 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 07:55 pm |
|
When visiting with my only "real life" Catholic friend yesterday, she let me use one to look something up. I liked it! Should I buy one?
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
Didi
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 168 |
| First Name: | Didi | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic; almost left; Now an On-Fire Catholic! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 11:10 pm |
|
Hi Kim!
I think it depends on how you want to use the bible. Here's a great article from Catholic Answers on different types of bibles and translations:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Bible_Translations_Guide.asp
The one I use the most and like the best is the Ignatius Bible, RSV (Revised Standard Version), Catholic Edition. Many of the scripture studies I have done in the past have used this edition. Sometimes it is helpful to have a few different ones to compare the wording, but I would stay away from ones that veer too far away from the original language (as stated in the article).
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1795 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2008 03:29 am |
|
Two things I don’t much like about the New Jerusalem Bible, Kim: 1. It’s a rather “free” version, not adhering very closely to the original text, so you can’t use it for close study. 2. It uses some “gender neutral” wording (not hard line like the New Revised Standard Version or the most recent revision of the NIV; just “some”), which does justice neither to the historical background of scripture nor to its correct interpretation. These points matter to me; they may not to you.
The NJB is very readable, and if that’s all you need in a bible, you could do far worse. However, before buying, you may also want to take a look at the original Jerusalem Bible (1970 version without the “gender neutral” flavoring). I have both, and I generally prefer the older renderings, even though they are somewhat more British-sounding than the other. It’s a shame that you can no longer get the original JB with the extensive notes that really were worth the price of the work. As a result, my old two-volume edition is now a collector’s item.
In line with most people on this forum, I use mostly the RSV-CE or the RSV-CE2. They are both fairly literal and reasonably elegant, suitable both for proclaiming and studying. I actually started with the RSV as a Methodist teenager back in the 50s. The original Protestant version was not as good as the later (60s) revision, which put a number of texts back in traditional order and style. The first Catholic Edition (also 60s; currently published by both Ignatius and Scepter) took that a step farther, traditionalizing the New Testament a bit more, and of course added back the deuterocanonical books. The Second Catholic Edition (Ignatius) made minor verbal revisions throughout to remove archaic language and to bring the text more in line with traditional Catholic biblical thought and interpretation.
David
|
|
|
Pani Rose
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Irondale, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 390 |
| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2008 09:48 am |
|
Look on ebay and see if you can't find a copy of 'The Jerusalem Bible', instead of the 'New Jerusalem Bible'. It was done back in the early 60s and does not have the inclusive language and some other nonsence. It is what we use most of the time. But, still after 28 years, if I am quoting a Bible verse from memory - it comes out of my mouth 'King James - old english'. Basically, I pick up and read whatever is the closest to me, but I prefer The Jerusalem Bible. It is translated from the Greek , and is somewhat poetic in nature - as all are - but it reminds me of what I grew up on in many ways, yet it contains the fullness of the Bible in Catholic understanding.
|
|
|
Tina in Ashburn
Member
| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ashburn, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 272 |
| First Name: | Tina | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Roman Catholic, Ukranian Catholic, presently practicing as Roman Latin ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2008 11:49 am |
|
David, thanks for the heads-up on the older NJB. My Mom, a Catholic author and researcher, who read Greek, Latin, and Hebrew, was very happy when the NJB came out back in the 60s. Now I know to treasure that version she has. She has a million books, many old and irreplaceable, and I wouldn't know how to begin judging their usefulness.
These threads on Bible versions are very interesting to me. Thank you Kim and all!
____________________
Tina
Arlington Diocese
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 02:54 am |
|
Didi, thanks for the link and telling me what you mainly use. David, thanks for the advice. Sounds like you're both in agreement on which one you both like. I'll check out the Ignatius RSV-CE 2nd edition.
Does that version have good footnotes and cross-referencing?
