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AD
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 21st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 32 |
| First Name: | AL | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Baptist Pentacostal Non Denominational |
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Posted: Thu Jun 21st, 2007 09:53 pm |
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I was invited to this site by the ETWN TV program that was aimed at
Non Denominational Believers in Yeshua, the Messiah. They encouraged
people to explore their belief and look to the Catholic Church for answers.
I believe they called it the journey home and with that invitation I thought I
might do just that and ask some questions I have in understanding why
the catholic church lives its faith out before the world the way it does.
One thing I have a hard time understanding is the position that if one
believes God has given him the gift of being a Bishop (IE- Every one knows
Jesus called 12 and some were married and Paul states the right of a Bishop
to have a wife) Why would the church feel compelled to not abide in the way
the church operated from the start? I am not talking about the fact that it
might be easier to serve the LORD if your not yoked to a wife as Paul
eluded to but just the right of the believer to live out his calling, being
married and a Bishop. GOD is the one who gives the gifts to us, not men.
If some one could give me some food for thought, It would be welcomed
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Jun 21st, 2007 10:53 pm |
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AD wrote: I was invited to this site by the ETWN TV program that was aimed at Non Denominational Believers in Yeshua, the Messiah. They encouraged
people to explore their belief and look to the Catholic Church for answers.
I believe they called it the journey home
Welcome to our forum. The Coming Home Network is a ministry effort of Marcus Grodi, the host of "The Journey Home" program on EWTN. Our forum is sponsored by CHN, but it is a volunteer ministry not directly connected with the TV program. We welcome anyone who sincerely seeks information about the Catholic faith, and we're happy to have you here with us. Please feel free to ask any questions and participate in any of our discussions. We'll do our best to answer you honestly and truthfully.
Meanwhile, I'll let others respond to your specific questions, but I wanted to welcome you to CHN. We're truly glad to have you here with us.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Juan
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | unregister | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | unregister |
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 12:38 am |
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God bless you and welcome AD. I hope you stay for a while and learn much.
I was invited to this site by the ETWN TV program that was aimed at
Non Denominational Believers in Yeshua, the Messiah. They encouraged
people to explore their belief and look to the Catholic Church for answers.
I believe they called it the journey home and with that invitation I thought I
might do just that and ask some questions I have in understanding why
the catholic church lives its faith out before the world the way it does.
What I like to do is to compare your faith to the Catholic faith. Sort of doing a contrast and comparison. It is easier to see the Wisdom of God in Catholic Teaching when we do that.
ne thing I have a hard time understanding is the position that if one
believes God has given him the gift of being a Bishop (IE- Every one knows
Jesus called 12 and some were married and Paul states the right of a Bishop
to have a wife) Why would the church feel compelled to not abide in the way
the church operated from the start?
You answered the question partially below. The Church believes the Word of God in Scripture says which says that it is better if a man attends to God rather than to a wife:
1 Corinthians 7:32
But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
1 Corinthians 7:33
But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.
However the Church takes seriously Christ's mandate that all authority has been given to Her by Him:
Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
I am not talking about the fact that it
might be easier to serve the LORD if your not yoked to a wife as Paul
eluded to but just the right of the believer to live out his calling, being
married and a Bishop.
What does the believer want most? To be married or to be Christ's Bishop?
Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
GOD is the one who gives the gifts to us, not men.
If some one could give me some food for thought, It would be welcomed
I hope that helps.
Remember:
Matthew 19:27
Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus answered:
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Sincerely,
Juan
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BettyBoopToo
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
| Posts: | 538 |
| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 02:36 am |
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Good Evening AD
We're happy to have you here with us. I hope your enjoying EWTN programing, I have really enjoyed it for the last 5 yrs.
I tried to look some items up to try and help you, I included a link of a very nice & helpful site if your interested.
Celibacy is Church practice not Dogma
Jer. 16:1-4 - Jeremiah is told by God not to take a wife or have children.
Isaiah 56:3-7 - the eunuchs who keep God's covenant will have a special place in the kingdom of heaven.
Rev. 14:4 - unlike our sinful world of the flesh, in heaven, those consecrated to virginity are honored.
Matt. 19:11-12 - Jesus says celibacy is a gift from God and whoever can bear it should bear it. Jesus praises and recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church. Because celibacy is a gift from God, those who criticize the Church's practice of celibacy are criticizing God and this wonderful gift He bestows on His chosen ones.
Matt. 19:29 - Jesus says that whoever gives up children for the sake of His name will receive a hundred times more and will inherit eternal life. Jesus praises celibacy when it is done for the sake of His kingdom.
1 Cor 7:1 – Paul teaches that it is well for a man not to touch a woman. This is the choice that the Catholic priests of the Roman rite freely make.
1 Cor. 7:7 - Paul also acknowledges that celibacy is a gift from God and wishes that all were celibate like he is.
1 Tim. 3:2 - Paul instructs that bishops must be married only once. Many use this verse to prove that the Church's celibacy law is in error. But they are mistaken because this verse refers to bishops that were widowers. Paul is instructing that these widowers could not remarry. The verse also refers to those bishops who were currently married. They also could not remarry (in the Catholic Church's Eastern rite, priests are allowed to marry; celibacy is only a disciplinary rule for the clergy of the Roman rite). Therefore, this text has nothing to do with imposing a marriage requirement on becoming a bishop.
