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jennifer_S
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| First Name: | Jennifer | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Assembly of God, attending Catholic now (attending RCIA this fall) |
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Posted: Sun Aug 5th, 2007 11:01 pm |
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Hello,
I wanted to get others take on a statement of faith made by a homeschool group I am in. Is it compatible with the Catholic Church? Why or Why not?
Here is the statement:
V. Salvation:
We believe that salvation by grace is offered as a free gift to sinners. We are saved by repenting of our sinful ways and trusting by faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, believing on Him and making Him our Lord and Saviour. We are saved by trusting in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ alone, not by any personal work. The full and complete atonement for our sins was accomplished when Jesus Christ died on the cross. The Holy Spirit indwells all true believers, enabling and empowering us to live a godly life and creating fellowship between us. The saved and the unsaved will be resurrected, the believer to eternal glorious life in the prescence of God and the unbeliever to eternal torment and separation from God. John 3:16; Romans 5:8; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 2:18
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 01:04 am |
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Hello, Jennifer. Most of what the statement of faith says is biblical or something we hold in common with other Christians. However, there is one point that needs attention.
The assertion that “we are saved by trusting in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ alone, not by any personal work” is problematic. This does not take into account the fact that “personal work” towards salvation is required on practically every page of the bible as part of maintaining the Christian moral code. Notably missing in their list of scriptural passages are references to Matthew 5:16, 7:21–27 and chapter 25, Romans 2:6, Ephesians 2:10, James chapter 2, Revelation 2:5, and every biblical injunction to avoid evil and do good.
The problem with the rejection of “works” is that Protestants in general do not distinguish between justification and salvation. Indeed, many of them do not believe in justification, since they say that human sin is merely “covered over” and not done away with, or that once a person is “saved” (supposedly an instantaneous act) sin has no more hold on him, no matter what he does from then on. Basically this is an unacknowledged denial of the reality of sin, of the reality of the “new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15), of the reality of human holiness after justification, and of the obvious necessity of avoiding evil and doing good.
Catholic belief maintains that faith and works are both necessary for salvation and work together to that end. Faith by itself has no value (James 2:17–19), and works by themselves have no value (Galatians 2:16), but the works of faith have great value (Galatians 3:11; John 14:12, 15). The reconciliation of justification by faith and salvation through both faith and the works it inspires can be seen in Philippians 2:12–13. Basically, the Christian works efficaciously in faith by the power of God’s grace in him.
David
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jennifer_S
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| First Name: | Jennifer | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Assembly of God, attending Catholic now (attending RCIA this fall) |
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 01:24 am |
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David,
Thank you for your response. That was the section I was having a hard time with. I thought it was wrong but just couldn't grasp completely why. Your response helps a great deal, thank you again.
Jennifer
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BodRod
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 08:00 am |
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If you are homeschooling, why do you have a statement of faith at all? The idea of home schooling is to be independent, include family values and in some cases, include a hefty portion of self-rightousness. 
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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jennifer_S
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 10:12 am |
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Rod,
For some reason in our area it seems pretty common to have a statement of faith, if you are a Christian group. One group I looked at pretty much wanted you to be Baptist. They even dictated that the kids would call all adults Mr or Mrs and their last name. I decided really quick that the group wouldn't work for us and we were Protestant then.
In the group I am in now, they are considering either doing away with the statement of faith or making it really simple. I wanted to understand how to approach the statement of faith, now that I am on the journey into the Catholic church.
Jennifer
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BodRod
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 11:33 am |
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OK, I’ve got it. Home schooling does not necessarily mean it is being done at home. We never did home schooling as you describe. My wife had 3 of the kids reading, printing and knowing their colors before they went to school but that was as far as it went. Then we sent them to private schools, which was very expensive (as in working 1 full-time job and 2 part-time jobs) but it got them through school and I think we avoided some of the problems with public schools.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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JeffM
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 08:18 pm |
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David W. Emery wrote: Hello, Jennifer. Most of what the statement of faith says is biblical or something we hold in common with other Christians. However, there is one point that needs attention.
The assertion that “we are saved by trusting in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ alone, not by any personal work” is problematic. This does not take into account the fact that “personal work” towards salvation is required on practically every page of the bible as part of maintaining the Christian moral code. Notably missing in their list of scriptural passages are references to Matthew 5:16, 7:21–27 and chapter 25, Romans 2:6, Ephesians 2:10, James chapter 2, Revelation 2:5, and every biblical injunction to avoid evil and do good.
The problem with the rejection of “works” is that Protestants in general do not distinguish between justification and salvation. Indeed, many of them do not believe in justification, since they say that human sin is merely “covered over” and not done away with, or that once a person is “saved” (supposedly an instantaneous act) sin has no more hold on him, no matter what he does from then on. Basically this is an unacknowledged denial of the reality of sin, of the reality of the “new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15), of the reality of human holiness after justification, and of the obvious necessity of avoiding evil and doing good.
Catholic belief maintains that faith and works are both necessary for salvation and work together to that end. Faith by itself has no value (James 2:17–19), and works by themselves have no value (Galatians 2:16), but the works of faith have great value (Galatians 3:11; John 14:12, 15). The reconciliation of justification by faith and salvation through both faith and the works it inspires can be seen in Philippians 2:12–13. Basically, the Christian works efficaciously in faith by the power of God’s grace in him.
