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hpj0828
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 05:10 pm |
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In Protestant churches, a weekly Bible study in someone's home, or in a small group environment within the church building is a standard fixture. Despite this, I find the level of Biblical literacy within Protestant churches I've been in over the last decade to be shockingly low.
In the Catholic Church, how is the Bible taught? Does a teacher need some kind of certifcation in order to teach? How can the level of Biblical literacy be raised in the Catholic Church?
Are there any initiatives in this area? Are they successful?
Henry
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HPJ
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Intercessor
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 06:11 pm |
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hpj0828 wrote: In Protestant churches, a weekly Bible study in someone's home, or in a small group environment within the church building is a standard fixture. Despite this, I find the level of Biblical literacy within Protestant churches I've been in over the last decade to be shockingly low.
My experience was that persons who had been teaching adult SS classes for a good while were in decent shape--not theologians, not scholars, not seminary graduates--but in pretty good shape. Usually each Baptist adult SS class would also have 2-3 non-teaching members who had grown up in church, had paid attention, taken notes, studied outside church, and had accumulated information and understanding through the decades. Generally, persons over sixty knew the most about Scripture and doctrine. Those persons grew up during a time that mothers were in the home, families were in church 3-4 times per week, children were in VBS in June, SS on Sunday mornings, and Training Union/CTS on Sunday evenings, mission/Scripture study sessions on Wednesday evenings. Children were put through sword drills to learn the books of the Bible and to quickly locate specific passages. Sadly, times have changed.
Now pastors and SS leaders must be vigilant or young adults teaching children's SS classes will bring coloring books of Disney characters or storybook characters rather than Bible characters for little pre-school children to color.
In the Catholic Church, how is the Bible taught? Does a teacher need some kind of certifcation in order to teach? How can the level of Biblical literacy be raised in the Catholic Church?
You can learn a great deal by checking out websites for Catholic parishes around the country. I have seen several that offer regular Bible classes in the parish hall. There are also parishes having home Bible studies. I lead one in my own home.
I was not required to get certification. However, I purchased the Navarre Bible and Scott Hahn's Ignatius Catholic Study Bible so that I would have two sources of footnotes based on the CCC and the Church Fathers. I showed my materials to the parish priest and discussed with him what I had in mind (beginning with a couple of Paul's letters). A couple of area priests visit the meetings when they are available. I keep a copy of the CCC handy. Our prayers are more formal, Catholic prayers, but we do take personal requests (intentions) and pray for each other during the week.
Are there any initiatives in this area? Are they successful?
I have shared with the persons attending my group that the Holy Father has announced a special emphasis on St. Paul's importance in the Church for 2008. There were a couple of devout middle-aged cradle Catholics in my home Bible study who had not realized that St. Paul was an apostle.
Edited to fix formatting.Last edited on Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 08:48 pm by
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"He who will persevere unto the end is not he who will never fall, but he who after every fall will humble himself and rise again, relying on the infinite strength of God." Divine Intimacy, p. 885 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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japhy
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 06:26 pm |
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The Synod of Bishops is meeting this year on "The Word of God in the Life and Mission of the Church". They are looking at ways to expand and deepen interest in and studies of the Bible in parishes around the world.
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[Mary said,] "Do whatever he tells you." - John 2:5
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 10:17 pm |
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hpj0828 wrote: Does a teacher need some kind of certifcation in order to teach?
There is a Catechist Certification program. In our diocese, Basic Certification takes 80 class hours, and Master Certification takes another 108, with 28 hours in a specialization. You can read about the program in our diocese here.
Each diocese has comparable programs, some better than others. They are not mandatory, but those who have completed Catechist Certification programs are available to assist those who have not.
