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val4u
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 |
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| First Name: | bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 03:53 am |
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I have had two sisters pass away in the last two years, one was Catholic and one was Baptist. Both firmly believed in their eternal destiny as to going to Heaven. I believe that they are both in Heaven, but how do I understand it in line with the Pope's statement that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church?
I'm not the smartest person and when I try to read the Catechism, I can't find what I'm looking for to answer this puzzle.
A second question would be, If we all have the same possibility of attaining Heaven, what is the advantage of being Catholic?
How do I explain these things to my non-Catholic friends?
Thanks, Bill
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 04:14 am |
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"There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church." if you rephrase it, you get "All salvation occurs inside the Catholic Church".
If we work backwards from this statement we can say that if your sisters are in heaven, then it's at least in part because they were Catholic. (Yes even the Baptist one).
So then we are faced with the question - Is it possible to be a Catholic and still believe you are a Baptist? My reading of Church documents on the subject lead me to say an emphatic YES!! it's POSSIBLE!
As to your second question on the advantage of being Catholic, I would remind you that while "all roads lead to Rome", it is possible to get to Rome without using the road, through the scrub over houses etc, the roads were put there to make it easier
Regards Dave
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Intercessor
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| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1323 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 04:54 am |
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val4u wrote: I have had two sisters pass away in the last two years, one was Catholic and one was Baptist. Both firmly believed in their eternal destiny as to going to Heaven. I believe that they are both in Heaven, but how do I understand it in line with the Pope's statement that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church?
Hi, Bill, You will get a beautifully crafted theological explanation from someone else tomorrow, I expect. For now (2:00 AM) I will just suggest that the Catholic Church has a lot to say about the great mercy of God. When I get frazzled by the unanswered questions about such matters, I remind myself to trust God's mercy and to trust His justice. Catholics believe that any grace that flows to anybody, even persons who never officially joined the Church, actually flows through Christ's Church. With such persons, the emphasis is on whether that individual obeyed the truth that had been revealed to her.
A second question would be, If we all have the same possibility of attaining Heaven, what is the advantage of being Catholic?
It's all about obeying the truth that has been revealed. Persons born into a devout Catholic home, properly catechized and nurtured in the Sacraments, have much obligation before God to obey all that they have been taught. A child born into an atheistic family is responsible for obeying what truth was revealed to her. I know which family I would choose.
I lived 52 years as a devout Baptist. Why did I become a Catholic?
1. The Holy Spirit required it.
2. 2000 years of unbroken history and tradition
3. I am a follower of Christ. Shouldn't I be in the one true Church my Lord established.
4. John 17 Christ longed to see unity in His followers.
5. As a Baptist I lacked the strength and grace found in the sacraments of confirmation, reconciliation, the Eucharist, and the anointing of the sick. I needed a much higher quality oil for my spiritual engine.
6. Celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass
7. Authority -- Christ gave us leaders with authority to shepherd
8. Christ's Real Presence in the Eucharist. John 6
9. Priests who represent Christ's presence with us
How do I explain these things to my non-Catholic friends?
Begin with lots of prayer. Much of the work of winning others to Catholicism is done through prayer. Involve the Saints, especially the Blessed Mother, in your prayers. Pray before the Eucharist. Offer prayers as you celebrate the Mass. Ask the Holy Spirit to transform you so that your relatives and friends can observe the changes. You can always give them a good book explaining the faith (if they are receptive) while you continue to pray and work toward your own personal holiness. Remember the importance of humility, gentleness, love, and mercy.
Edited to fix formatting.Last edited on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 10:03 am by
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"He who will persevere unto the end is not he who will never fall, but he who after every fall will humble himself and rise again, relying on the infinite strength of God." Divine Intimacy, p. 885 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1479 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 11:09 am |
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| Phoebe that was worded beautifully. I agree with you on every point and it was a great way to start my day by reading it. God bless
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Intercessor
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| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1323 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 11:26 am |
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David, thank you for cleaning up after me. I was rather bleary-eyed at that hour. 
Marsha, thanks for the kind comment.
____________________
"He who will persevere unto the end is not he who will never fall, but he who after every fall will humble himself and rise again, relying on the infinite strength of God." Divine Intimacy, p. 885 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5457 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 12:00 pm |
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val4u wrote: A second question would be, If we all have the same possibility of attaining Heaven, what is the advantage of being Catholic?
I think DrDave had a good answer to this.
We are all on the same journey. Some of us travel on well-marked highways where we get proper directions, with fewer distractions. Some travel on country roads which, while scenic, tend to be full of potholes, barrooms, stop signs, etc. Some get off the road and follow a hiking trail that is likely to be unmarked and have lots of forks, rocks, and brambles, and a few of us may even leave the path with a machete in hand and set off to blaze our own way.
We can all still get there. Even the guy who cuts his own way through the brush can make it, but it will be a much harder journey. He is having to "reinvent" each step of the path, instead of using the road that has been offered to him on a silver platter.
The question is which path do we want to take? Do we want to follow the Catholic Church, where the Magisterium has laid out a "superhighway" before us, or do we want to take the "country road" of Protestantism, where there are lots of potholes and distractions, fewer signs, and we basically have to determine for ourselves which is the good road and which is the bad one, or do we want to follow a non-Christian faith that has no markings but can still get us to the destination, or do we want to practice no faith at all and set off on our own?
I can be Catholic, Protestant, or Buddhist and fall into the last category if I'm not following and practicing my faith, so it's not just "membership" that matters, but belief and how it translates into action. And I can fall into the first category if I follow the path laid out in scripture and by the Church even if I am not Catholic, but do it because I think it's right.
There will be a lot of people in heaven who never went to church, and a lot of people in hell who were in church every Sunday. It's not what we do in church that matters, it's what we do when we're not in church. We are not saved on the Sabbath, we're saved the rest of the week. Not everyone who says Lord, Lord will be saved, even if they say it in a Catholic church.
Without the Church there is no salvation, so those who actively and knowingly reject the Catholic faith cannot be saved. But salvation flows from the Church to the whole world, encompassing all who have not rejected her, just as Jesus embraces all who have not rejected him.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Daffodil
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| Joined: | Sat Apr 21st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 89 |
| First Name: | Daffodil | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | not attending church, New Age, Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 05:31 pm |
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But salvation flows from the Church to the whole world, encompassing all who have not rejected her, just as Jesus embraces all who have not rejected him. Thank you, Rick, for such a beautiful description of something that I couldn't put words to.
____________________
My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior....
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val4u
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 18 |
| First Name: | bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2007 04:39 am |
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Thank you all for your replies and I finally got the point; that all grace and salvation comes thru the Catholic church which is the church instituted by Christ and the apostles. I just needed the right words.
Each night that I work the night shift, I pray for the people here in the hospital and for my family some of which have no religious connections. I was surprised by Rick's statement about the non-churched and their salvation possibilites. I will still pray for them that they won't have to " beat the bushes and re-invent the road" as was said.
God Bless you all
Bill
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