 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Howard the Pilgrim
Member
| Joined: | Sun Dec 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Lamar, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 32 |
| First Name: | Howard | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | United Presbyterian, non-denom, American Baptist, non-denom, Conservative Baptist, United Methodist ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 02:14 am |
|
Hi,
I did an experiment in my Protestant Sunday School class one time and asked them to read Revelation 12. My students did not have an extensive background in the Scriptures or theology. When they finished reading it, I asked them,"Who is the woman in Revelation 12?". They all responded, "Mary". Then I asked, "Who are her offspring?". They responded, "Christians". These conclusions came from an unbiased, natural reading of the passage.
Does the Catholic Church see Revelation 12 as one of the key Scriptural texts for proving that Mary is the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of the Church or of all Christians?
Protestants generally see the woman as a symbolic representation of Israel with the crown of 12 stars.
Just wondering, because I don't seem to see the passage cited as much as I would expect in Catholic discussions of the two doctrines about Mary above.
Thanks!
Howard
|
|
|
Br_Carlo
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tyler, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 150 |
| First Name: | Br_Carlo (Vince Brach) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Episcopalian, CATHOLIC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 08:14 am |
|
Howard the Pilgrim wrote: Does the Catholic Church see Revelation 12 as one of the key Scriptural texts for proving that Mary is the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of the Church or of all Christians?
God's peace. Keep in mind that the Catholic Church is not into "proof-texting." The Church explains the Bible, because the Church wrote the Bible. It's not the other way around.
That said, the passage in Rev. 12 is certainly not inconsistent with your students' conclusions, and has been cited many times in support of Marian doctrines (cf Scott Hahn's Hail, Holy Queen). It is curious, though that the CCC does not refer to Rev 12 much, if at all, in its section on Mary and her relationship to the Church.
I have a book in my library by Thomas Merton called The Woman Clothed with the Sun, which is about (of course) Mary. However, the passage could also be referring to Israel. Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5080 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 09:07 am |
|
Howard the Pilgrim wrote: Does the Catholic Church see Revelation 12 as one of the key Scriptural texts for proving that Mary is the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of the Church or of all Christians?
Protestants generally see the woman as a symbolic representation of Israel with the crown of 12 stars.
Just wondering, because I don't seem to see the passage cited as much as I would expect in Catholic discussions of the two doctrines about Mary above.
Welcome to the forum, Howard. We're glad to have you here with us.
As Br. Carlo indicated, Catholics do not "do" proof-texting. We see all of scripture, along with the sacred Tradition and Magisterium of the Church, as affirming Mary as Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, and the Mother of all humanity. The passage in question certainly affirms that teaching.
At the same time, Protestants tend to subscribe to an "either/or" mentality, as in "this passage must mean either this or that." Catholics are more likely to accept a "both/and" meaning; this passage means both this and that. So the passage in question can certainly be taken to refer to Israel as well as to Mary.
Scripture is much too rich for passages to be confined to a single meaning, and it is impossible to understand any portion of scripture without taking into context the entire body of scripture along with the Tradition and Magisterium. So if you really want to understand Rev 12, start reading Genesis 1 and when you reach the end of Revelation, start with the Church Fathers and don't stop until you reach Pope Benedict XVI's most recent encyclical and his homilies and addresses. Then, just for a little extra "flavor" read Martin Luther's writings on Mary as well.
So as you can see, we have a much different perspective on the meanings of individual scripture passages, and we have the benefit of thousands of years of writings by some of the most brilliant people who ever lived. And it all matters.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Howard the Pilgrim
Member
| Joined: | Sun Dec 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Lamar, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 32 |
| First Name: | Howard | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | United Presbyterian, non-denom, American Baptist, non-denom, Conservative Baptist, United Methodist ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 08:45 pm |
|
Br_Carlo and CajunRick,
Thank you for your responses to my question. Good points, both of you.
Currently I am functioning as an apologist for the Catholic Church in my Protestant church, debunking myths and misunderstandings, and pointing out where Catholic doctrines are biblical (the starting point for many Protestants). Mainly because I can't stand misrepresentations of what others believe. But also because I have learned a lot about the Catholic Church in 10 years of fellowshipping with Catholics on the web and listening to EWTN and the Journey Home.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a beautiful work. The best catechism I have seen. The section on prayer is awesome!
May God bless you both.
Howard
|
|
|
Current time is 09:17 pm | |
|
|
|
|
|