There is an ongoing program through the USCCB to upgrade qualifications of catechists, but it's hard to enforce a requirement for certification when the catechists are volunteers who often work full time and have family obligations as well.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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sewnsew
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 10:51 pm |
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At the dinner table tonight I was asking the kids about their theology classes at school- Our son is taking morality and our daughter is studying the new testament- we talked about John- and that led to the veiwpoints of each new Testament- Ie Jesus the Divine in John, the Healer in Luke, the teacher and the man etc. my husband blinked and said "in my 18 years of Southern Baptist Bible study no one ever told me that..." that led to how the Bible books were chosen and who added and who subtracted things- My Husband who has always felt that his Baptist upbringing and his parent knew far more about the Bible then the Catholics. He is learning all kinds of history. He just assumed that because we can't recite whole chapters of the Bible and identify each verse by memory that we knew nothing of the Bible.
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hpj0828
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 11:01 am |
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| You mention that your husband is "learning all kinds of history." I am curious. What kind of history is learning? Is it history about life during the times of the Bible? Or about how the Bible was transmitted through the ages?
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hpj0828
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 11:19 am |
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"I was not required to get certification. However, I purchased the Navarre Bible and Scott Hahn's Ignatius Catholic Study Bible so that I would have two sources of footnotes based on the CCC and the Church Fathers."
In the past whenever I've done ministry in a particular denomination, I've tried to use the translation of the Bible there preferred. In the Protestant churches I've been in, there is usually heated debate about the "correct" version of the Bible in English. Some think the KJV is the only "inspired" version. Others swear by the NIV. Many Messianic Jewish friends enjoy "The Complete Jewish Bible" which is more of a paraphrase than a translation, particularly in the NT. For me,it is not much of an issue, because I can read the Scripture in the original languages.
What is the most accepted version of the Bible for use in the English-speaking RC church? Which is the most accurate translation? Is the study Bible you recommend the "best of breed" for good footnotes from a RC perspective?
Is there an annotated RC study Bible for those who can read Hebrew and Greek?
In general, how much freedom is there in the RC church for interpretation of Scripture? Is every verse of Scripture bound to a particular intepretation? Or is there the kind of discussion found in the Talmud where various rabbis share new insights and angles into the meaning of a verse by midrash?
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sewnsew
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 11:25 am |
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| He is learning about how the bible was passed down, formed etc. He also is learning about early church history and about the origins of protestantism- which really very few Catholics or Protestants think about today.
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Annie
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 12:03 pm |
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hpj0828 wrote: What is the most accepted version of the Bible for use in the English-speaking RC church? Which is the most accurate translation? Is the study Bible you recommend the "best of breed" for good footnotes from a RC perspective? The New American Bible is the only one approved for use in liturgy in the US but most people I know use variants of the Revised Standard. There have been discussions of the weaknesses of the NAB translation in First Things journal.
Is there an annotated RC study Bible for those who can read Hebrew and Greek?
You might inquire at a seminary about that. As a lay person I doubt it. There would be very few RC lay people who can read Hebrew and Greek and seminarians wouldn't need such a Bible with notes, which they would be getting in class from the prof.
In general, how much freedom is there in the RC church for interpretation of Scripture? Is every verse of Scripture bound to a particular intepretation? Or is there the kind of discussion found in the Talmud where various rabbis share new insights and angles into the meaning of a verse by midrash?
There is quite a bit of freedom of interpretation but it is required to be done according to the Magisterium. No, every verse is not bound to a particular interpretation unless it is obvious to mean something physical and concrete. There is quite a bit of discussion, especially among theologians. Lay people tend I think to concentrate on practical everyday applications of scripture.
Last edited on Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 12:04 pm by Annie
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Annie
Ora et labora
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hpj0828
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 12:57 pm |
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I moved toward the RC church primarily because I saw in her, the true continuance of ancient Jewish traditions.
Is your husband aware that the original written text of the OT in Hebrew consisted only of consonants, without vowels, no punctuation of any kind, nor even spaces between words?
It is only around the 1st C BC that spaces between words were added to the text and end of verse markers. Only in about 1000AD did the Masoretic scribes add vowel pointings (dots under the Hebrew consonants) and cantillation marks (indicating puntuation within the verse.)
So, the entire Hebrew text of the OT was passed down by a tradition of oral cantillation (chanting), without which tradition, the text would be a meaningless string of consonants.
