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SBC2RCC
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | York, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 126 |
| First Name: | Monte | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | was Southern Baptist Minister, now Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Oct 21st, 2006 10:12 pm |
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One of the great things in the Catholic Church is learning about the Saints and other Blesseds. I started this long before, as I love to read.
And really, protestants are just as enamored of reading stories of heroic efforts by missionaries and preachers throughout history.
The first saint story I read was about Polycarp and his martyrdom. While attending a Baptist college I also studied the lives of Saint Augustine, St. Anselm, and St. Thomas Aquinas as part of my philosophy classes.
In later years, I have eagerly read about St. Francis of Assisi, Saint Patrick, Saint Benedict, The English Martyrs, The North American Martyrs, Saint Ignatius of Loyola. (I joked that I was a closet Baptist Jesuit)
More recently, I have read about Saints Francis DeSales, Peter Fabre, Catherine of Avila, John of the Cross, Terese the Little Flower, Maximillian Kolbe, and the saint that Benedict Groeschel is named for, Joseph Benedict Labre.
When I was a Baptist pastor, I once used the Easter message given by St. John Chrysostom at a sunrise service.
Of course, Saint Mary, Our Lady, is the greatest of all saints.
Please share some of the saints that you are most impressed by their stories, or who have become favorites.
Here are a few links that I like to recommend:
On Hagiography: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07106b.htm
For Saint Jospeh Benedict Labre: http://guildbjlabre.com/
Saint of the Day at American Catholic: http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/SaintofDay/default.asp
(you may need to back up to the AMerican Catholic page and click on the link)
Last edited on Sat Oct 21st, 2006 10:13 pm by SBC2RCC
____________________
In Christ,
Monte W
(Formerly on CHN Forum as "Pilgrim Paul"
Minima Maxima Sunt
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SBC2RCC
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | York, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 126 |
| First Name: | Monte | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | was Southern Baptist Minister, now Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2006 11:03 pm |
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Maybe folks would like to share some of their favorite saints and or stories about their lives.
I will say that I find myself praying for Saint Anthony to help me find something. Once I find it, then I ask myself, did he help? And the answer is always, being thankful to God for finding it, and any help I have gotten. -- It was lost, I couldn't find it, and then after I asked Saint Anthony, it was found!
This is NOT magic, and not 100%, especially if one is using it like a test, but when I need help, I ask.
____________________
In Christ,
Monte W
(Formerly on CHN Forum as "Pilgrim Paul"
Minima Maxima Sunt
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5347 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2006 11:32 pm |
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SBC2RCC wrote: Maybe folks would like to share some of their favorite saints and or stories about their lives.
I had a lady who was in RCIA with her entire family, coming from a fundamentalist background. Their home had been on the market for over a year with few nibbles and no serious offers.
Someone told her about the practice of burying a statue of St. Joseph in the yard, so she did. Still no nibbles. She came to RCIA one night and told us she had no faith in this "superstition" since she had buried St. Joseph in a pot and set it on her back porch.
Well, we told her we didn't believe in superstition either, but also told her that she had to bury St. Joseph upside down in the actual ground to fulfill the terms of the legend. Well, she went home that night and buried St. Joseph properly, with the holy water and the right prayer and the whole ball of wax. She had three serious offers within a week, and within a month she had sold her house for $5,000 more than her original asking price. The statue, dug up and cleaned up, is proudly displayed in her new, Catholic home.
Do I believe in the superstition that burying a statue of St. Joseph can help you sell your house? Absolutely not.
Does she believe? What do you think?
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Esther
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Kansas City, Kansas USA |
| Posts: | 147 |
| First Name: | Esther | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist to Roman Catholic 11/26/06 |
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Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2006 01:09 am |
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Monte,
My story may not be extraordinary to anyone else, but it changed my life. I found out some pretty rough news about my health. Frankly, it was no ones fault but my own I was in the situation. My past came back to bite me and a cold hard reality sunk in. I could die. I was supposed to go in and get my results in a couple of days. So I prayed a novena to St Therese. I didn't pray for the results to be negative (although I was hoping for that). I prayed for the acceptance of results and to know I wasn't alone when I was receiving the results. I prayed for her to send me a rose. I desperately looked for a rose everywhere that morning, and found nothing. They called me back in a private waiting room to get my results. The nurse told me they would have the results in about 20-30 minutes. She left me alone. This was probably one of the loneliest and scariest moments I have experience in the last couple of years. And for some reason I got up and just said "So are you and Mary with me or what?" (with a real attitude I might add). The very second when I prayed that I looked to my left and on the wall was a pamphlet with a black and white rose on the cover (the ironic part is I told her I didn't care what color the rose was). This could have been nothing, but to me at that EXACT moment, it was everything. I laughed and I cried and I felt such a peace. I settle back into my chair and began to say the rosary. I was going through the sorrowful mysteries and the thought passed through my mind "I am going to live my life with a death sentence. I know I am going to die at any time" Then it occurred to me that this is how Christ lived His life. He knew His destiny. Right then the nurse walked in. She closed the door and told me the results were negative. The funny part is, that I was already at such peace, there wasn't a huge relief. Don't get me wrong I was happy, but I knew I wasn't alone.
