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3John4
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| Joined: | Tue Feb 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 76 |
| First Name: | Dede | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic, Protestant, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 03:03 pm |
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Someone close to me, who is protestant, has a strong resentment of the Catholic Church, in part because he feels the Church considers protestants less Christian--inferior to Catholics. He finds the term "separated brethren" insulting, is reeling from Pope Benedict's reaffirmation (if I understand it correctly) of the Catholic Church as the one True Church, and reminds me frequently of the declarations in the Council of Trent that state that for anyone who does not believe what the Church teaches, "Let him be anathema". Here is the link of the website where he has examined the declarations:
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/trent.htm
He believes, as the author of the website states, that the Church is condemning those who go against Catholic beliefs to hell, and that Catholics believe Protestants will not be in heaven.
Can anyone help me refute his beliefs that the Catholic Church holds nothing but contempt for protestants? I get very emotional when our discussions head down this path, and have a hard time arguing clearly after viewing websites like the one mentioned above.
Thanks,
Dede
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faithfl1
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 64 |
| First Name: | Sharon | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | protestant, non-denominational (born-again), Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 04:18 pm |
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http://www.cpats.org/holyquotes/documents/_all_catholic_verses.htm
Maybe you can get some words of wisdom from this website. God Bless!
____________________
Sharon S.
...I love you, Lord, my strength Psalm 18:2
I have the strength for everything through Him who empowers me. Phil 4:13
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wmschrader
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| Joined: | Fri Dec 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Fort Myers, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 82 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 06:04 pm |
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This link might be useful. Sometimes we Catholics are told we are WAY TOO liberal when it comes to salvation!
http://www.ancient-future.net/prots.html
____________________
Bill
Glory be to God for all things
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 720 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 07:50 pm |
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Does your friend also object to the idea that Christ told St. Peter to start the Christian era and the Church? What does he think about how it all got started?
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1714 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 11:31 pm |
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3John4 wrote:
He finds the term "separated brethren" insulting, is reeling from Pope Benedict's reaffirmation… of the Catholic Church as the one True Church, and reminds me frequently of the declarations in the Council of Trent that state that for anyone who does not believe what the Church teaches, "Let him be anathema".
“Anathema” is simply a convenient way of saying, “This person does not share our beliefs; therefore he has broken communion with us.” Protestants may use different words, but they effectively say exactly the same thing all the time. Don’t they use the word “Catholic” with the same opprobrium as their view of “anathema”? Isn’t it really much kinder to speak, as we do now, of “separated brethren”?
Let this person also consider that the practices of many Protestant and Evangelical congregations are not really so different when it comes to disfellowshiping. Their methods may not be laid out in neat columns of anathemas, but if someone dares (for example) to announce in an Evangelical congregation that he believes in infant baptism, he will suddenly find he is not welcome there. The Catholic viewpoint is just somebody disagreeing with this person’s own beliefs, so if he amicably accepts the same disagreement from his Protestant brethren, who in reality are separated from his congregation just as much as the Catholics, what’s his beef?
David
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mrbill
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| Joined: | Wed Dec 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Deltona, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic- Baptist- Returned Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 11:50 pm |
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I have a hard time arguing clearly after viewing websites like this too. The author, who writes this website for " Fundamental Baptists and other fundamentalist, Bible-believing Christians" had this little nugget of kindness directed towards Jerry Falwell because he approved of a movie about Pope John Paul II-
Why would a Baptist leader promote a video by a religious leader who preaches a false gospel and thereby leads multitudes to eternal Hell? The Bible says the pope is under God’s curse (Galatians 1). Does Falwell not fear that someone reading his recommendation of the pope might be encouraged to listen to him and thereby be deceived into following Catholicism? The Bible says we are not even to bid “God speed” to those who deny the doctrine of Christ (2 John 8-11), because those who assist false teachers become partakers of their evil deeds. In praising the pope and recommending his video, Falwell is doing much more than bidding him “God speed.”