David
I wanted to thank you for this explanation. This is one of the things I have been struggling with. I am at work so I haven't had time to look up the scriptures you reflected, but this "down to earth" explanation makes sense to me. I will of course look up the scripture to make sure for myself 
When I told my mother that I was thinking about joining the Catholic church, this is one of the first things brought up. I had noway to defend the Catholic stance and I could not adequately explain it myself.
-Jeff
(sorry to intrude on the subject at hand)
Last edited on Tue Aug 7th, 2007 08:19 pm by JeffM
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Racaela Fultz
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 09:23 pm |
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This is interesting, because I remember years ago, when I was a little girl, a big row in our homeschool community. Our area has what is called a "steering committee," a group of parents that put on an annual conference and such. Now, they created bylaws and had a statement of faith. All the couples involved in writing the statement of faith were protestant, and it had a clause stating that we are saved by faith alone, totally separate from works. There was a Catholic couple that wanted on the steering committee, and they were about to get on when they read through the statement of faith and said they couldn't sign it. I remember my parents talking about it - what was wrong with those people, that they wouldn't sign a document so obviously Biblically correct? If they were trusting their works to get them to heaven, then they weren't saved, were they? Like I said, I heard these things as a small girl. I think they ended up changing the statemnet of faith slightly. I never thought then that I'd be where I am today, that's for sure...
It's interesting to note that though there are many Catholic homeschoolers, homeschooling is EXTREMELY dominated by protestants.
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"To be deep in history is to cease to be protestant" - Cardinal Newman
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 10:00 pm |
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JeffM wrote: (sorry to intrude on the subject at hand)
Everything here is open discussion. Feel free to jump in at any time.
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jennifer_S
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 11:20 pm |
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| Luckily we don't have to sign the statement of faith or I would be in a different situation. I am actually on the board of this group. There are a couple of people bringing up the statement of faith because they don't like that there are Mormons and Catholics in the group. Because of this the board is looking at the possibility of simplifying the statement of faith. I am just trying to figure out where to weigh in as a board member who is entering the Catholic Church
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BodRod
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 11:36 pm |
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| I guess they have never read of John 10:16
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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mrsbmoo
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Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2007 08:25 pm |
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Upon considering this for a few days, I think unless the group was anti-Catholic, it could be argued that the justification part could be interpreted as meaning that upon our own merit, we are unable to earn Heaven, which the Catholic Church would agree with, and thus you would be able to sign. I know I ended up in a completely secular homeschool support group as here in VA, evangelical homeschoolers won't even speak to people of other sorts. We swim at the same time at the YMCA and neither the moms or the kids will say a word to the non-evangelicals. The group I belong to has several other Catholic families as well as an Orthodox family, a muslim family, a Buddhist family, a couple Wiccans or some other nature religion, and many athiests and non-evangelical protestants. All of us share the fact that we have been treated with hostility by the Baptist/Evangelical community in our area. Unlike Rick's part of the South, VA has very few Catholics, compared to the nominally evangelical population.
As to Raceala's comment that about protestants dominating the homeschool scene, there are actually quite a lot of non-protestant homeschoolers in my area. We have a large homeschooling community both because government schools here are not very good and it is easy to homeschool in VA. There is a large (50 kids+) Catholic homeschool group 2 towns away from us(50 miles-too far for us). I have a tape of a speech by Fr Corapi on the Catholic church's support of homeschooling, so I have always found lots of support for homeschooling in the Church.
And to Criff, usually these groups do not actually teach the kids most of their subjects, they organize collective fields trip and socialization. So we do the main teaching at home but get together with other for activities that work better in groups like visits to museums or a class we don't have the skills to teach at home. My daughter took a Chemistry class at a science museum with just such a group, I could have never provided the level of lab equipment they had at the museum. They also provide some socialization for the Moms who in my rural area rarely see another adult besides their husband otherwise.
____________________
Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 13 months and 17
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BodRod
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Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2007 08:32 pm |
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| OK. Got it. Thanks for the info. Ahhhh yes, ...... chemistry!!! That was one of my favorite subjects. I especially enjoyed the unauthorized experiments I did at home, blowing things up. I only wound up in the ER once from all that. My mother was NOT amused !!!
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2007 02:10 am |
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BodRod wrote: OK. Got it. Thanks for the info. Ahhhh yes, ...... chemistry!!! That was one of my favorite subjects. I especially enjoyed the unauthorized experiments I did at home, blowing things up. I only wound up in the ER once from all that. My mother was NOT amused !!!
Somehow that doesn't surprise me.
BTW, my monitor finally gave up the ghost so I'm on my laptop screen, and I can finally see your avatar! I gave my wife a bear like that once except I think it was bigger at 6 feet tall. It was in 1976 and it was red, white, and blue!
And congratulations on your grandchild!
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Luke12:48
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Posted: Fri Aug 10th, 2007 06:39 pm |
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Hi Jennifer,
I am on vacation on a dial up so I will keep this short but feel free to pm for more info and I will reply when I get home.
If you do a search, there are some threads on this during the past year from when I went through it with my homeschool co-op. They may help you.
In the end, we added a line about choosing to stand on that which unites us instead of that which divides us and kept the rest to only the very general things we could agree on. I can send a copy of the finished product if you like.
Good luck.
Kate
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BodRod
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Posted: Fri Aug 10th, 2007 06:55 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: And congratulations on your grandchild!
Just to set the record straight, she is our first great-grand-baby. Since I am only 39, obviously, it must be some kind of a miracle.
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Juan
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Posted: Fri Aug 10th, 2007 08:33 pm |
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Hi Jennifer,
This thread might be of interest.
Catholic/Protestant statement of faith
Sincerely,
Juan
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