For most this may seem like nothing, but for me it was everything. I took the pamphlet and cut out the rose. When I question the Saints intercession in our life I can pull that out and remember an exact time when they helped me. Also, as I have been reading the Story of a Soul, it has given me hope. That even this broken vessel can be used by God. The little way... so simple so beautiful. That I don't have to be great, in fact I have to become little so God can be everything. God's grace is so unlimited.
I've had other crazy stories with her, but I will spare you the details. My friend calls it Saint Stalkers. I don't think we find our patron Saints... they find us.
God bless,
Esther
Last edited on Thu Oct 26th, 2006 01:09 am by Esther
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Talithacumi
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 267 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2006 01:14 am |
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cajunrick wrote: ...Do I believe in the superstition that burying a statue of St. Joseph can help you sell your house? Absolutely not.
Does she believe? What do you think? Rick,
I have a hard time with this one. I tend to think it's pure superstition and actually kind of dangerous to the Catholic "cause" (for lack of a better word). Case in point: On AOL recently, they actually had an article about this very subject. It told of numerous accounts of people selling their homes via St. Joseph statues. Usually, at the end of these AOL articles, there is a place where one can "Post your thoughts". I checked through some of them and there was so much anti-Catholicism. The article just fueled it. So many people wrote in and said things like, " yeah, this is just as believable as a wafer turning into Jesus' body or water turning into wine," or "yet another example of Catholic superstition" or "just another example of Catholic statue worship."
Unfortunately, the last two were hard to argue with, considering the claims of the people who sold their homes using this practice. I don't think we, as Catholics, should put so much belief in a statue buried in the back yard having the power to sell a house. I did stick up for the practice a little bit by responding that if a house sold because of the statue being buried, that it may have been the prayer that was probably invoked along with it that may have done the trick, or that, because a statue does represent someone or something, it was perhaps because of this that God allowed the person to sell their house as a reminder that saints do have the ability to intercede, and anything done by way of a saint or a sacramental can get results because of the believer's faith in saintly intercession as a sort of prayer channel to God. Even I thought my argument was a little weak, though.
I'm not sure why I have a problem with this one about burying a statue of St. Joseph in the yard... I don't have a problem with the use of other sacramentals like Green Scapulars, Candles being lit, and so forth, so why do I have a problem with this one? Maybe because it's not geared towards helping someone towards salvation... I mean, it's kind of materialistic, isn't it? Just not sure what to think of it...:?
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5347 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2006 01:45 am |
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Talithacumi wrote: cajunrick wrote: ...Do I believe in the superstition that burying a statue of St. Joseph can help you sell your house? Absolutely not.
Does she believe? What do you think? Rick,
I have a hard time with this one. I tend to think it's pure superstition and actually kind of dangerous to the Catholic "cause" (for lack of a better word).
I don't disagree at all. As I said, I do not believe it at all. I believe that once she was convinced she had buried the statue properly she became more confident, cleaned her house a little better, had a better attitude when she was approached by potential buyers, etc. But who am I to say that her prayer to St. Joseph wasn't answered by strengthening her resolve to make her house as "saleable" as possible? As we've said repeatedly, prayer doesn't change God, it changes us.
The Catholic Church says the sacramentals are powerful because they help us to pray. They change us. 20 minutes reciting the rosary doesn't change us because we're fingering beads, it changes us because we're spending 20 minutes communing with God.
She believes that the house sold because she buried the statue of St. Joseph (a carpenter and builder, and the patron of laborers) in her yard. I believe her house sold because she had the faith to believe it would, and it changed her attitude. And for a born-and-raised fundamentalist, evangelical, non-denominational, anti-Catholic Bible-thumper, that was quite a miracle in itself.
