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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 05:06 pm |
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| I think I'm beginning to understand God the Father as one person of the Holy Trinity, and Jesus the Son as another person of the Holy Trinity. In my mind I have a somewhat vague image of God the Father because when I pray or even think of Him I need some image to focus on. But I have some trouble picturing the Holy Spirit. Many paintings and stained glass windows show the Holy Spirit descending as a dove. Others show flames above the heads of the apostles and Mary at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit lives within us and is all around us. Is the Holy Spirit a person who will have a true image in heaven?
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 05:41 pm |
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Credo Catholic wrote: Is the Holy Spirit a person who will have a true image in heaven?
Will we? Will the Father/God?
We know there are two people in heaven who have a physical (although glorified) manifestation: Jesus and Mary. We have no idea what the "image" of any other being will be, whether it is Father/God, Spirit/God, the angels, the canonized saints, or your grandmother. We know that there will come a time when physical existence will merge with glorified spiritual existance into a "new creation" that will be us but not us because it will be perfected (which we most certainly are not). But that won't happen until the end of the world.
So yes, the Holy Spirit is a true person, part of the Triune God, the Lord and Giver of Life. We know that the Sprit has come into human existance as wind and as fire among other things, but we have no idea of the real "image" of our Father/God or Holy Spirit/God. To assign either the Father or the Spirit "image" is to limit and humanize them, and God is without limit.
So the real answer to your question is we have absolutely no idea.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Pani Rose
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| Location: | Irondale, Alabama USA |
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| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 04:08 pm |
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The Romanians have an interesting icon of the Trinity, some say it is more folk art, but still interesting. Also, the fact that they painted their icons on glass, for that is all they had. A bit strange as first glance, but it does deliver home that the Triune God is one person, three God Heads, but one God. Like our Rajin' Cajun' says it is really hard to depict. In most iconongrahy you see the rays of light coming from a circle above, God's hand coming out of that circle blessing, or a dove.
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
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| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical "Jesus Freak" (Arminian) / "Lewisian Schaefferite" / Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 07:20 pm |
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We can't really visualize the Holy Spirit, but the "picture" of a person (human or Divine) is also seen in many other aspects besides visual. I have compiled a long list of personal attributes of the Holy Spirit that may help to better comprehend this Third Person of the Holy Trinity:
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON: FORTY PERSONAL ATTRIBUTES
1) Helps: Jn 14:16,26, 15:26, 16:7, Rom 8:26, 1 Jn 2:1.
2) Glorifies: Jn 16:13-14.
3) Can be Known: Jn 14:17.
4) Gives Abilities: Acts 2:4, 1 Cor 12:7-11.
5) Referred to as "He": Jn 14:26, 15:26, 16:7-8,13.
6) Loves: Rom 15:30.
7) Guides: Jn 16:13.
8) Comforts: Jn 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, Acts 9:31.
9) Teaches: Lk 12:12, Jn 14:26.
10) Reminds: Jn 14:26.
11) Bears Witness: Jn 15:26, Acts 5:32, Rom 8:16.
12) Has Impulses: Jn 16:13.
13) Hears: Jn 16:13.
14) Leads: Mt 4:1, Acts 8:39, Rom 8:14.
15) Pleads: Rom 8:26-27.
16) Longs (Yearns): Jas 4:5.
17) Wills: 1 Cor 12:11.
18) Thinks: Acts 15:25,28.
19) Sends: Acts 13:4.
20) Dispatches: Acts 10:20.
21) Impels: Mk 1:12.
22) Speaks: Jn 16:13-15, Acts 8:29, 10:19, 11:12, 13:2.
23) Forbids: Acts 16:6-7.
24) Appoints: Acts 20:28.
25) Reveals: Lk 2:26, 1 Cor 2:10.
26) Calls to Ministry: Acts 13:2.
27) Can be Grieved: Is 63:10, Eph 4:30.
28) Can be Insulted: Heb 10:29.
29) Can be Lied to: Acts 5:3-4.
30) Can be Blasphemed: Mt 12:31-32.
31) Strives: Gen 6:3.
32) Is Knowledgeable: Is 40:13, Acts 10:19, 1 Cor 2:10-13.
33) Can be Vexed: Is 63:10.
34) Judges: Jn 16:8.
35) Prophesies: Acts 21:11, 28:25, 1 Tim 4:1.
