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Angie_Rivas1
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Downey, USA |
| Posts: | 110 |
| First Name: | Angie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 01:39 pm |
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My dad’s 7th death anniversary is coming up next month. He died at a young age of diabetes. There is something about dieing that I’m confused about. My dad had a stroke and was in coma for a week. He was scheduled for surgery to have one of his legs amputated. He died the morning of the surgery day. My younger sister believes that my dad could have lived longer if we’d had the financial means and had been older (meaning more knowledge/educated about the disease). I have a problem with this statement, though. Where is God’s will in this thinking? The Lord knows when it will be our last day in this earth and how each of us is going to die, right? I mean He allows certain things to happen for a reason, right? I believe my daddy was ready to go home and if the Lord wanted it He could have cured him. In his last year, he had tremendous pain. Back then, I did not understand much about suffering, I saw a defeated man. Now I know that his face reflected acceptance and surrender. There are times when I get very concerned about her thinking. I know she loves the Lord, but she thinks that our God cannot do much for His people in this world because He would not break His own Laws. What about the miracles? What about the power of prayer for others? If it is real, how much of God's plan can be changed?
Angie
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"Be not afraid" JPII
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1212 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 03:02 pm |
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| Angie, that's a really good question! And I hope there will be some good answers to reassure you and help you talk with your sister. It is my understanding that God does know what is going to happen, but we have free will. Because He is not limited to time the way we are, everything is present to Him. We need to worship Him and pray for ourselves and for others, because it is His will that we do that. We exercise our free will to do His will. It is your freedom to choose to live the life you live, God just knows ahead what you're going to do. Is this right, David and Rick?
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 03:12 pm |
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Angie_Rivas1 wrote: If it is real, how much of God's plan can be changed?
God's plan cannot be changed. What changes is our attitude toward it.
There are such things as miraculous healings. However, I can assure you that the time to "heal" the complications of diabetes is very early in life, before severe damage is done. Once arteries clog, kidneys fail, blood vessels in the eyes leak and cause blindless, there is little that can be done medically. Yes, if it is God's will, a miraculous healing can take place. But isn't the real miracle that your dad had reached acceptance? He used his illness to draw closer to God.
When my wife was diagnosed with diabetes in 1982, the doctors told her she had five years before complications began to set in, and gave her 20 years to live in misery before she died of kidney failure, or lost a limb, or went blind. She was not expected to make it to 50. It was inevitable. Instead, she took control and now 25 years later (at age 50), she shows absolutely no sign of diabetic complications. Is there a miracle there? Is the miracle that she refused to accept what was then the best medical advice available and took her care to a higher level? Is it God's plan for her to show others that it is possible to overcome a chronic disease?
The real tragedy to me is a four year old who is healthy, active, and beautiful, and develops a ganglioma to the brain stem that is incurable, inoperable, and intensely painful. I visited her as her family watched her die, convinced that God would cure her. The healing God offered was to them, and they refused it.
God does not will us to die. God wishes us to live forever. That's why Jesus came to promise us eternal life. Celebrate the date of your father's death as his feast day. It is on this date that he entered eternity, and now he is your personal saint in heaven. Talk to him, pray to him, ask for his assistance and guidance. And the Church will celebrate with you on the Feast of All Saints on November 1.
By the way, next month (October) is also the anniversary of my father's death. He died shortly after I returned from Haiti in 2001. He was much older but also suffered from a chronic disease, emphysema. His death was a blessing as he is now reunited with my mother, and once again has the breath and the energy to dance.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1715 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 10:33 pm |
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Angie, even though it seems to be a popular pastime, I do not believe it is within the realm of human knowledge to play this kind of “what if” game in any meaningful way.
The one thing you know for sure is that your father died. Whether he might have been helped by better knowledge or more prudent action on the part of anyone cannot be evaluated because the fact is that he wasn’t helped by anyone’s knowledge or action; he died all the same.
Meanwhile, yes, it is true that God wills or permits that a given person will die at a certain time. This should not be taken as a fateful event simply awaiting its time, however. As human beings, we do not know without special revelation what God’s will is regarding the time of someone’s death. So we must go by the natural indications and apply natural remedies to illness or other conditions. You, your sister and the doctors did what you could to save him, but he was beyond help. You must accept this without making it into an “it was meant to be” fatalism.
If your father was, as you say, “ready to go home,” then it was good that the Lord took him when he did. But you must recognize that it is your own judgment that this was the case. And if your sister disagrees, this again is fallible human judgment, and it need not disturb you or your relationship with her.
If your sister believes that things could have been handled better, perhaps they could. But in saying that, she is incriminating herself, not God. And she is, in her mind, shortening the arm of the Lord, not granting him the power of his own will. If I were you, I wouldn’t worry about your sister’s ideas. They are her ideas, not yours. And according to those ideas, she will be disturbed far more than you over her father’s death.
As Catholics, we accept the power of prayer. We also accept the possibility of miracles. But these things work rather differently than is apparent from our creaturely perspective.
Rick and Marsha are right about God’s will: it does not change. When it appears to change, it is just that — the appearance of change. His decision may in fact be contingent on whether and how a person prays, but since he already knows the reality of that prayer, his will is eternally fixed. So it is our attitude or perception that changes, not God or his will. In this way, we can say that prayer “influences” God and he “answers” our prayer.
David
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faithfl1
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 64 |
| First Name: | Sharon | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | protestant, non-denominational (born-again), Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Oct 2nd, 2007 03:52 pm |
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If we start to question God's perfect timing we can get so confused. I will never understand tragic death, or, suffering for that matter. I just know that we need to have unwaivering Faith in our Lord and his decision's. I don't know you or you're family, but maybe (I'm just giving my opinion from my own experiences) your dad was the type of man who just couldn't bear to lose his leg, only God knows if he could have lived well with that misfortune. Also, he might have been too proud to have to rely on help from all of you for the rest of his life (I mean too proud in a good way).
I know my Father was (he passed on 16 yrs. ago) a very strong, gruff man. "HE didn't GET sick!!" (Ha Ha!) At least that's what he projected. He (I say this lovingly,Dad) would have made our Lives miserable if we would have had to take "care" of him in any way. So my Mom and I decided, since we had to face that he was gone, we should be thankful to God for taking him quickly instead of having him suffer any length of time. Also, for not sparing his life, that would have had to be lived out with some sort of Handicap that would have made him feel less of a Man. That would have been very, very hard for him.
Remember, the Lord work's in mysterious ways. Most times way's that we can't understand, but have to be thankful for in the end. I truly hope I didn't overstep here. I just felt compelled to share and give my opinion. God Bless! I will pray for you and your sister. For wisdom, guidance and the for the Lord to surround you both with his Love and Comfort. God Bless!!
Last edited on Tue Oct 2nd, 2007 03:54 pm by faithfl1
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Sharon S.
...I love you, Lord, my strength Psalm 18:2
I have the strength for everything through Him who empowers me. Phil 4:13
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Angie_Rivas1
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Downey, USA |
| Posts: | 110 |
| First Name: | Angie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 08:05 pm |
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faithfl1 wrote: he might have been too proud to have to rely on help from all of you for the rest of his life (I mean too proud in a good way).
Sharon,
You have not overstepped at all. Thanks for your comments. I am certain my dad is in a better place. I thank God for showing His mercy and the gift of salvation. I totally love (made me cry) what Rick said about my daddy's acceptance. I've never heard it that way. It was a miracle!!! I am still wondering about the above comment because that's how I feel about the whole situation. He did not want to live like that? Did he give up fighting and pray the Lord would take him? or was his time up because he was done with his mission?
Angie
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"Be not afraid" JPII
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