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Angie_Rivas1
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Downey, USA |
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| First Name: | Angie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2007 02:14 am |
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What is the Church stand on this issue after Vatican II? Did anything change from the Middle Ages' perspective on indulgence? My mom, who is a very extremist Hispanic Catholic, states that we earn indulgence for the after life when we pray specific novenas/prayers? To me, prayer is only to build a relationship with the Lord and to stay close to Him. I would appreciate any feedback that you'd provide.
Blessings,
Angie
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"Be not afraid" JPII
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Annie
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| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2007 08:29 am |
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| There is still a long list of indulgenced prayers. There is also a plenary indulgence associated with Eucharistic Adoration. The St. Joseph's People's Prayer book has some of these prayers.
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Annie
Ora et labora
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2007 08:58 am |
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Angie, this book will help you understand indulgences. You will find that you mother is right.
The doctrine regarding indulgences was formally defined at the Council of Trent after Martin Luther and other early Protestants rejected them. The book explains this in detail and offers many prayers and other actions to which the Church has attached either a partial or a plenary (full) indulgence.
The doctrine of indulgences is also explained in the Catechism beginning at §1471.
David
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Angie_Rivas1
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Downey, USA |
| Posts: | 110 |
| First Name: | Angie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2007 10:32 am |
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WOW David I am amazed at how much my sins had blinded me spiritually. I only wonder what other beautiful graces I've missed because of my pride and stubborness. There is no doubt on my heart that my mom's prayers brought me back home. I'm convinced that the Lord heard her prayers. I thank the Lord for her life! I've been so wrong about many aspects of my faith and the Church doctrines. I know the Lord has forgiven my ignorance and I pray He will continue to light my feet.
Blessings,
Angie
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"Be not afraid" JPII
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2007 11:38 am |
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| Angie, the Church's teaching on Indulgences was most recently revised by Pope Paul VI in his Apostolic Constitution on Indulgences, Indulgentiarum Doctrina, which you'll find here.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2007 02:52 pm |
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| one thing i never understood is what if anything physically is an indulgence. How does one receive or know they have received one. Does it need to be told to us by a priest. Is it up to us to know we have done by meeting the conditions of it? I used to think it was something physical like on a piece of paper, because of the fact that the church was "selling" indulgences or whatever. How can they sell something you can not see? I guess people say prayers for you nowadays when you donate them money. But anyway, what is an indulgence materially speaking, or what is the concrete proof one has performed one?
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David W. Emery
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| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2007 08:24 pm |
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brian wrote:
one thing i never understood is what if anything physically is an indulgence. How does one receive or know they have received one. Does it need to be told to us by a priest. Is it up to us to know we have done by meeting the conditions of it? I used to think it was something physical like on a piece of paper, because of the fact that the church was "selling" indulgences or whatever. How can they sell something you can not see? I guess people say prayers for you nowadays when you donate them money. But anyway, what is an indulgence materially speaking, or what is the concrete proof one has performed one?
Brian, indulgences are attached to “prayers and works of piety, charity and penance.” (I’m quoting this from the Manual of Indulgences.) If you are in the state of grace and perform one of these works as specified, you receive the indulgence. Most of these are designated as partial indulgences, which remit before God a portion of the “temporal punishment due for sins already forgiven as far as their guilt is concerned.” The requirements for a designated plenary indulgence (which remits all of the penance) are very strict, and not everyone will qualify; those who perform the work without qualifying in every respect, so long as they are in the state of grace, receive a partial indulgence instead.
So the main question for a person who seeks an indulgence is: “Am I in the state of grace?” This question is a little like that other question, “Am I saved? Will I make it to heaven?” in that there is no 100 percent sure answer. One can be morally certain, but not absolutely certain, that he is or is not in the state of grace.
The second question is, “Did I fulfill all the requirements to gain the indulgence?” Again, one can be morally, but not absolutely, certain of this.
Does this answer your question?
David
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brian
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu Mar 15th, 2007 02:06 am |
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Thank you...but no, it did not 
My only question is if you actually get to see the indulgence physically or know 100% that you qualified or if a priest tells you you got one. Is it like a certificate you can look at...I used to think so, but from what I gather it seems that is not the case, and you just have to do your best and trust God to tally the results...I wasa wondering if there was anything concrete like a mass card or something, or if there was any system for one to see exacxtly how many indulgences he or she has received.
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
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| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Mar 15th, 2007 03:21 am |
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brian wrote: My only question is if you actually get to see the indulgence physically or know 100% that you qualified or if a priest tells you you got one. Is it like a certificate you can look at...I used to think so, but from what I gather it seems that is not the case, and you just have to do your best and trust God to tally the results...I wasa wondering if there was anything concrete like a mass card or something, or if there was any system for one to see exacxtly how many indulgences he or she has received.
I think the best way to answer this question it to compare indulgences to baptism. The church teaches that baptism leaves an indelible mark on the soul. In the mind of the church this is just as true whether one is baptised after years of study at the Easter vigil at the vatican, or whether your kids baptise the neighbor's kids while in the backyard "playing church".(It's been done, and yes it's valid )
So too with indulgences they apply if you've met the requirements, end of story.
With baptism, it is customary to issue a baptismal certificate, and under church law it is sometimes necessary to provide this certificate (or a copy), but the existance or non existance of the certificate has no bearing whatsoever on whether one has been baptised or not.
With indulgences, at certain times in the churches history it was customary to issue a kind of certificate affirming that one had completed the visible forms of an indulgence (the precursors of the "I climbed Ayers Rock" bumper sticker) but these certificates again had no bearing on whether the indulgence was granted, because part of the requirement for recieving an indulgence relates to your inner disposition, so whether you truly recieved it is strictly between you and God!
So the simple answer to your question is No (and yes )
Regards Dave
Last edited on Thu Mar 15th, 2007 08:07 pm by DrDave
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