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beachmoss
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Simpsonville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Beth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic (raised Baptist) |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 01:05 am |
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My kids just asked me if everyone in Heaven is perfect. I answered "yes." Then I wondered if that was the correct answer.
I'm guessing that only perfection would be allowed into Heaven, yet do we not retain at least a trace of humanity when we get there? And isn't to be human to be imperfect. I believe that we shall receive perfect, spiritual bodies at our resurrection, but until that point do our souls reflect our humanity in it's imperfection? Or are they made totally perfect in purgatory?
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 01:20 am |
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beachmoss wrote: My kids just asked me if everyone in Heaven is perfect. I answered "yes." Then I wondered if that was the correct answer.
I'm guessing that only perfection would be allowed into Heaven, yet do we not retain at least a trace of humanity when we get there? And isn't to be human to be imperfect. I believe that we shall receive perfect, spiritual bodies at our resurrection, but until that point do our souls reflect our humanity in it's imperfection? Or are they made totally perfect in purgatory?
I think the proper answer would be that all in heaven have been perfected. We are certainly imperfect humans, but we must be purged of all impurities before we can enter the presence of the Most High God. I think that difference is important. When we are in heaven, are we perfect? Yes. But that perfection is not due to us, it is due to God who has purged us.
In Louisiana, we "purge" crawfish before boiling them. It involves soaking them in clean water which is then drained and replaced before the boiling begins. This is not something the crawfish can do for themselves as they do not have access to clean water. In the same way, God "washes" us clean of our impurities through a process of purgation. We stand in awe as we are washed in God's love (the "Blood of the Lamb") until we are whiter than snow, just like those crawfish are purged of their impurities to prepare them for their fate. I don't know if this is a good analogy, but in both cases the purged "product" is cleaner than it ever could be on its own. Crawfish are merely cleaned; we are perfected, made perfect by God's love and grace.
In rereading what I wrote above, I can see that the analogy is both correct and confusing. We let crawfish swim in clean water which flows through them to clean them, in much the same way that God's grace flows through us to clean us of our impurities. I hope that makes sense.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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beachmoss
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Simpsonville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Beth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic (raised Baptist) |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 01:29 am |
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| Thank you! That was a very good exdplanation. I think your analogy was right on--even if the thought of cooking crawfish disgusts me!
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Annie
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| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 01:19 pm |
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Crawfish are just tiny lobsters!
I like the idea that I am a spiritual crawfish. I need soaking and then some boiling.
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Annie
Ora et labora
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Tina in Ashburn
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| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ashburn, Virginia USA |
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| First Name: | Tina | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Roman Catholic, Ukranian Catholic, presently practicing as Roman Latin ... |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 07:23 pm |
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Wait... you mean... nobody gets to heaven except SAINTS??? BBBBBut...! How hard is this "conversion" thing going to be exactly?
~ Sounds like crawfish are "in"! ~
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
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| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 08:10 pm |
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There goes that Cajun using analogies again! 
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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lia
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| Joined: | Mon Dec 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Quezon City, Philippines |
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| First Name: | lia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 03:02 am |
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I forgot which saint mentioned something about purgatory wherein, even though it is a step away from heaven, it's pretty much like hell. That's why Jesus said "Be holy like your heavenly Father is holy." because even though we have purgatory, it would still be best to go straight to heaven like the saints.
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Man can't b forced 2 accept the truth.He can b drawn toward the truth only by his own nature, that is, by his own freedom w/c commits him 2 search sincerely 4 truth & when he finds it, 2 adhere 2 it both in his conviction & his behavior.-- JP2
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 03:06 am |
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| I do know that no nothing impure will enter heaven. But I am also aware that we believe that even in heaven we will keep growing more and more to be like Christ. That it will never finish. The idea of theosis. So I thought being perfect meant to be made complete. In a sense we will be perfect I think because we will sin no more, ut in a nother sense is it not true that we are going to continually grow and never completely arrive at the fullness of God who transcends all, yet we will become more and morer like Him? And if there is no time in eternity how does it follow that our perfection would continue after death if there is no 'time' for such a process of theosis to take place?