Jewish tradition never recognized sola Scriptura, but always assumed an Oral law to accompany the written law.
There is no meaning to the written text of the OT without the oral tradition which has accompanied it for millenia. Even today, in the synagogue, the OT is "sung" by cantillation, rather than "read". The singing preserves the vowels that go with the consonants, as well as the pauses (like commas and periods) in the reading of the text.
In this sense, Sola Scriptura does not exist!
Henry
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HPJ
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Intercessor
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 01:00 pm |
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hpj0828:
"I was not required to get certification. However, I purchased the Navarre Bible and Scott Hahn's Ignatius Catholic Study Bible so that I would have two sources of footnotes based on the CCC and the Church Fathers."
In the past whenever I've done ministry in a particular denomination, I've tried to use the translation of the Bible there preferred. In the Protestant churches I've been in, there is usually heated debate about the "correct" version of the Bible in English. Some think the KJV is the only "inspired" version. Others swear by the NIV. Many Messianic Jewish friends enjoy "The Complete Jewish Bible" which is more of a paraphrase than a translation, particularly in the NT. For me,it is not much of an issue, because I can read the Scripture in the original languages.
What is the most accepted version of the Bible for use in the English-speaking RC church? Which is the most accurate translation? Is the study Bible you recommend the "best of breed" for good footnotes from a RC perspective?
Is there an annotated RC study Bible for those who can read Hebrew and Greek?
In general, how much freedom is there in the RC church for interpretation of Scripture? Is every verse of Scripture bound to a particular intepretation? Or is there the kind of discussion found in the Talmud where various rabbis share new insights and angles into the meaning of a verse by midrash?
Henry, I am not a scholar. David and Rick can be more helpful along those lines. What I can do is share with you some websites and a few comments regarding my experience as a former Baptist adult Sunday School teacher who now offers interested Catholics an opportunity for informal home Bible study. First the websites:
http://www.usccb.org/nab/faq.shtml
Is the New American Bible the only translation of Scriptures we can read from at Mass?
Since May 19, 2002, the revised Lectionary, based on the New American Bible is the only English-language Lectionary that may be used at Mass in the dioceses of the United States, except for the current Lectionary for Masses with Children which remains in use.
The 1970 edition of the New American Bible is used in the Scripture readings and canticles of the Liturgy of the Hours (except the Benedictus, Magnificat, and Nunc dimittis.)
http://www.salvationhistory.com/library/scripture/wordOfGod/translangs.cfm
Dr. Scott Hahn's St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology
For ten dollars or less you can order a portion of the Catholic Ignatius Study Bible for Pauline letters and see what you think of it:
Click Here
Although the NAB is respected for accuracy in translation, I personally am often distracted by its lack of readability. I prefer the RSV-CE. (I have the 2nd ed.) As a new Catholic proposing to teach a Bible study, I had to be very careful to win the trust of area priests and parishioners. Everyone knows of Scott Hahn. Choosing his materials solved what could have been several problems for a person in my position. To avoid being limited to one source, I also chose the Navarre since it is highly regarded by a nearby community of priests. With those two choices, I was much further along in winning the confidence of both the priests and the laity. I sought and received the approval and support of my parish priest and of my confessor before beginning the Bible study in my home.
One thing I would point out is that some of the earlier comments here refer to certification for teaching the catechism. Most parishes are very busy offering instruction in the catechism. I wanted to focus on a Bible study, which is somewhat different, of course.
Note: Edited to shorten link
Last edited on Sun Feb 24th, 2008 10:55 pm by
____________________
"He who will persevere unto the end is not he who will never fall, but he who after every fall will humble himself and rise again, relying on the infinite strength of God." Divine Intimacy, p. 885 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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faithfl1
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 01:49 pm |
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quote from kimdyuma
"At the dinner table tonight I was asking the kids about their theology classes at school- Our son is taking morality and our daughter is studying the new testament- we talked about John- and that led to the veiwpoints of each new Testament- Ie Jesus the Divine in John, the Healer in Luke, the teacher and the man etc. my husband blinked and said "in my 18 years of Southern Baptist Bible study no one ever told me that..." that led to how the Bible books were chosen and who added and who subtracted things- My Husband who has always felt that his Baptist upbringing and his parent knew far more about the Bible then the Catholics. He is learning all kinds of history. He just assumed that because we can't recite whole chapters of the Bible and identify each verse by memory that we knew nothing of the Bible."
