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miles Dei
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| First Name: | miles | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic, currently experiencing "faith moratorium" |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 06:53 pm |
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In John 6:63, Jesus says:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (KJV)
What confuses me about this passage is the underlined clause. Most of John 6 consists of Jesus explaining the necessity of the consumption of His flesh in a very literal sense... if I recall, the Greek verb for "chew" was even used in the original New Testament script (please correct me if I am in error). Why else would so many of his disciples find this teaching scandalous or difficult and go away?
All the same, I've seen this passage used by some Protestants to "single-handedly debunk" the Catholic/Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran teaching regarding the Real Presence in the Eucharist. I thought it sort of naive to think that ~2000 years of tradition was created in direct contradiction to the "true meaning" of a passage of Scripture, but hey.
I almost hesitate to Google the passage for fear of what horrible anti-Catholic sites I might pull up. What is Jesus really saying in John 6:63?
Thanks to all and pax vobiscum,
miles
____________________
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to All leads to One,
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to our Vision.
-Serj Tankian
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japhy
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| Joined: | Thu Apr 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Princeton, New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 229 |
| First Name: | Jeff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic (Roman Rite) |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 07:39 pm |
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miles Dei wrote: In John 6:63, Jesus says: "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (KJV)
What confuses me about this passage is the underlined clause. Most of John 6 consists of Jesus explaining the necessity of the consumption of His flesh in a very literal sense... if I recall, the Greek verb for "chew" was even used in the original New Testament script (please correct me if I am in error). Why else would so many of his disciples find this teaching scandalous or difficult and go away?
One meaning of John 6:63 is to distinguish why the crowd (and many of his disciples) left while the Apostles did not. It is linked to Peter's statement that Jesus is the Messiah (cf. Matthew 16:16-17): it is not by our flesh and blood that we profit, but from the Spirit of God alone. In other words, if you tried to understand what Jesus had just told them ("eat my flesh and drink my blood or you will not have life within you") from the human perspective, it would make no sense and you'd be forced to explain it away with metaphor or symbolism. If, on the other hand, you accept the Spirit of God, whose ways are above your ways and whose thoughts are above your thoughts, as high as the heavens are above the earth (cf. Isaiah 55:8-9), you will be led into all truth (cf. John 16:13). Contrasting "spirit" and "flesh", Jesus is contrasting the supernatural with the natural.
Furthermore, we must get away from the concept of eating the body of Christ as feasting on a cadaver (flesh devoid of the Spirit). Rather, we are consuming the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ -- his Resurrected Glorified Body. It is full of the Spirit, or else it would be of no avail. And the words Jesus spoke were a revelation of the Spirit, not of man (cf. Matthew 16:16-17).
As usual, catholic.com has a great resource on this very question: http://www.catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp
Last edited on Thu May 3rd, 2007 07:40 pm by japhy
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[Mary said,] "Do whatever he tells you." - John 2:5
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Juan
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 08:01 pm |
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Most people fail to notice that throughout John 6, Jesus speaks of "MY" flesh. But in verse 63, He suddenly speaks of "the" flesh. There is a difference.
Jesus Flesh is the Bread of Life.
The flesh is our enemy as in "the devil, the flesh and the world."
John 6
56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6
57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.
Romans 7
25 The grace of God, by Jesus Christ our Lord. Therefore, I myself, with the mind serve the law of God; but with the flesh, the law of sin.
Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh; God sending his own Son, in the likeness of sinful flesh and of sin, hath condemned sin in the flesh;
Sincerely,
Juan
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Candlemass
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| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 489 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for life! |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 08:22 pm |
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| Just to add to a great post, I have also been taught that when the Word speaks of "the flesh", it is not usually refering to our corporeal bodies, but the natural human mindset that is at enmity w/God.
____________________
"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri May 4th, 2007 02:54 am |
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One other point. The NAB footnote to John 6:63 reads,
"Spirit . . . flesh: probably not a reference to the eucharistic body of Jesus but to the supernatural and the natural, as in John 3:6. Spirit and life: all Jesus said about the bread of life is the revelation of the Spirit."
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