann Arbor, MI: Servant Books, 1987, 189p. Carroll, Warren H., The Founding of Christendom, (A History of Christendom, vol.1), Front Royal, VA: Christendom Press, 1985, 605p.
Carroll, Warren H., The Building of Christendom, (vol.2), Front Royal, VA: Christendom Press, 1987, 618p.
Carroll, Warren H., The Glory of Christendom (A History of Christendom, vol. 3), Front Royal, VA: Christendom Press, 1993, 774p.
Carroll, Warren H., The Cleaving of Christendom (A History of Christendom, vol. 4), Front Royal, VA: Christendom Press, 2000, 801p.
Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, tr. G.A. Williamson, Baltimore: Penguin, 1965 (orig. c.325 A.D.), 429p.
Pelikan, Jaroslav, The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine: Vol. 1 of 5: The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition, Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Press, 1971, 394p., [Lutheran; later became Orthodox]
Chesterton, G.K., St. Francis of Assisi, Garden City, NY: Doubleday Image, 1924, 158p.
Chesterton, G.K., Saint Thomas Aquinas: "The Dumb Ox", Garden City, NY: Doubleday Image, 1933, 198p.
Ball, Ann, Modern Saints, Rockford, IL: TAN Books & Pub., 1983, 457p.
Hitchcock, James, The Decline and Fall of Radical Catholicism, Garden City, NY: Doubleday Image, 1971, 198p.
Kelly, George A., The Crisis of Authority, Chicago: Regnery Gateway, 1982, 115p.
Martin, Ralph, A Crisis of Truth, Ann Arbor, MI: Servant Books, 1982, 245p.
Martin, Ralph, The Catholic Church at the End of an Age, San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1994, 309p.
Last edited on Mon Dec 10th, 2007 04:10 pm by Dave Armstrong
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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