36) Has Fellowship: 2 Cor 13:14.
37) Gives Grace: Heb 10:29.
38) Agrees: 1 Jn 5:7-8.
39) Offers Life: 2 Cor 3:6, Rev 22:17.
40) Is the Creator: Job 33:4.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Hidden One
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 10:11 pm |
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I generally visualize a white dove when I need an image to hold on to in the chaos of my thoughts when praying specifically to the holy Spirit. Maybe that would work for you?
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1 John 4:7-12
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TotusTuus
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 31st, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 04:19 am |
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As we delve into the Church's meditation upon the Gospel mysteries, there is little doubt that aside from Our Lord himself, the best image or mirror of the Holy Spirit is the Blessed Virgin Mary. In fact, Our Lord is said to be the Word or Image of the Father, while Mary has been called the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. St. Maximillian Kolbe, in fact, has speculated that while Mary is the created Immaculate Conception, the Holy Spirit is the uncreated and eternal Immaculate Conception. If we see the Holy Spirit as the uncreated Immaculate Conception (the love between the Father and the Son) then it gives us an insight into why Mary at Lourdes would call herself “the Immaculate Conception”: she was calling herself by the name of her Spouse.
In 1974, Pope Paul VI wrote a document on devotion to Mary, which continues to be the norm for Marian devotion. The following articles dwelt on the topic, The Holy Spirit and Mary (MC 26, 27). The first (article 26) shows the rich symbolism developed by the Father to describe the relation between Mary and the Holy Spirit:
26. It seems to us useful to add to this mention of the Christological orientation of devotion to the Blessed Virgin a reminder of the fittingness of giving prominence in this devotion to one of the essential facts of the Faith: the Person and work of the Holy Spirit. Theological reflection and the liturgy have in fact noted how the sanctifying intervention of the Spirit in the Virgin of Nazareth was a culminating moment of the Spirit's action in the history of salvation. Thus, for example, some Fathers and writers of the Church attributed to the work of the Spirit the original holiness of Mary, who was as it were "fashioned by the Holy Spirit into a kind of new substance and new creature." [LG 56] Reflecting on the Gospel texts -- "The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will cover you with his shadow" (Lk. 1:35) and "Mary was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.... She has conceived what is in her by the Holy Spirit" (Mt. 1:18, 20) -- they saw in the Spirit's intervention an action that consecrated and made fruitful Mary's virginity and transformed her into the "Abode of the King" or "Bridal Chamber of the Word," the "Temple" , or "Tabernacle of the Lord," the "Ark of the Covenant" or "the Ark of Holiness," titles rich in biblical echoes. Examining more deeply still the mystery of the incarnation, they saw in the mysterious relationship between the Spirit and Mary an aspect redolent of marriage, poetically portrayed by, Prudentius. "The unwed Virgin espoused the Spirit," and they called her the "Temple of the Holy Spirit," an expression that emphasizes the sacred character of the Virgin now the permanent dwelling of the Spirit of God. Delving deeply into the doctrine of the Paraclete, they saw that from Him as from a spring there flowed forth the fullness of grace (cf. Lk. 1:28) and the abundance of gifts that adorned her. Thus they attributed to the Spirit the faith, hope and charity that animated the Virgin's heart, the strength that sustained her acceptance of the will of God, and the vigor that upheld her in her suffering at the foot of the cross. In Mary's prophetic canticle (cf. Lk. 1:4655) they saw a special working of the Spirit who had spoken through the mouths of the prophets." Considering, finally, the presence of the Mother of Jesus in the Upper Room, where the Spirit came down upon the infant Church (cf Acts 1:12-14; 2:14), they enriched with new developments the ancient theme of Mary and the Church. Above all they had recourse to the Virgin's intercession in order to obtain from the Spirit the capacity for engendering Christ in their own soul, as is attested to by Saint Ildephonsus in a prayer of supplication, amazing in its doctrine and prayerful power: "I beg you, holy Virgin, that I may have Jesus from the Holy Spirit, by whom you brought Jesus forth. May my soul receive Jesus through the Holy Spirit by whom your flesh conceived Jesus.... May I love Jesus in the Holy Spirit in whom you adore Jesus as Lord and gaze upon Him as your Son."Last edited on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 04:20 am by TotusTuus
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TTM!
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