He goes on to say-
Roman Catholicism, because of its apostasy from the Word of God and the New Testament faith, is at the heart of American’s problem (as is theological modernism and every other anti-scriptural ism); it is foolish in the extreme to think that Romanism could somehow be part of the solution. How can Roman Catholicism, which has never produced true biblical morality, be an effective accomplice in a coalition to bring back morality to America? Wherever Roman Catholicism holds sway over men’s lives (visit Italy or Mexico or Ireland, for example), you will find rampant immorality (adultery, fornication, pornography, child molestation) (even in its priests), divorce, annulments, gambling, lascivious dancing, immodest dress, alcoholism, juvenile delinquency, idolatry, occultism, superstition, hypocrisy, agnosticism. It is with no sense of joy that I say these things, but this is a fact that I have observed with my own eyes. I realize that not every Catholic priest is a moral reprobate, but huge numbers of them are; and I realize that not every Catholic man or woman practices the things I have listed, but large numbers of them do. Roman Catholicism simply does not have the spiritual life and power to produce genuine biblical godliness. The Devil is the author of false religions like Roman Catholicism (2 Corinthians 11; 1 Timothy 4).
Christians shouldn't use Klan websites to get their information on the Catholic Church. So, how many Catholic groups say these things about Protestants? And your friend is upset about being called a 'Seperated Brethren'?
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri Sep 28th, 2007 01:26 am |
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3John4 wrote: He finds the term "separated brethren" insulting
Which term does he find insulting, "separated" or "brethren"?
Are we not brothers and sisters in Christ?
Are we not separated?
Does your friend believe that all churches that claim to be Christian are equally valid? Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Pentacostals, Assemblies of God, Churches of Christ Scientist, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and the 38,000 other denominations? What about Orthodox and Catholics? If he doesn't believe all are equally valid, why should we? More than a billion people hold my beliefs. How many hold his? My Church is 2000 years old. How old is his? Mine was founded by Jesus Christ. Who founded his? My Church still teaches that divorce and remarriage, cohabitation, contraception, abortion, premarital sex, and not going to church on Sunday are wrong. Does his?
By the way, the doctrine affirming the Catholic Church as the one true Church is also two thousand years old. The term "Catholic Chuch" was first used by Ignatius of Antioch in 107 A.D., give or take a few years. It is used in the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed. It was restated not by Pope Benedict but by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, with the pope's approval. It is doctrine (dogma, actually) and can never be changed.
But that doesn't mean that Protestants are "less Christian" or "inferior". It means that for whatever reason, they are separated from the fullness of Truth. No one denies that many Protestants are much "better" Christians than many Catholics. We are all on the same journey and many of us (Catholics and Protestants) will not finish our journey. But we still believe the Catholic Church is the best road. Many Protestants who are sincere in their faith will be welcomed in heaven. Many insincere Catholics won't be.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 877 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Fri Sep 28th, 2007 10:33 am |
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Mr. Bill,
I think that is the website, and the particular comment, I responded to several months ago. Basically, I said that one should look at Germany, where the Great Reformation began, or in England, where the English Reformation began. What about Holland, where the Dutch Reformers preached against the Catholic Church? What are the morals like in these countries today? Churches have closed and atheism/agnosticism reigns. What about slavery in England and these United States? Was it not many Protestants who defended slavery? What about the Salem Witch Trials? Did these Christians not hold to strict, Protestant Calvinist, fundamental beliefs? What about the KKK? Do they not claim to be Protestant Christians as well? What about all the Southern Baptists who were raised in that church and backslide, but still think they are going to Heaven because of the OSAS doctrine. It is not unusual to meet a Southern Baptist, who still considers themselves a Christian, yet finds nothing wrong with living an immoral life style, simply because they believe they're still going to Heaven. I remember while in North Carolina, there were Protestant churches everywhere. And yet, so was pornography. And a popular strip club was advertized on several huge bill boards right on the main highway.
Finally, I think at the root of this fundamentalist view is self-righteousness. For they not only condemn Catholics, but the majority of Protestant Christians as well.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1212 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Sep 29th, 2007 01:54 pm |
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| Darlene, I don't think there is or ever has been a church with perfect members. We all are guilty of sin. Catholics have their share, but they are not as hypocritical about drinking alcohol as protestants are. Catholic priests are portrayed more often in the media as being pedophiles because they are an easy target, a roman collar makes a better newsclip than a three piece suit, but there are as many protestant pastors guilty of the same thing. The idea of the above website claiming catholics are doing all those things and the protestants aren't would be laughable if the consequences weren't so serious. Is the verse "He who is without sin cast the first stone" still a part of the protestant bible? I forget, oh right, it's in the New Testament, well they must be interpreting it a different way!
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