 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
val4u
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 14 |
| First Name: | bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | cradle Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 08:10 am |
|
Thanks Rick for reminding me that I did have a question. The question is : Is it okay for a Catholic to believe in the possibility of a general rapture?
Thanks, Bill
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1715 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Online
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 09:29 am |
|
This page from EWTN gives a summary of the Catholic doctrine regarding the Last Things and end times. There is also an FAQ article referenced here. (Click on Apologetics, then on Rapture to view.)
Catholic Answers has an excellent article on Dispensationalism and Rapture.
Catholic apologist Carl Olson has compiled a useful comparison chart (PDF).
And Amazon provides a bibliography of Catholic books on the topic. (Top 10 are pertinent.)
David
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 11:47 am |
|
val4u wrote: Thanks Rick for reminding me that I did have a question. The question is : Is it okay for a Catholic to believe in the possibility of a general rapture?
I think that's a difficult question to answer. Protestants believe many things, and if you ask 25 people to explain the "rapture" beyond bumper-sticker phraseology, you're likely to get 25 answers. Unlike Catholic teaching, Protestant thought is not usually well defined.
There are certain facets of typical "rapture" teaching that are contrary to Catholic doctrine. Other facets are not. For example, we do not believe Jesus will come twice, once to take believers into heaven and a second time to "clean up" what's left. We do not believe there will be a "hidden" coming of our Savior; we believe we will see the Son of Man when he returns. And we believe no one knows the day or the hour except the heavenly Father.
David has given several resources that compare typical "rapture" belief with Catholic teaching. I suppose within the confines of Catholic teaching it is possible to find areas of "rapture" thought that are compatible with Catholic teaching, but I would rather live my life as if every day might be my last, however that end might occur.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 12:20 pm |
|
Cajunrick,
Great post and information. From a more cynical viewpoint, I dare say that much of the ballyhoo over a "rapture" reflects the literary imagination of Tim LaHaye and his partner, Mr. Jenkins, not to mention what all this attention will do for their bank accounts.
Should we be scared into seeking God? Surely, but there are ways to do it without appearing to use the method as a means of creating a cottage industry on the side. Logically people should be scared of a lifetime in eternal hell, apart from God's love and reach, not to mention always being at Satan's behest and call.
As you rightly point out, when the end comes it comes and we'd better be living our lives as if they were indeed numbered. (Well, they are, but on God's calendar and we'll never know the final date listed until then, which is God's perogative and business only.) Thank God that Catholic doctrine teaches about purgatory which should give anyone a clear idea that God works hard to make sure nobody winds up in Satan's clutches, unless they really want to go to hell.
This stands in stark contrast to the black n' white approach to salvation or hell, especially within conservative evangelical Protestantism. Catholicism may seem at first confusing when it comes to the last days, but I'll take our teachings over the mishmash of Protestant teachings and predictions as to the date and who's going to enter the Pearly Gates. We, of course, are holding first class tickets on a train bound for hell in the eyes of many Protestants -- with of course, Benedict as our engineer.
I'd just like to know a couple of things without seeming too flippant. How can the LaHayeites keep conjuring a such a rapture where planes will crash because the pilot was a full-blooded Christian, pile-ups on highways occur because the street traffic light computer operator was whisked up to Heaven. Or, God help anyone laying with his body hanging cut open and hanging in the balance because all the doctors and nurses were taken home during an operation. Talk about a hell of a pain when the patient wakes up!
What do you suppose the First Pope said to all those Protestants who denied his role as the First Pope, Leader, appointed by no less than Jesus? And what's he going to say to LaHaye/Jenkins when it's time for them?
I guess we have to stay tuned.
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
Juan
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | unregister | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | unregister |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 11:23 pm |
|
Thanks Rick for reminding me that I did have a question. The question is : Is it okay for a Catholic to believe in the possibility of a general rapture?
Well, I hope I don't cause confusion on this matter, but as a matter of fact, we, Catholics, are required to believe in the Rapture because we are required to believe Scripture and the Rapture is directly from Scripture. The Church does not teach that the Rapture will not happen.
Here are the relevant passages:
Matthew 24
40 Then two shall be in the field: one shall be taken, and one shall be left.
Luke 17
34 I say to you: in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
1 Thessalonians 4
16 Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall rise again incorruptible: and we shall be changed.
Here is a Catholic explanation of the Rapture:
http://www.globalserve.net/~bumblebee/ecclesia/rapture.htm
Sincerely,
Juan
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 12:39 am |
|
Juan wrote: Thanks Rick for reminding me that I did have a question. The question is : Is it okay for a Catholic to believe in the possibility of a general rapture?
Well, I hope I don't cause confusion on this matter, but as a matter of fact, we, Catholics, are required to believe in the Rapture because we are required to believe Scripture and the Rapture is directly from Scripture. The Church does not teach that the Rapture will not happen.