Praise God!!!
Last edited on Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 01:54 pm by faithfl1
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Sharon S.
...I love you, Lord, my strength Psalm 18:2
I have the strength for everything through Him who empowers me. Phil 4:13
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sewnsew
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 02:20 pm |
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Yes indeed- My husband walked away from his church at 18 and never went back though he has a lot of ingrained beliefs. He says that he is agnostic but I think that is a veneer to cover up a lot of confusion mixed with some vestiges of parental rebellion. Before we married we had a serious talk about faith and church- we agreed that the kids would be brought up as Anglicans and he has supported me on that wholeheartedly. ( then I went and became Catholic leaving the heathen to continue taking our kids to church LOL):?
His dad used to hammer us for hours on the Anglican ( and Catholic) church and how idolatrous they both were. he must be stomping his feet in heaven at the latest development. He never would have accepted the Catholic education
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Candlemass
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Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 06:01 pm |
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| Since I'm still a fledgling Catholic, how exactly is a Catholic to interprit scripture, exegisis/hemanutics/in light of Sacred Tradition, and or all of the above?
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"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
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Intercessor
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Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 07:58 pm |
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Mark, the mods can come along later and flesh this out for you. I'll get it started.
Catholics must be careful not to build a doctrine on one verse, one book of the Bible, or even the entire Bible if it runs counter to something in Sacred Tradition. Not everything Jesus did or taught is in the Bible. Much was passed down orally from one generation of apostles to the next.
one example--One must be careful about studying only the book of Galatians. It would be wise to pair it with the book of James.
Catholics must consider the audience to whom a letter in the Bible was written and what the customs and circumstances of that time and place were. We must ask what is the message the author intended for that particular audience.
Catholics must remember that passages of Scripture contain literal truths and spiritual truths. Neither should be neglected.
We must test our interpretation of Scripture against what is contained in The Catechism of the Catholic Church. The best scholars and theologians have done the work for us and the Holy Spirit has preserved the teachings on faith and morals through the popes.
I find it helpful to keep the Navarre Bible handy and also Scott Hahn's Catholic Ignatius Study Bible. Each has good footnotes indicating Catholic interpretation of the verses one is reading. Also the new website Bibliaclerus.com has many resources for the Catholic student of Scripture. I especially like seeing what Chrysostom and St. Augustine wrote about passages in the Bible. While teaching Galatians, I sometimes found that when neither the Navarre Bible nor the CISB provided footnotes on a certain verse, St. John Chrysostom's commentary was a treasure.Last edited on Sun Feb 24th, 2008 08:10 pm by Intercessor
____________________
"He who will persevere unto the end is not he who will never fall, but he who after every fall will humble himself and rise again, relying on the infinite strength of God." Divine Intimacy, p. 885 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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hpj0828
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Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 08:57 pm |
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The supposed "contradiction" between Galatians and James is really a result of a translation issue in Galatians, which is now the subject of a lively debate among modern Biblical scholars.
Galatians is held to teach that we are saved by faith alone (without regard to good works) because of passages like the following:
"(yet) who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." Gal. 2:16 NAB
While, James is held to teach that saving faith cannot exist without good works:
"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead." James 2:14-17 NAB
The Galatians phrase: "justified by faith in Christ" can equally well be translated as: "justified by the faithfulness of Christ"--by Christ's obedience unto death on the cross. This translation means that we are saved by what Jesus did on the cross for us. The Greek, like the Hebrew of Habakkuk 2:4 from which it is taken, is fundamentally ambiguous. The two possible translations are based upon whether one understands the phrase grammatically as subjective or objective genitive.