The knotted-cord rosary I carry in my pocket is worthless. But every time I put my hand in my pocket I feel it, and when I'm sitting in a waiting room I pull it out. The rosary does nothing except remind me of God's presence, and my need to pray. And that's a miracle, too.
By the way, the Church does not condone the burying of statues of St. Joseph or anyone else in anyone's yard. It is not an "approved" devotion. Unlike the "81-photocopies of the prayer to St. Jude that's never been known to fail except for the people who tried it and died anyway", it's also not forbidden or considered sinful by the Church. In fact, burial is a proper method of disposing of a broken or otherwise no longer used sacramental. So as far as the Church is concerned, it's merely a proper disposal of a sacramental you no longer need.
But for the record, I've seen "St. Joseph Kits" to sell your house even in the most virulently anti-Catholic stores. Some of them wouldn't be caught dead selling a Catholic bible, a rosary, or a holy card, but the St. Joseph Kits are over there in the corner (strangely enough, usually next to the statues of the Virgin Mary).
By the way, if you want to see what I mean by a "kit" you can find one here.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Talithacumi
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 267 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2006 02:12 am |
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cajunrick wrote: I don't disagree at all. As I said, I do not believe it at all. I believe that once she was convinced she had buried the statue properly she became more confident, cleaned her house a little better, had a better attitude when she was approached by potential buyers, etc. But who am I to say that her prayer to St. Joseph wasn't answered by strengthening her resolve to make her house as "saleable" as possible? As we've said repeatedly, prayer doesn't change God, it changes us.
Rick,
Nor do I disagree with you. I know exactly what you're saying and I agree with everything you've said. I think I mentioned that in arguing against some who were anti-Catholic, I wrote that the belief in the power of the saints is probably at least partly what helped to sell the house. It could also be partly as you said: it might have stirred up some confidence and gave some incentive towards cleaning the house better and so on...
I just meant that I have a hard time with this particular practice because I think it is superstitious, and I think that my feeling that way about it is hard to reconcile with my usual belief in the power of sacramentals. It is surely as you say: that it is not the sacramental itself that has power, but the faith of the believer. And you are right: they help us to pray and in doing so, they change us. I understand that, and was trying to allude to that a little in my last post, but I guess it didn't come through very well and you put it into better words anyway.
I guess what I was trying to say is that I feel this particular practice of burying a statue of St. Joseph is different because there is nothing really spiritual attached to it, in that the whole purpose of burying the statue is to make money, and not to bring any particular spiritual good out of it. I don't know... I'm probably not making any sense.
Btw, I have seen the St. Joseph kits. I used to run a small parish bookstore. I'd seen the kits in catalogs... Just never got them for the store for the very reason that I didn't like the idea of promoting superstition.
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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SBC2RCC
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | York, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 126 |
| First Name: | Monte | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | was Southern Baptist Minister, now Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2006 10:37 pm |
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Thanks folks for your contributions. Esther, what you told is where I was pointing, we see results, and because of faith, it means something to us. Others may be skeptical, but we remember, a quick prayer, a rosary, the request for help, and an answer.
When I was at the Shrine of the North American Martyrs in Auriesville, NY, I went to the ravine where Isaac Jogues buried Rene Goupil. I was moved thinking of this man of faith reaching out to children, and being killed for it. It lead me to a time of prayer and meditating on the opportunities we have to reach out to children in Christ's name. Rene was making the sign of the cross on a child's forehead when he was struck down.
____________________
In Christ,
Monte W
(Formerly on CHN Forum as "Pilgrim Paul"
Minima Maxima Sunt
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 01:05 am |
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Monte,
Are you married and if so, is your wife a Catholic? How did your Baptist brethren respond to your conversion to Catholicism? Do you have children and are they Catholic?
What a leap and a jump...from being a Baptist to being a Catholic. I also attended a Bible College, United Wesleyan College. That's a bit different in theology and doctrine than Baptists. However, I attended and was a member of a Baptist Church for many years. Actually, I've gone through the gamut, so to speak. Originally, I was saved in a para-church ministry that was non-denominational then turned into a cult. Next, I attended a Pilgrim Holiness Church. After that I attended a Wesleyan Church. After that, an Assemblies of God Church. After that, a Baptist Church. Now, I attend a non-denominational church. What a hodge-podge!
But it may be that some day soon I will be a member of the Universal Holy Catholic Church.