I certainly can't disagree with what you said, Juan, as it accurately reflects Catholic teaching. What it does not reflect is the typical Protestant understanding of the Rapture, which (at least in my understanding, which I admit is limited) includes a period of time in which those "left behind" will await another coming of the Savior. Catholic teaching is that there will be a single return of our Savior and all will be judged at that time. Those who have accepted salvation will be taken up; those who have not will descend into hell. This will be a single event, the last moment of time.
From the Catechism:
The Church's ultimate trial
675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.
676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.
677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.
Catholics United for the Faith have a Faith Fact called Dispensing with the Rapture: Now You See 'Em, Now You Don't. A second Faith Fact called Apocalypse Not Now - The Church, The Millennium, and The Rapture considers the thousand year reign of Christ based on Rev 20 and 1 Thess 4.17.
Catholic Answers also has a tract on The Rapture.
As for the term "rapture" itself, it does not appear in the Revised Standard Version. The NAB footnote for 1 Thess 4.17 reads,
Will be caught up together: literally, snatched up, carried off; cf 2 Cor 12:2; Rev 12:5. From the Latin verb here used, rapiemur, has come the idea of "the rapture," when believers will be transported away from the woes of the world; this construction combines this verse with Matthew 24:40-41 (see the note there) // Luke 17:34-35 and passages from Revelation in a scheme of millennial dispensationalism.
The only appearance of the word "rapture" in the actual text of the NAB is in Judith 12.16 where it refers to lust, not the end times:
Then Judith came in and reclined on it. The heart of Holofernes was in rapture over her, and his spirit was shaken. He was burning with the desire to possess her, for he had been biding his time to seduce her from the day he saw her.
So, in my opinion, using the term "rapture" to describe Catholic teaching is at best misleading. But you are correct in that Catholic teaching does reflect a belief that those to be saved will be taken up at the final trump.
That's why I said some aspects of typical Protestant beliefs in the Rapture are compatible with Catholic teaching and others are not. We will simply have to agree to disagree over the use of the term.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 11:36 am |
|
Hope I didn't give the impression that I didn't believe there was anything in any Bible regarding the Rapture that Catholics should ignore. If it's in the Bible, we shouldn't toss it our of our minds simply because we don't like it.
It's just that I believe nobody knows for sure how The End will occur. Nor should we be overly concerned about the event, as opposed to our necessity to live our lives as if death could come at any moment and for any reason God decides it's our time -- but only regarding individual deaths.
My major bone of contention with the Left Behind authors is the crass commercialization of a pretty straightforward message for each of us to turn our lives around and follow Christ. If LaHaye and Jenkins bring more people back to Christ, fine (and especially FINE if they become Catholics!) But why all the schlocky movies and an atrocious computer action game where people who don't embrace Christ are to be gunned down in order to earn points to advance. Some advancement.
Wasn't there something else in the Bible about people who live by the sword (or sub-automatic) die by the same?
We should live as if our lives not only mattered to ourselves, others and especially our loved ones. But most importantly, we should live our lives as if our souls mattered to Christ. Then, when the Rapture occurs, we can all be sleeping better on that great soft pillow of a clean conscience.
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
Juan
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | unregister | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | unregister |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 10:19 pm |
|
What it does not reflect is the typical Protestant understanding of the Rapture, which (at least in my understanding, which I admit is limited) includes a period of time in which those "left behind" will await another coming of the Savior.
I believe the difference between the Protestant version and the Catholic is that the Protestants believe that those "left behind" are the ones which will be condemned.
The Catholic version is that the final trial/persecution will come first, many will die and the ones "left behind" (i.e. those who have persevered to the end) will be "raptured" into the clouds where they will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye.
I think what you are trying to say is capsulized in the second Faith Fact you provided:
Catholics believe that this event will happen at the general resurrection and Last Judgment, but they do not refer to the event as “the rapture.”
Unfortunately, I think this faith fact is far from the truth. I assure you that virtually every Catholic that I know who speaks of this event calls it "the Rapture."
And personally, I think it is a perfectly good word which describes the event succinctly and thoroughly. After all, rapture means joy beyond comprehension and speaks of the ecstacy of the union of two lovers.
Sincerely,
Juan
|
|
|
steppenwolf1218
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Abingdon, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 16 |
| First Name: | Dennis | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2007 12:28 am |
|
Steven Barrett wrote:
Hope I didn't give the impression that I didn't believe there was anything in any Bible regarding the Rapture that Catholics should ignore. If it's in the Bible, we shouldn't toss it our of our minds simply because we don't like it.