1 Tim. 4:3 - in this verse, Paul refers to deceitful doctrines that forbid marriage. Many non-Catholics also use this verse to impugn the Church's practice of celibacy. This is entirely misguided because the Catholic Church exalts marriage to a sacrament. In fact, marriage is elevated to a sacrament, but consecrated virginity is not. The Church declares marriage sacred, covenantal and lifegiving. Paul is referring to doctrines that forbid marriage and other goods when done outside the teaching of Christ and for a lessor good. Celibacy is an act of giving up one good (marriage and children) for a greater good (complete spiritual union with God).
Scripture Catholic has been used for some verses with permission of the owner. http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_priesthood.html#priesthood-IV
CCC = Catechism of the Catholic Church
CCC 1580 In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while biships are chosensolely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deasons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priestsexercise a fruitful ministry within their communities. Moreover, priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priests have freely chosen it for the sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer Marry.
CCC 1599 In the Latin church the sacrament of Holy Orders for the presbyterate is normally conferred only on candidates who are ready to embrace celibacy freely and who publicly manifest their intention of staying celibate for the love of God's kingdom and the service of men.
God Bless
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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DrSharkey
Member
| Joined: | Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Jackson, Tennessee USA |
| Posts: | 36 |
| First Name: | John | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Agnostic, Southern Baptist (sorta), church of Christ, looking Romeward |
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Posted: Mon Aug 27th, 2007 08:13 pm |
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BettyBoopToo wrote:
1 Tim. 3:2 - Paul instructs that bishops must be married only once. Many use this verse to prove that the Church's celibacy law is in error. But they are mistaken because this verse refers to bishops that were widowers. Paul is instructing that these widowers could not remarry. The verse also refers to those bishops who were currently married. They also could not remarry (in the Catholic Church's Eastern rite, priests are allowed to marry;
From where do you draw this conclusion (the widower part)?
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http://sharkeysworld.blogspot.com/
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BettyBoopToo
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
| Posts: | 538 |
| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Aug 28th, 2007 01:16 am |
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DrSharkey wrote: BettyBoopToo wrote:
1 Tim. 3:2 - Paul instructs that bishops must be married only once. Many use this verse to prove that the Church's celibacy law is in error. But they are mistaken because this verse refers to bishops that were widowers. Paul is instructing that these widowers could not remarry. The verse also refers to those bishops who were currently married. They also could not remarry (in the Catholic Church's Eastern rite, priests are allowed to marry;
From where do you draw this conclusion (the widower part)?
John
In the introduction to the 1st letter of Timothy; It states that the three letter's are addressed not to congregation's but to those who Shepherd Congregations. (Latin Pastores) The letter's were first named "Pastoral Epistles" in the eighteenth century because they all are concerned with the work of a pastor in caring for the community or comunities under his charge.
Paul is giving the qualification of various ministers. If a Bishop & Deacon can only be married once, then the ones that no longer have a wife would be presumed as widowers. So therefore this verse would not be a text that would contradict or could be used as one to disprove the churches descipline of priestly celibacy
I have to say, I had never noticed the use of Widowers here, Scripture Catholic has been used for some verses with permission of the owner. http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_priesthood.html#priesthood-IV
But after going back and studing the Bible commentary also, it states that the letter takes up , in its several aspects, the subject of widow/widowers. That's the best I have for an answer to your question.
Here are a couple of good articles for priestly celibacy on Catholic Answers web-site.
http://www.catholic.com/library/celibacy_and_the_priesthood.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0104sbs.asp
Thank you! It was good you asked the question as it forced me to get out my catechism/Bibles and some other documents.
God Bless & Thank you again
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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abbycat
Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 17th, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 86 |
| First Name: | Abby | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | non-specified |
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 08:26 pm |
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Hi AD ....
I'm going to chime in here, and I will admit to you that this is from a place of my own ignorance re. the Catholic Church ... this is just from my own history of non denominational, evangelical church membership. Please understand I speak for no one .. just my observations.
To me, this is one of those many things that is not worth getting flustered about. It's rather like the "discussion" (or argument in some quarters) of "election vs. free will" or "pre-trib., post-trib., mid-trib." It doesn't really matter when it comes to the whole scheme of things (to me). What does matter, and is ultimately important, is what is my relationship with Christ? Is my heart always seeking after him? Am I living as He would ask me to live as I understand, and am taught it?
There are many things I do not understand at this point, admittedly. I am willing to read, listen, pray, and seek Him on all of these areas. I am sure there will be areas which, like you, I understand so little as to possibly become a stumbling block to me, at which point I will have to decide just how "big" it is, always keeping in mind "how crucial is this to my own actual relationship with Christ? Will this be something that will truly get in my way of being part of this Body?"
God bless,
abby
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<*)))><
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