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
Pani Rose
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Irondale, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 390 |
| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 03:19 am |
|
Tina in Ashburn wrote: David, thanks for the heads-up on the older NJB. My Mom, a Catholic author and researcher, who read Greek, Latin, and Hebrew, was very happy when the NJB came out back in the 60s. Now I know to treasure that version she has. She has a million books, many old and irreplaceable, and I wouldn't know how to begin judging their usefulness.
These threads on Bible versions are very interesting to me. Thank you Kim and all!
The one in the 60s is called the Jerusalem Bible. There is a change in the title for the newer one. The one that came out in recent years is called the New Jerusalem Bible, which has the inclusive language and stuff, that is the one you want to stay away from. The JB of the 60s is fine.
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1795 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 03:45 am |
|
The RSV-CE2 has top notch notes, Kim. Ignatius put them in three streams: cross references, textual notes and occasional brief explanations. They are very useful, but don’t get in the way.
If you need “real” notes, as in a full-scale explicatory commentary and doctrinal reference according to the Fathers and Doctors of the Church and the writings of the saints, I suggest the Navarre Bible (Four Courts Press, Scepter), which is based on the RSV-CE. It is expensive (about $400 for all 10 hardbound volumes), but if you want notes in the Catholic tradition, these are among the best. (Inexpensive softbound volumes of the New Testament are also available. There is also an abbreviated version of the Gospels and Acts in a single volume; this reduces the commentary to footnotes, more in the style of the original Jerusalem Bible, which many find quite sufficient.)
The (still incomplete, Matthew–Philemon) Ignatius Study Bible may also appeal to you. It is based on the RSV-CE2 and is more similar to what one would expect in a Protestant commentary, with attention to the original languages and explanation of the various patristic and scholarly viewpoints. There are study group style questions at the end of each volume. Scott Hahn is one of the authors. It is published only in pamplet form so far, cheap for a single book but becoming expensive as one buys more volumes.
David
|
|
|
Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 159 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 09:25 am |
|
I like the Ignatius Study Bible very much, although I've spent over $100 on it so far, and do not even have the entire New Testament. Having become attached to my NIV Study Bible (Protestant), I had hoped to find an equivalent Catholic Bible. So far the Ignatius Study Bible is the closest I've found, and yet is not convenient being bound in slim, slippery paperbacks, with lots of repeated introductory material in each booklet.
In January, when I began Marcus Grodi's plan of reading the Bible and the Catechism in a year, I tried to use the NAB version given to us at RCIA. I stopped in Genesis. I find the language of it lacking in beauty, and many of the notes, especially in the New Testament, have an air of disbelief.
Did someone say the new lectionary will take readings from a different version of the Bible, instead of the NAB? I hope so.
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1795 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 11:52 am |
|
Did someone say the new lectionary will take readings from a different version of the Bible, instead of the NAB? I hope so.
In the United States, what is currently being revised in the Mass is what is called the Ordinary, which consists of the unchangeable parts. Following this, the Proper (the various prayers, etc., for different days) will be revised.
After these Vatican-mandated steps, if we’re lucky, the Lectionary will be reworked. Almost undoubtedly this will be yet another revision of the NAB text, because the NAB is what the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has specified as its official lectionary source. Based on the timeline we have seen in the first phase, I would venture that publication of a revised lectionary is optimistically about a decade away.
David
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 12:06 pm |
|
Thanks David. The RSV-CE2 is probably the way I would go. I would love to have access to the Ignatius Study Bible someday. I'm sure it'll be a humdinger! Thank God for bringing men like Scott Hahn into the Church! His excitement about all that he's learned has certainly been a blessing.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1268 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 01:27 pm |
|
Free wrote:
In January, when I began Marcus Grodi's plan of reading the Bible and the Catechism in a year, I tried to use the NAB version given to us at RCIA. I stopped in Genesis. I find the language of it lacking in beauty, and many of the notes, especially in the New Testament, have an air of disbelief.
Did someone say the new lectionary will take readings from a different version of the Bible, instead of the NAB? I hope so.