(See also my post on the Hebrew of Habakkuk 2:4 on the Faith vs. Works thread on the chn forum).
The Galatians phrase "the works of the law" has since been discovered in the "halakhic letter" 4QMMT among the Dead Sea Scrolls. Prior to the publication of this scroll in the late 1990s, no other use of this phrase was known in contemporary Jewish literature. In this letter, which has many similarities to Paul's Epistle to the Galatians, the writer combines knowledge of God's laws (by implication believing God) and pious obedience, that is faith plus works, as both required to be "reckoned as righteous" before God:
"Remember David, who was a man of the pious ones, and he, too was freed from many afflictions and was forgiven. And also we have written to you some of the works of the Torah which we think are good for you and for your people, for we saw that you have intellect and knowledge of the Law. Reflect on all these matters and seek from him that he may support your counsel and keep far from you the evil schemings and the counsel of Belial [Satan], so that at the end of time, you may rejoice in finding that some of our words are true. And it shall be reckoned to you as justice when you do what is upright and good before him, for your good and that of Israel."
Halakhic Letter, 4QMMT C 25-32 The Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition, Vol. 2, p. 803, tr. Florentino Garcia Marquez and Eibert J.C. Tigchelaar, 1997.
The Dead Sea Scrolls Halakhic Letter 4QMMT has led to a fundamental reappraisal of Galatians by many modern scholars. With this understanding, Galatians is no longer seen as a letter pitting Grace vs. Law and Faith vs. Works, but rather a letter in which the Torah ("Law") includes grace. Faith and works together form the response to Christ's obedience, through which our salvation is won.
Henry
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HPJ
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Lyell
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Posted: Wed Mar 12th, 2008 05:06 am |
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I see one of the other posters has put in this web site: http://www.salvationhistory.com/ for The ST Paul Center for Biblical Theology. Here is part of their mission statement: "Our goal is to be a teacher of teachers. We want to raise up a new generation of priests who are fluent in the Bible and lay people who are biblically literate. For us, this means more than helping people to know their way around the Bible. It means equipping them to enter into the heart of the living Word of God and to be transformed and renewed by this encounter. "
I love it.
You need to get on their mailing list and maybe go to one of their training sessions to teach the "Journey Through Scripture" bible study
Maybe take one of the classes thru your diocese (I think Rick suggested that? I took a class called "Preparation for Pastoral Ministry" or something like that. I had to go into it promising myself I would attempt to learn everything, but I did not promise myself that I would believe everything. Some of it was excellent, some of it was blah blah blah.
Check out this book: Understanding The Scriptures at http://www.theologicalforum.org/marketplace/product_desc.asp?Sku=1-890177-47-4 for a really good Catholic overview of the scriptures.
I became Catholic in 1990, and it took until about 1997 for me to get into a place where I could be part of the leadership team in a Catholic bible study. I went to the Bible study group at the parish in the next town (where I was not known well) and volunteered to help. There was a staff person (a real gift, as it turned out: I was fortunate) who had me practice my first presentation on her first. That was her way of checking me out, I suppose. Another poster pointed out how hard it was for him to gain credibility: I also had/have that problem. My own parish knew my BibleChurch background, and I dont think they really trusted me until I got some experience next door. They still dont really trust me, likely because I am too orthodox Catholic for them. (there are lots of cafeteria Catholics around me). I am still the only one on our Bible Study team who regularly quotes from the Cathechism. Sigh.
So, How do Catholics teach scripture? First, learn. All I can say, is read. Read the Cathechism sections on the bible. Read the Vatican II documents on Devine Revelation and the one one on Liturgy. Learn about the senses of Scripture. Listen to CDs from or attend things like the Annual West Coast Biblical Studies Conference (St Joseph Communications), the National Catholic Family Life Conference, check out the Coming Home Network bookstore. You already know that swimming the Tiber takes energy and fortitude. Dont stop now: there is so much more. Keep learning. You never know when it will be that God will open the door for you to be on a leadership team for a Catholic Bible Study, the Best Bible Study in town! So get prepared!
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Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ - St Jerome
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