It didn't appear to me as if you did. The problem with La Haye and his cronies is the same with most Protestant interpretation of the "end times". Namely, they base their beliefs on Revelations rather than the words of Jesus in the Gospel. I help facilitate Bible study in my parish and one thing I usually tell people who are starting Bible study is that the two most confusing and misunderstood books of the Bible are the two that begin and end the Bible, Genesis and Revelations. John wrote Revelations with a two fold purpose. One was to call the various churches of the Johanine community back to the Faith in which he had instructed him. That was his main purpose in the latter part of his life as differences in teachings and theologies were putting the early Church at odds within itself. That was the driving force behind his Epistle, Gospel and part of Revelations. Much of the Apocolyptic visions in the book were directed at Rome and the Emperor Nero through coded words like the beast and Babylon. The four horsemen aren't even angels of death necessarilly. It was not unlike God to use earthly forces to accomplish His intentions. Ref. the plagues of Egypt and the apocraphal writings of Isaiah as examples of this. There are certainly many lessons and teachings to be had from Revelations but apocryphal destruction of the end times was just one of them from certain contexts and not the main theme. It was mainly a calling back to the original teachings and the hope given that God will put an end to Nero and the persecutions. That's a very simplistic interpretation of Revelations but there it is. What we need to know about the end times was said by Jesus Himself in the Gospels. John was not in the habit of repeating what was already written down.
Take care
Dennis
____________________
Logic demands explanations. God defies explanations yet God is logical and it is logical to believe in God. Therein lies the conundrum for the atheist.
|
|
|
val4u
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 14 |
| First Name: | bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | cradle Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2007 08:41 am |
|
Thanks to all of you for your insights and to Jaun , I call that Gods 50% rule. I,m trying to be ready whatever happens. I have put my trust in His Devine Mercy and it is also the prayer for my family.
Bill
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 24th, 2007 12:35 pm |
|
Steppenwolf,
Excellent explanation in your reply to my comments. It's all in the Lord's hands and we have to live our lives as we'll be called home at any time.
I believe the Darbyites, and other Protestants are getting all hung up about Revelations or the Apopcalypse and making life unneccessarilly complicated with all their intricate "interpretations," diagrams and so forth. And, as for the debate on evolution, all Christians need to remember are those terrific five words "In the beginning, God created..."
S.
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
steppenwolf1218
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Abingdon, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 16 |
| First Name: | Dennis | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 24th, 2007 07:55 pm |
|
Steve,
I agree totally. Usually when I get into discussions about the end times I make it a point to remind others that it is best to prepare for their own end times or personal judgement as it were because that is more likely to happen before the skies darken and the stars fall out. If you're as ready to meet the Lord as you can humanly be then the rest won't matter.
Dennis
____________________
Logic demands explanations. God defies explanations yet God is logical and it is logical to believe in God. Therein lies the conundrum for the atheist.
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
|
Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 02:28 pm |
|
Dennis,
Thank you. If you really want a good laugh, take a look at LaHaye's book just about the Rapture. He didn't intend it as "fiction" but it ought to be.
He's got a heap of drawings that'd embarrass a junior high schooler and a lot of mishmash for "theology." More like mashed theology and mashed nonsense.
Ridiculous, but always a good laugh. And people think we're complicated?
We're a nice easy to maintain 66 Ford Falcon with a straight six and room to see the floor where the tools usually dropped. Like all "improvements" -- many Protestants only managed to come up with the environmentally and energy-friendly jobs that would take a NASA engineer to really figure out.
Gee, I miss my Ford, my "first (4-wheeled) love".
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
Juan
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | unregister | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | unregister |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 02:52 pm |
|
Steven Barrett wrote:
Ridiculous, but always a good laugh. And people think we're complicated?
We're a nice easy to maintain 66 Ford Falcon with a straight six and room to see the floor where the tools usually dropped.
Too many sixes in there for me!
|
|
|
AD
Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 32 |
| First Name: | AL | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Baptist Pentacostal Non Denominational |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 28th, 2007 08:53 pm |
|
Wow, You guys can do some pertty good Baptist bashing your selves
Im starting to feel right at home. I think Saint Paul said to all ways be polite though as were rippin-em a new one Right?
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 28th, 2007 09:00 pm |
|
AD wrote: Wow, You guys can do some pertty good Baptist bashing your selves
We try very hard not to bash people of other faiths. We can't help questioning their beliefs, and the way some of them treat Catholics. Most of us have had some very bad experiences with people of certain Protestant denominations telling us we are certain to go to hell. It's hard to look favorably on people who continually condemn us for what we believe, even though we refuse to condemn them.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
steppenwolf1218
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Abingdon, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 16 |
| First Name: | Dennis | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2007 12:53 am |
|
Steven Barrett wrote:
Gee, I miss my Ford, my "first (4-wheeled) love".
I'm right there with you. My very first car was a '63 straight six Ford Falcon. Wasn't any good for racing of course but I sure loved that car.