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lia
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| First Name: | lia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jul 29th, 2007 11:44 pm |
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brian wrote: And if there is no time in eternity how does it follow that our perfection would continue after death if there is no 'time' for such a process of theosis to take place?
I think once we are in heaven, we wouldn't worry (nor will it matter) "when" theosis will take place. It will always be overshadowed with the fact that .... "I AM WITH GOD, THEREFORE I AM HAPPY." 
____________________
Man can't b forced 2 accept the truth.He can b drawn toward the truth only by his own nature, that is, by his own freedom w/c commits him 2 search sincerely 4 truth & when he finds it, 2 adhere 2 it both in his conviction & his behavior.-- JP2
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Juan
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
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Posted: Mon Jul 30th, 2007 09:40 am |
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My kids just asked me if everyone in Heaven is perfect. I answered "yes." Then I wondered if that was the correct answer.
Correct.
Apocalypse 21
27 There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb.
I'm guessing that only perfection would be allowed into Heaven, yet do we not retain at least a trace of humanity when we get there?
We are more human when we get there. A perfect car doesn't fly because flying is not the attribute of a perfect car. A car wasn't designed to fly. It was designed to roll down the freeway.
A perfect human adores God with all his heart and soul because that is what a human was designed to do:
"God, you have made us for yourself, and our hearts are restless till they find their rest in you"
St. Augustine
Psalms 41
2 As the hart panteth after the fountains of water; so my soul panteth after thee, O God.
And isn't to be human to be imperfect.
No.
Everything God creates is perfect. God can do no less. When God created humanity, that is, when God created Adam and Eve, they were perfect humans.
Adam and Eve lost that perfection when they sinned.
I believe that we shall receive perfect, spiritual bodies at our resurrection, but until that point do our souls reflect our humanity in it's imperfection?
God creates each spiritual soul directly. So, the newly created spiritual soul is perfect. But when the spiritual soul is united to the flesh in conception in the womb, the soul then reflects human imperfection.
Jesus Christ said:
Matthew 5
48 Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.
Therefore we believe that a human soul can achieve perfection in this life by exercising perfect obedience. St. Paul and Elijah would be examples from the Bible:
2 Timothy 4
8 As to the rest, there is laid up for me a crown of justice, which the Lord the just judge will render to me in that day:
Or are they made totally perfect in purgatory?
If venial sin or satisfaction for sin remains on the soul, yes.
Sincerely,
Juan
Last edited on Mon Jul 30th, 2007 09:42 am by Juan
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steppenwolf1218
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| Location: | Abingdon, Maryland USA |
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| First Name: | Dennis | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jul 31st, 2007 02:41 am |
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beachmoss wrote: My kids just asked me if everyone in Heaven is perfect. I answered "yes." Then I wondered if that was the correct answer.
I'm guessing that only perfection would be allowed into Heaven, yet do we not retain at least a trace of humanity when we get there? And isn't to be human to be imperfect. I believe that we shall receive perfect, spiritual bodies at our resurrection, but until that point do our souls reflect our humanity in it's imperfection? Or are they made totally perfect in purgatory?
The fullness of humanity is perfection. God does not create imperfection. When our humanity becomes perfectly attuned to the Divine Father, just as Jesus' humanity was perfectly attuned to His Divine nature, then we will become perfect. The imperfections come from our use of our free will. With our free will we either choose God or we don't. That is really all our free will comes down to. So to answer you as best I can, if we live honestly as best we can by the teachings of Jesus in seeking the Father through Him, we shall be made perfect in the eyes of the Father through His love and grace.
Many of such questions are not so important as the need to become as perfect as we can right now. As Jesus said though, that is only possible through the Father. I believe that when it is all said and done, we will discover that the answers we sometime seek aren't answered but we will realize that they weren't important and definately not necessarry. In other words, the question isn't how we will become perfected in Heaven but rather how do we get there to become perfected.
Take care
Dennis
____________________
Logic demands explanations. God defies explanations yet God is logical and it is logical to believe in God. Therein lies the conundrum for the atheist.
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