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NanaR
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| Joined: | Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 166 |
| First Name: | Ruth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Born JW, born-again Catholic (Tiber Swim Team 2008) |
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Posted: Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 09:58 am |
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Friends,
I read somewhere about an old cemetery that was moved. Apparently, at the time the caskets were moved, it was discovered that one of the caskets (very old) was still heavy -- indicating, I suppose, that the body had not decomposed. It was commented that this woman, who had died without any recognition, was therefore a Saint.
Does the Catholic Church teach that the bodies of Saints do not decompose? What would be the reason for this?
I know the Church teaches the resurrection of the body at the "Last Day" and the reunification of the soul with the "glorified" body.
But the concept of physical bodies not decomposing is something I had never thought about.
Help?
Ruth
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When you bend down to help someone up, that is the best exercise for your heart. -- Fr. Noe, 2007
http://nanaruthann.blogspot.com
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2072 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 03:59 pm |
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Psalm 15(16):9–10:
Therefore my heart hath been glad, and my tongue hath rejoiced: moreover, my flesh also shall rest in hope. Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [=Sheol, the abode of the dead, not the place of eternal punishment]; nor wilt thou give thy holy one to see corruption.
Note the parallelism: soul, body; soul, body. Gladness and rejoicing, hope; soul separated from the body, (dead) body separated from the soul. This is, therefore, an affirmation of the resurrection of the body. In the Church’s liturgy, it is applied to Christ, who on the third day rose from the dead incorrupt. Those who are configured to Christ (i.e., the saints, whether canonized or not) can expect to see the same. 1 Corinthians 15:43: “So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption: it shall rise in incorruption.” and again in verse 53: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption: and this mortal must put on immortality.”
However, it is important to understand that incorruption is not one of the official criteria of holiness for the process of canonization. The Church’s only criterion when it comes to determining whether a person led a holy life is the investigation of his life through documentation and sworn testimony of eyewitnesses that the person exhibited heroic virtue. In this process, each virtue is examined in turn and testimony gathered. If the Servant of God (the candidate for canonization) exhibited heroic exercise of each of the virtues, he is pronounced Venerable, and the process passes to the question of posthumous miracles, which are required for beatification and canonization as a saint. As a result, it is incorrect to say that a person whose body remains incorrupt is a saint without further ado. Certainly it may be so, but it may also be that there were physical factors involved in the lack of decay.
There is a book chronicling the phenomenon of the incorruption of over 100 bodies of saints and beati. It is The Incorruptibles, by Joan Carroll Cruz. Very interesting reading, and it explains a lot about the phenomenon.
David
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Tina in Ashburn
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| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ashburn, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 281 |
| First Name: | Tina | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Roman Catholic, Ukranian Catholic, presently practicing as Roman Latin ... |
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Posted: Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 04:05 pm |
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Almost without exception everybody, including Saints, decomposes after death. Rarely there is an exception where a body doesn't decompose. It is no proof of sanctity. However, when the life of a person is studied for demonstrated saintly behavior, an incorrupt body is taken into consideration as supporting proof. But the saintly life is first and foremost what is important. An incorrupt body is secondary.
It is never the case that an extraordinary circumstance be used on on its own merit as proof of anything. This is why curing, bearing the stigmata, floating in prayer, receiving apparitions, or anything like that is never used as proof of any kind of virtue or holy life. These things can occur without any sanctity at all, or even from malice.
The Catholic belief that Mary was assumed into heaven involves the belief that Mary was so holy that God did not allow her body any corruption. This relates to the sanctity of some saints whom God allows their holy life to be reflected in a body that doesn't corrupt.
When we are re-united with our bodies on the Last Day, whether our bodies became food of worms or our skin and skeleton are still intact, won't make a difference.
Joan Carrol Cruz book "The Incorruptibles" describing those all over the world whose bodies are incorrupt today is pretty good. When I went to Spain years ago, I saw Mary of Agreda [wrote the City of God] there in a glass case - she died a looooong time ago. I could see she had a big nose and her skin was mighty flaky. BTW often the bodies of incorrupt saints are encased in flesh-colored wax. I've viewed other saints, but I remember her the best.
Speaking of that, do I need another shower??
Last edited on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 04:07 pm by Tina in Ashburn
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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Juan
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 11:45 am |
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But the concept of physical bodies not decomposing is something I had never thought about.
The Bible says:
Psalms 15
10 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.
Acts Of Apostles 13
35 And therefore, in another place also, he saith: Thou shalt not suffer thy holy one to see corruption.
Therefore, the Church does exhume the bodies of those who are considered likely Saints to see if they have decomposed. I believe it is an indication of holiness in life if they are found thus.
http://www.overcomeproblems.com/incorruptables.htm
Sincerely,
Juan
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NanaR
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| Joined: | Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 166 |
| First Name: | Ruth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Born JW, born-again Catholic (Tiber Swim Team 2008) |
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 12:17 pm |
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Juan wrote: But the concept of physical bodies not decomposing is something I had never thought about.
The Bible says:
Psalms 15
10 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.
Acts Of Apostles 13
35 And therefore, in another place also, he saith: Thou shalt not suffer thy holy one to see corruption.
Therefore, the Church does exhume the bodies of those who are considered likely Saints to see if they have decomposed. I believe it is an indication of holiness in life if they are found thus.
http://www.overcomeproblems.com/incorruptables.htm
Sincerely,
Juan
Thank you, Juan.
I always understood the first scripture to apply to Jesus himself, although the tradition in which I was raised did not teach that Jesus took his earthly body to heaven, but that he took the value of his earthly life to heaven. Of course, they (Jehovah's Witnesses) do not believe in the Diety of Jesus either. They also have rather strange ideas about the Saints; they do not believe that anyone who died before Jesus will ever go to heaven, and they believe the number who go to heaven is limited to 144,000.
I find that Catholic doctrine makes a lot more sense both Biblically and in practice. I just have SUCH a lot to learn :-)
Ruth
____________________
When you bend down to help someone up, that is the best exercise for your heart. -- Fr. Noe, 2007
http://nanaruthann.blogspot.com
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 10:40 pm |
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NanaR wrote:I always understood the first scripture to apply to Jesus himself.
The early Church did, too, as you have seen from the scripture quotes above. But we also see from scripture that Christ’s resurrection is the paradigm of our own:
Romans 8:11:
If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you.
So the resurrection applies to us, as Christ’s spiritual brethren, the same life, the same incorruption, through the same Spirit.
David
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smh
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| Joined: | Sun May 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Merrimack, New Hampshire USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
| First Name: | Sue | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic, United Pentecostal, Independent, Church of God, Catholic (again) |
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Posted: Tue Jul 31st, 2007 11:15 am |
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Just as an aside, and maybe it's been mentioned already... the Church does not use incorruption as criteria for sainthood. If someone has been canonized, or perhaps is going through that process, then the incorruption is kind of a bonus... and the "relics" may be venerated if the church approves.
Sue
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Sue
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