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Lyell
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| Joined: | Wed Mar 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Livermore, California USA |
| Posts: | 25 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Independant Charismatic, Generic Baptist, Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 12:29 am |
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I have often wondered about this title for Mary: Queen of Heaven.
The teaching I have heard on this is that the title “Queen of Heaven” stems from the fact that Jesus fulfills
the Kingdom of David: Jesus is THE King in the Davidic line who reigns forever. If you look at the
Davidic kings in the Old Testament, you find that they had a Queen and they had many wives. So who was
the Queen? Which wife and how do you pick? (one of a great many problems when one has many wives, I
suspect, and maybe not the least one) Turns out that the Queen in the court of the King of David was the
mother of the King: the "Queen Mother". Remember Bathsheba, mother of King Solomon in I Kings 2:19.
After David had died and Solomon was King, someone asked her to take his request to King Solomon, so
she did. When she entered the throne room (without an appointment, as I recall) King Solomon got up off
his throne, bowed to her (the Queen) and made her sit on a throne.
So far so good: Jesus is the King of David, He honors His mother Mary as the Queen Mother in perfect
fulfillment of the Kingdom of David, and we can give her our requests to take into the King's throne room.
But in I Kings 19, after Bathsheba delivers the petition to the King, it ends badly for the petitioner. He
does not get his request, and Solomon has him killed.
What am I to make of this? Is the message that she really has the title “Queen of Heaven”, and it may or
may not be good to have the Queen Mother carry our petitions in to the King, because it may turn out
badly for us?
____________________
Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ - St Jerome
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 854 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 12:53 am |
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I may have considered that myself at some point.
However, I think that was more because of the circumstances of that particular event. But you can see how willing the king was to fully entertain his mothers wishes. This demonstrates how powerful the Queen's intercession is if the king automatically seems to assume that he will grant her request. Plus we have to remember that these are human beings with flawed knowledge. The reality of who and what they point to or shadow - that of Jesus as king and Mary as queen mother - are now perfect in love and charity not bound by time or other limitations and therfore not likely to ask for the wrong thing or make a mistake. So I would personally use the passage to demonstrate that Queen Mother's did exist, were highly honored, and her opinions/requests was taken to an extreme degree of seriousness; despite the fact that in that instance things did not turn out a certain way.
Would I prefer that the ending be more positive so this would give us an even better apologetic argument? Well, that might seem nice to me.  But in His wisdom God decided not to consult me on this decision. Nonetheless, I think there is enough evidence in that passage to greatly enhance our view of Mary's significance and that of her intercession as Queen Mother.
But if you want a strong secondary passage to demonstrate Mary as a royal figure think of ways Revelation 12 may apply to her.
1A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head...
Hope this makes you more comfortable with the teaching.
Brian
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 09:04 pm |
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I think the point is that Mary's Queenship does not override the Kingship of Jesus. As with Bathsheba, Mary in her role as Queen of Heaven can carry our petitions (prayers) directly to her son the King, but ultimately it is His role to determine how to respond. - All prayers are answered, just sometimes the answer is no.
Regards Dave
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Lyell
Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Livermore, California USA |
| Posts: | 25 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Independant Charismatic, Generic Baptist, Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Apr 21st, 2007 03:24 am |
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Thanks for your thoughts. I did a search on the word "mother" in one of the on line bible sites, and am amazed at all the times a new king of Judah or Israel is introduced in I and II Kings ... "and his mother's name was" is how they are identified. The kings mother was very important, and often (always?) identified. I Kings 15:2 for example "His mother's name was Maacah, daughter of ..." She is called the Queen Mother in verse 13. This chapter is another tail of human sin and complication, but again the Kings mother is very important.
I found a reference in Daniel (5:10-11) where King Belshazzar's Queen is identified as the Queen Mother (in the footnote of my NRSV). Belshazzar was a gentile King.
And 2 Kings 11 where the Queen Mother Athaliah turned bad after her son the king died. She killed all the royal family she could find and assumed power herself. Her grandson was eventually placed on the throne at a young age (by the good priest) and the wicked Queen Athaliah was killed.
I guess these stories all parallel the stories of the Kings of David. Some good people, lots of sinners, and getting worse as time goes by. So how can Jesus be "proud" to follow in their line? How can Mary be "proud" to follow in the line of the Queen Mothers of the Davidic Kings? These questions, I think, have the same answer. Jesus (and Mary?) are the perfect fulfillment of the (flawed) types of the Old Covenant?
Sorry If I am rambling: its getting late. I am chewing on this subject because I am going to teach a class on Mary soon, and this is one area I was doubtful about.....
I will use the Rev 12 passage for this also.....
Your comments have helped.
____________________
Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ - St Jerome
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