____________________
Logic demands explanations. God defies explanations yet God is logical and it is logical to believe in God. Therein lies the conundrum for the atheist.
|
|
|
steppenwolf1218
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Abingdon, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 16 |
| First Name: | Dennis | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2007 01:06 am |
|
AD wrote: Wow, You guys can do some pertty good Baptist bashing your selves
It's not about the bashing. Sometimes it's hard not to though. For those times I have learned to offer Apologetics (explanations) for what and why we believe. Others can accept or not accept the explanations. That is their choice. Believe me I know well how difficult it is to keep one's head with such types who would attack another faith. But if I am to truly believe in the fullness of my faith then I must offer only my actions and words as explanations and proclamations only, then offer my hand in help. That is not the way of the human. It is the way of the human attuned to God's graces and mercy. It is a difficult and at times seemingly impossible state to maintain one's self but it is the only true way to be.
____________________
Logic demands explanations. God defies explanations yet God is logical and it is logical to believe in God. Therein lies the conundrum for the atheist.
|
|
|
Ali
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 622 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2007 07:23 am |
|
Juan wrote: Here are the relevant passages:
Matthew 24
40 Then two shall be in the field: one shall be taken, and one shall be left.
Luke 17
34 I say to you: in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
1 Thessalonians 4
16 Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall rise again incorruptible: and we shall be changed.
Unfortunately, not everyone is Catholic, and they twist those scriptures to meet their own idea of what' going to happen. JW's don't believe in the rapture, yet the 1 Corinthians verse you quoted was used to show how the "reserection" would happen during Christ's thousand year reign here on earth. And, though I'm not positive, I would guess to remember the Luke verse was a seperating of God's chosen people on earth; the seperation from the sheep and goats Not those to be whisked away to heaven.
Talk about a flashback when I read "In the twinkling of an eye." Whew! That was a favorite catch phrase.
Ali
|
|
|
AD
Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 32 |
| First Name: | AL | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Baptist Pentacostal Non Denominational |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2007 10:30 pm |
|
CajunRick wrote: AD wrote: Wow, You guys can do some pertty good Baptist bashing your selves
We try very hard not to bash people of other faiths. We can't help questioning their beliefs, and the way some of them treat Catholics. Most of us have had some very bad experiences with people of certain Protestant denominations telling us we are certain to go to hell. It's hard to look favorably on people who continually condemn us for what we believe, even though we refuse to condemn them.
Thats ok with me Rick. I don't feel the heat yet. I said up front I was hear to gain a better understanding of the catholic faith and by invitation of ETWN. I do not at the present time believe the way the catholic church teaches but that said, I have no plans to bash anyone. I have family (brother in laws niece, friends) who are in or claim to be catholic. I think the ones in my family might be in the dog house so to speak with the church. They seem to have trouble making mass except for here and there. I am very well grounded in my faith and no objection to strong opposition and Im not here looking to pick a fight with anyone. Im here to understand why people believe the things they do. I am not what you call sola scripture, The bibles way or the highway so to speak, but then again, I dont hold to a lot of the magic shop stuff people spread around. When some one is speaking for GOD and saying He says this is the way, I dont care if He's Baptist, Catholic, or garbage collector, I run every thing thru the Holy Spirit and if it doesn't fit, then I don't wear it. Im not talking about all the deep teaching and Hebrew and Greek and Latin Translation stuff or defending the 12 points of the 13th order, LOL Im talking about how I live my life out every day with the Holy Spirit right there ready to correct me when I get off base and when Im out of fellowship with Him I know it because His Spirit bears witness with my spirit. I am not walking around deceived and I hope you have that same witness of the Holy Spirit in your life as you make your Journey home. Peace my Brother
|
|
|
Br_Carlo
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tyler, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 153 |
| First Name: | Br_Carlo (Vince Brach) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Episcopalian, CATHOLIC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2007 11:43 pm |
|
God's peace. Juan quoted:
34 I say to you: in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Just a bit farther down, we read that "just as in the days of Noah . . .." I think this means that the wicked, not the just, are the ones who will be taken.
Let's not forget Scott Hahn's marvelous The Lamb's Supper, which re-tells the teaching of many of the early Fathers that Revelation is really a description of the Eucharist as heaven on Earth. Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
Last edited on Sun Jul 1st, 2007 09:09 am by Br_Carlo
|
|
|
Juan
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | unregister | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | unregister |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2007 12:18 am |
|
God's peace. Juan quoted:
34 I say to you: in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Just a bit farther down, we read that "just as in the days of Noah . . .." I think this means that the wicked, not the just, are the ones who willl be taken.
Sounds right and corresponds to St. Paul's verse:
1 Thessalonians 4
16 Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord.
Sincerely,
Juan
|
|
|
Current time is 12:09 pm | |
|
|
|
|
|