God Bless You,
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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SBC2RCC
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | York, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 126 |
| First Name: | Monte | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | was Southern Baptist Minister, now Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 09:54 pm |
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Thanks for the questions Darlene. First of all, and unfortunately, NO, my wife and children did not follow me into the Catholic Church. They are very much involved in the Baptist church that they joined after I resigned from my pastorate of the Baptist mission church where I served for almost five years. I had discussed my being drawn to become Catholic, and she said, "fine, you can become Catholic, but don't expect me to become one." And really, I accept that. My children are teenagers, almost grown, and very active, involved in mission work, evangleism, helping ministries, etc.
Also, after 26 years of marriage, my wife is finally moving out with the kids. They are going because of practical issues about school, etc. This has more to do with financial strains than my becoming Catholic. Her dissatisfaction began years before, as I was not able to provide all that she expected. Life as a minister's wife is VERY HARD, there is a good reason for priests to be unmarried.
As to Baptist BRETHREN, well, not much was said. Actually, it has been a big silence really, considering that I had friends in the area who were in the Baptist ministry, and was actually on the staff of a very large church in our county which sponsored the mission church I pastored. This other Baptist Church was our "mother-church," and payed my salary, and supervised my work. Nobody from there has EVER spoken to me about my becoming Catholic, or just,"how are you doing, is life going well for you?" This is kinda sad, as I heard from them often when I was a part of their congregation.
Frankly, I do not want the opposition of people trying to argue with my decision to become Catholic. But, it would be nice to hear from "old friends." It seems that the attitude is to act as if I no longer exist.
God has lead me this far, and there are great things ahead in my journey, of this I am confident.
Monte
____________________
In Christ,
Monte W
(Formerly on CHN Forum as "Pilgrim Paul"
Minima Maxima Sunt
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 803 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 10:22 pm |
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I would like to say that my baptist church was large therfore i got a mixed reaction from various people. but the church was more non-denominational and sort of just "bible-based" i was never sure what made us baptist besides our beliefs about baptism. anyway, a few people have taken un-kindly to my conversion, but i expected worse. many of my friends are still treating me exactly the same and inviting me to bible studies and other things and happy to see me and happy for me. i even am in a band with some of these people and sometimes we get on each others theological nerves, but often we learn from eachother and some of them like hearing my perspective. i will say, i am very upset when i think about how anti-catholic many evangelicals are and how many try to evangelize catholics, but there are also in all fairness a grwoing number of open minded people who realize we are all family in Christ. I think the world is changing in some positive ways of wanting to learn from different people and build bridges, though i fear relativism, and think it is important to search for truth beyond mere tolerance, but i see some positive signs of people getting along with catholics. in fact all of my closest friends have remained very close to me. this also may be becasue we are in our 20's and not as rigid in some things as the older generations where i more often seem to think i am disappointing people. although even then my parents are showing support (my dad may join too, and is in RCIA) and a few older people are fine with it.
anyway, i am sorry to hear about your plight monte, i am not writing this to contradict you. i know full well just how anti-catholic baptists can be, becasue at my old church there was a great mix, and a lot of our practices seemed to be based on trying to not be or look or remind anyone of anything catholic. we even did a slide show on church histroy and it started with luther after augustine! and my pastor told me that he was worried about me believing in a false gospel. so i know there are some hardships. I just wanted to eport this maybe to encourage darlene and others that we do not know how people will respond, but ultimately following our convictions counts and perhaps if we are lucky our friends and family will support us, but there is no guarantee. however, i have been fortunate.
as for saints. well, i try to avoid superstitions, but i have a fondness personally for St. Therese. Mary (obviously, though she seems to not be considered a saint as much as our Mother) Joseph, the Archangel Raphael, and St. John, and Teresa of Avila.
There are more too, but these saints seem to have stood out to me at key moments or found me, or things would happen that seemed to imply to me that they were indeed interceeding. I pray the rosary daily, and often have prayed novenas to St Therese, often getting little things i took to be showing she was listening. In fact a few times i was praying for her intercession she seemed to be turning up everywhere, and a few times in unique "flower" ways. could be coincidence, but i think it was something more.
I think the key is to put our faith, of course, in God and the prayer itself rather than the special formula like the burying of something or saying a novena or whatever. i trust these things becasue of the power of God and becasue of the prayer involved.
One thing you can take or leave is the first time i remember asking for intercession from anyone differnt than Mary was of Tersa of Avila, and the first prayer i remembered asking her for my TV got to the end of a basketball game i was watching and flipped on to the channel i was on which was EWTN and they were playing a movie about her at that time. I thought that was cool. maybe it was around the time of her feast day, but i had no way of knowing that.
anyway, The saints are our friends, I am so glad they join their prayers fwith and for us out of their great charity.
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