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youngone88
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| Joined: | Wed Apr 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 21 |
| First Name: | Stephen | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Evangelical-soon to be Catholic? (still seeking) |
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Posted: Sat Jun 28th, 2008 11:35 pm |
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Hey everyone. I'm a little confused about the partim partim, material sufficiency thing. Recently I've heard protestant apologists point out that if Catholics will use the "canon argument" (that the canon of scripture is not found in scripture) to disprove sola scriptura, then it would also disprove material sufficency and force the Catholic into a partim-partim view of scripture and tradition.
I have 2 main questions about this...
1. Does the Catholic Church have an official position on this? Some believe one or the other is the official teaching, and it would affect the strength of this argument.
2. Does the above line of reasoning prevent the canon of scripture argument from being useful against sola scriptura? How would one counter this assertion?
Thank you guys for your time in advance, you all have really been helping me alot.
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David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2429 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 02:24 am |
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Stephen, I found this reply on another forum to be one of the few sane comments on either theory. Basically, it says that the Protestant accusations are not even relevant because Catholics are not committed to either theory.
David
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 2237 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Mon Jun 30th, 2008 08:56 pm |
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Fascinating questions.
The Church (to my knowledge), and as David stated, is not formally committed to either approach. What it has stated is that both the Bible and Tradition (as well as the Church) contain divinely revealed truth, and are authoritative.
I believe, however, that the more prevalent position is that of material sufficiency, which holds that all Catholic beliefs are contained in the Bible: explicitly, implicitly, or deducible from fairly clear texts. I hold to this myself, and it is part of the backdrop of my strong "biblical evidence" theme for my apologetics. Most major apologists that I am aware of, seem to hold to it as well. But I don't believe it is a required Catholic belief.
It doesn't affect the canon argument against sola Scriptura at all. The reason it doesn't is because that is a specific difficulty for Protestantism, since it has rejected the infallible authority of the Church and Tradition. Yet Scripture itself (the Canon) was authoritatively declared, in its parameters, by the early Catholic Church. Thus, this presents an internal difficulty for their position (and I've never seen a decent reply to this objection).
Sola Scriptura is wrong on many levels. Scripture simply doesn't teach it. Yet Protestantism has made it its rule of faith, and basis for authority. It is thoroughly incoherent and inconsistent.
The question of material sufficiency, on the other hand, is simply an opinion as to the relationship between Scripture and Tradition. It would place relatively more "proof" of Tradition in Scripture itself. But in any event, all Catholics are to hold to the general proposition that such truths are contained in both Scripture and Tradition. The Church has said that both flow from the same divine wellspring. A Catholic can hold this belief or not, but it wouldn't affect the superiority of the Catholic "three-legged stool" rule of faith over against the logical bankruptcy of sola Scriptura.
For more on these issues, see many papers on my web pages:
The Bible, Church, Tradition, & Canon
The Bible: Sola Scriptura
Last edited on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 08:57 pm by Dave Armstrong
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http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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