When I was going through Kim's predicament I first bought a New Jerusalem Bible not knowing that the text was frowned upon as inclusive. After searching a little more I finally decided on the NAB because that is what our parish provides in the pews and I thought it would come in handy to follow along with the same text! You all know what I'm going to say next, right? The only time anyone ever picks up the Bible to read at mass is before mass when they've finished prayers and have time to spend, or when they come out of confession and have reading to do for penance. I was thinking like a protestant.
Now I am slowly accumulating the Navarre books because the commentary is insightful and convenient.
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 365 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 03:54 pm |
|
 Interesting topic guys. I'm not that familiar with the JB and haven't been extremely impressed with the American Bible. I like the Ignatius Study Bible. What I would like to see is a good RSV with side notes that cross reference each verse to where it appears in the Catechism. (kinda like how the Catechism has scriptural notes) A Bible that cross references all applicable verses to the Catechism would be invaluable to teaching. A Catholic lexicon that matches scripture with the catechism would be fabulous.
Regarding older versions that contain archaic language. Some of that language deserves updating since we don't use those words anymore in everyday language. However, I love maintaining the "thees" and "thou(s)" When you think about it, they help determine if the author is speaking to one person or more. Plus, it makes for a nice poetic or prosaic kind of reading that is easier to memorize. IMHO
Rich
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5080 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 05:33 pm |
|
rbo4u2 wrote: I love maintaining the "thees" and "thou(s)" When you think about it, they help determine if the author is speaking to one person or more.
We need a Southern bible with "you" and "y'all"! 
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 365 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 05:57 pm |
|
CajunRick wrote:
rbo4u2 wrote: I love maintaining the "thees" and "thou(s)" When you think about it, they help determine if the author is speaking to one person or more.
We need a Southern bible with "you" and "y'all"!
It's been done. The Cotton Patch Version by Clarence Jordan. It was intended to bring the old gospel story written "long long ago" into the cotton fields where he worked with the poor cotton workers. It's worth a read only for the entertainment of seeing how he tried to present the gospel to the poor illiterate folks in the fields. Not a good book for accuracy tho.
Rich
|
|
|
Pani Rose
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Irondale, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 390 |
| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 12:03 am |
|
rbo4u2 wrote: CajunRick wrote:
rbo4u2 wrote: I love maintaining the "thees" and "thou(s)" When you think about it, they help determine if the author is speaking to one person or more.
We need a Southern bible with "you" and "y'all"!
It's been done. The Cotton Patch Version by Clarence Jordan. It was intended to bring the old gospel story written "long long ago" into the cotton fields where he worked with the poor cotton workers. It's worth a read only for the entertainment of seeing how he tried to present the gospel to the poor illiterate folks in the fields. Not a good book for accuracy tho.
Rich I picked up an old KJV - old lots of archaic english - and started reading it to the grandbaby.  He just looked at me. I know he is only two but I doubt he has ever heard those words. I gave up
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 798 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 27th, 2008 05:09 pm |
|
I read that Cotton Patch version, and Jordan's liberal use of the "n word" and portrayal of poor whites would get him crucified or hauled off to a Georgia nuthut ASAP, no make it ASAY for yesterday, and that wouldn't be soon enough for the politically discomforted.
Notwithstanding that Jordan used those words ever so carefully, specifically, and in a way that in no way reflected any prejudice on his part, his words today would also bring down a new version of Sherman of 1864, only it'd be Al Sharpton's March of 08. (How can I say "liberal use" and "ever so carefully, specifically" in the same posting? All it takes is one use of the word, or even the slightest variation of it, and you'll see all hell break loose. Remember what happened to an African American politician in Washington, DC who used the word "niggardly" and he wasn't even referring to a racial matter?)
I have no used for prejudice, but I also have no use for nitpicking politicking when it comes to needless PC-related bowlderizing even a homespun bible of all things to meet the standards of our contemporary cultural fascists.
Good thing for Clarence: His words weren't initially taken out of context and dragged into the realm of media-contrived confessions that would've made Torquemade green with envy. Why, his "bible" was de rigeur reading for HHI volunteers. Maybe, not nowadays, I s'pose.
