 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Prodigal Daughter
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 196 |
| First Name: | Deborah/PD | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptized Catholic, received First Communion, left during Confirmation year. ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 15th, 2007 10:13 am |
|
I recently read something from a priest that said "Vatican II tried to incorporate the communitarian part of worship in the Mass." He said this in refence to his own parish because of the lack of "enthusiasm" expressed during the Mass.
I wonder what he meant by that statement. After 15 years as a charismatic/evangelical I've had about as much enthusiasm as I can take. I admit that it is difficult for me to watch people who are indifferent during Mass, but I do love the quiet. The best Masses I've been to are where the priest and the people show a visible reverence and awe through slow, methodical and purposeful gestures and responses as a form of honor and respect for the mystery that is taking place.
I wondered when I read his comment what kinds of "communitarian" aspects he thought Vatican II was encouraging. Has anyone read anything on this?
____________________
"Man should tremble, the world should vibrate, all Heaven should be deeply moved when the Son of God appears on the altar in the hands of the priest."
St. Francis of Assisi
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1268 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 15th, 2007 10:50 am |
|
| Maybe it's his lack of enthusiasm? I'm with you, when I'm at mass my enthusiasm is internal, but it's there. To create an atmosphere of community is to make the focus on us. When I get to mass today should I put on a mask of what I think looks like enthusiasm or be my seriously reverent self? Here's what I like to see as enthusiasm: there is a priest at our church who, when he places the Host on my tongue, gives the biggest smile at me, and it makes me happy, enthusiastic about being at the Lord's table. It is a banquet, right? But I don't have to hug everyone there or hold hands or wave my arms around to show how I love God!
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5079 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 15th, 2007 11:51 am |
|
Prodigal Daughter wrote: I recently read something from a priest that said "Vatican II tried to incorporate the communitarian part of worship in the Mass." He said this in refence to his own parish because of the lack of "enthusiasm" expressed during the Mass.
I wonder what he meant by that statement. After 15 years as a charismatic/evangelical I've had about as much enthusiasm as I can take. I admit that it is difficult for me to watch people who are indifferent during Mass, but I do love the quiet. The best Masses I've been to are where the priest and the people show a visible reverence and awe through slow, methodical and purposeful gestures and responses as a form of honor and respect for the mystery that is taking place.
I wondered when I read his comment what kinds of "communitarian" aspects he thought Vatican II was encouraging. Has anyone read anything on this?
This is just a guess. I didn't read the whole article and really have no idea where the author is coming from, except from my personal experience.
Prior to Vatican II, I believe the general attitude is that we worshipped as individuals who happened to be in the same room. Few actively participated in the worship, or even paid attention to what was going on except when the Sanctus bells rang.
Today there is much more sense that we worship as a community of believers. We have come together as church, a people of God in God's service. We are the ultimate community at communion time, when we join with our Savior in the most intimate way possible.
I don't think "enthusiasm" in a charismatic/evangelical sense is what he had in mind. I think more of the quiet enthusiasm of Servant of God John Paul II or Blessed Teresa of Calcutta. Picture John Paul II at World Youth Day, or kissing the ground as he landed in a country for the first time. Think of Blessed Teresa embracing an AIDS victim. That's the enthusiasm we should have for our God, for our community worship, and especially for the Eucharist: the awe of absolute adoration at the elevation of the Sacrament, and the complete and total feeling of submission as we receive the Precious Body and Precious Blood of our Savior as the ultimate Body of Christ at communion time.
Many (most?) Catholics go through the motions with no real appreciation. They are there because they have to be, and have no enthusiasm for the community of believers of which they are a part.
Could that be what the author intended?
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
mg57
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tolland County, Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 169 |
| First Name: | mg57 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Infant Baptised Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 15th, 2007 12:42 pm |
|
PD -
Simply put, before the second Vatican Council, responses by the congregation during the Mass were a bit more limited in comparison, ( please see - Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, especially sections 21-46). Others here on the board can further expand on that if they'd like.
The Second Vatican Council also directed the laity to an expanded awareness of their historically understood mission, or, apostolate, within the timeframe of their lives, - in the 'public Square' as Fr. Neuhaus has said.
We see that especially in the Decree On The Apostolate of the Laity, and the Pastoral Constitution on the Church In the Modern World. These two are wonderful documents, and take a relatively short amount of time to read through.
One can see a great number of dynamically orthodox ( as opposed to heterodox) contemporary lay movements and apostolates propogated in large part through the work of the Church leadership in the documents of Vatican II. Two examples which come to mind are Communion & Liberation and the annual national Steubenville East Youth Conferences, - which is actually a secondary movement coming out of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, and related also to the World Youth Days which was a brainchild of one of the fathers of Vatican II, - Pope John Paul II.
So for me, experiencing both periods before and after the Council, it is the same Faith of the ages, - from Gaudium et Spes -
INTRODUCTORY STATEMENT
THE SITUATION OF MEN IN THE MODERN WORLD
4. "To carry out such a task, the Church has always had the duty of scrutinizing the signs of the times and of interpreting them in the light of the Gospel. Thus, in language intelligible to each generation, she can respond to the perennial questions which men ask about this present life and the life to come, and about the relationship of the one to the other. We must therefore recognize and understand the world in which we live, its explanations, its longings, and its often dramatic characteristics."
Pope Benedict XVI, a father of the Council, in 2005 also said this -
"As Christians we must constantly be reminded that the call of justice is not something which can be reduced to the categories of this world. And this is the beauty of the pastoral constitution "Gaudium et Spes," evident in the very structure of the Council's text; only when we Christians grasp our vocation, as having been created in the image of God and believing that "the form of this world is passing away ... [and] that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth, in which justice dwells" ("Gaudium et Spes," No. 39), can we address the urgent social problems of our time from a truly Christian perspective.
"Far from diminishing our concern to develop this earth, the expectation of a new earth should spur us on, for it is here that the body of a new human family grows, prefiguring in some way the world that is to come" (ibid., No. 39).
And so, to be workers of this true justice, we must be workers who are being made just by contact with him who is justice itself: Jesus of Nazareth. The place of this encounter is the Church, nowhere more powerfully present than in her sacraments and liturgy. The celebration of the holy triduum, which we will enter into next week, is the triumph of God's justice over human judgments."
( Emphasis mine).
Hope this helps to start  .
God bless.
|
|
|
Prodigal Daughter
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 196 |
| First Name: | Deborah/PD | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptized Catholic, received First Communion, left during Confirmation year. ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 15th, 2007 09:21 pm |
|
Rick: I can't seem to copy and paste anymore (has anyone else complained about that?) but I wanted to tell you that I appreciated your "word picture" of John Paul II and Mother Teresa. It helps me to think of our parishes being filled with that kind of enthusiasm versus the often "put on" excitement of my evangelical experience.
mg7: Thank you for your response as well. I'll have to add those Vatican II documents to my reading list.
Last edited on Sun Jul 15th, 2007 09:22 pm by Prodigal Daughter
____________________
"Man should tremble, the world should vibrate, all Heaven should be deeply moved when the Son of God appears on the altar in the hands of the priest."
St. Francis of Assisi
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5079 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 15th, 2007 09:50 pm |
|
Prodigal Daughter wrote: Rick: I can't seem to copy and paste anymore (has anyone else complained about that?)
No. I haven't had a problem and no one else has mentioned it.
I can't seem to copy and paste anymore (has anyone else complained about that?)
I even tried it two different ways in this message and they both worked.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Current time is 06:03 am | |
|
|
|
|
|