I just hope asking for "y'all" won't get Kermie in trouble. I'll be lookin' for you on the afternoon talk show circuits, Kermit. At shows' end, ya'll be the one having the fun.  Make sure you're only on Dr. Phil's show. At least he won't hold inserting "y'all" into Scripture against you.
If anybody goes on the secular boob tube, I'd be careful about mentioning the word Jerusalem when describing the kind of Bible you read. You might offend Jews, Muslims and especially (Protestants like good old Gov. "Ma" Ferguson of Texas who said if the King James Bible (English) was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for ... ) Yes, she used such phraseology, long before bilingual battles were even cool, back in the twenties. And by God and the Texas Legislature, she won the day!
Last edited on Sun Apr 27th, 2008 05:27 pm by Steven Barrett
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1795 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 27th, 2008 11:25 pm |
|
rbo4u2 wrote:A Bible that cross references all applicable verses to the Catechism would be invaluable to teaching. A Catholic lexicon that matches scripture with the catechism would be fabulous.
After a fashion, it’s already a reality, Rich. First, in the back of the Catechism is a full listing of all references — scripture, creeds, ecumenical councils, particular councils and synods, papal documents, other Church documents, canon law, liturgy and other ecclesiastical writers (saints, the Fathers and Doctors of the Church). Of course you wanted the references in the bible, as befits a Protestant style of thinking, but having them in the Catechism makes more sense to Catholics.
In addition, there is a giant (nearly 1,000 pages) volume of full texts of citations from the Catechism that goes by the name of The Companion to the Catechism of the Catholic Church: A Compendium of Texts Referred to in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (whew!) published by Ignatius Press. This sourcebook may also be of interest to anyone who really wants to know what is behind the assertions put forth in the Catechism.
David
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 365 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 02:32 am |
|
David W. Emery wrote:
[quote="rbo4u2" Of course you wanted the references in the bible, as befits a Protestant style of thinking, but having them in the Catechism makes more sense to Catholics.
David
Yeah, David you got me there. Nothing like the center column references in my "Protestant" Bible. Ha Ha.
I have the "Green" Catechism with all the references in back, and I even have that book with the insufferably long name you mentioned. It's a great book which I use my forklift to pull off my shelf. It's a great book, as weighty in resources as it is heavy. I guess I want it all in one source...but then...I'd need a crane to lift the book off my shelves. And God help me if I try to read it in my lap.
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1414 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical "Jesus Freak" (Arminian) / "Lewisian Schaefferite" / Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 07:26 pm |
|
| I believe the Jerusalem Bible was greatly influenced by a French version, if I recall correctly. That gives it a lot of its distinctiveness, I would imagine.
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 159 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 10:41 pm |
|
My Jerusalem Bible came in the mail today. I went on line to Abe Books and found a 1966 hardcover used but clean volume. They emphasized that it is NOT the poplular edition. It cost only a little over $30, including shipping.
It's a handful! It's about four inches thick. I've read a little in both the New and Old Testaments and find the word-choice pleasing, and the notes look great!
The introduction says the English translation is a fresh translation from original language documents, and is not a translation from the French. There is also a French translation from the original language documents.
Anyway, thanks for the information in this thread. I think I'll like this Bible very much, although I won't be carrying it far due to its size!
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1414 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical "Jesus Freak" (Arminian) / "Lewisian Schaefferite" / Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 2nd, 2008 07:42 pm |
|
The introduction says the English translation is a fresh translation from original language documents, and is not a translation from the French.
Yep; that's why I used the language of "greatly influenced by a French version."
Hope you enjoy it and find it edifying!
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 798 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun May 4th, 2008 05:57 am |
|
Dave, I used to work in the book section of a former Media Play outlet, and of all the most difficult tasks I ever had, it was trying to track down a French language Bible -- and this area still has a good size number of Quebecois descendants.
I should've known better: Media Play is a Minn. company, perhaps Lake Wobegon Lutherans. It was bound to be a mission of woe. 
S.
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
Current time is 10:56 pm | |
|
|
|
|
|
