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Esther
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Kansas City, Kansas USA |
| Posts: | 152 |
| First Name: | Esther | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist to Roman Catholic 11/26/06 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2006 11:52 pm |
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I know someone has posted about this before but I couldn't remember the responses. So bare with me if you have seen this question before. I was listening to this tape on Marian devotion and it was discussing on of the apparitions. She was quoted as saying something like "Who ever dies in this shall never suffer eternal fire" and "One day, through the Rosary and Scapular I will save the world"... ok yikes! I thought I had issues with Mary before. The first quote is giving a whole new meaning to justification and sanctification (maybe I am just looking at this wrong, but it seems very black and white) and the other is putting her up with Jesus (if not taking His role) as a means of salvation.
My understanding of Mary (prior to this quote) is that her sole purpose was to bring us salvation. She was the means God used and continues to use to draw us closer to Jesus' for our salvation (the above seems to be missing that important step). She mediates on our behalf as a mother, comforts us like a mother, and remained sinless and therefore is the holiest person to ever exist. And the rosary is a meditation tool to focus on the gospels and Mary helps us in that meditation.
It has taken me a long time to come to this weak understand. But this just throws me for a loop. Am I missing something? Is there a piece to this puzzle I am missing or do I need to get a new puzzle all together?
Thank you all so much for your help!
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Br. Rich SFO
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2006 12:17 am |
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First and foremost This is a private revelation and a personal devotion. No Catholic is ever required to pray the Rosary or wear the Brown Scapular.
The Scapular is there to help remind us of our need for constant attention to our actions and thoughts. The promise is simply that when we die and we have used the Scapular to keep us on the right track we will be ready to meet God. If not we won't die with it on and that will be our sign that we did not keep our promises to God. The Scapular, the Rosary, etc. are all spiritual tools given to us by God, through Mary to aid in our journey towards Eternal Salvation.
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5457 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2006 12:37 am |
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Esther wrote: I know someone has posted about this before but I couldn't remember the responses. So bare with me if you have seen this question before. I was listening to this tape on Marian devotion and it was discussing on of the apparitions. She was quoted as saying something like "Who ever dies in this shall never suffer eternal fire" and "One day, through the Rosary and Scapular I will save the world"... ok yikes! I thought I had issues with Mary before. The first quote is giving a whole new meaning to justification and sanctification (maybe I am just looking at this wrong, but it seems very black and white) and the other is putting her up with Jesus (if not taking His role) as a means of salvation.
Esther, first of all, all Marian apparitions are private devotions and are therefore not binding on the faithful. It is not necessary that you believe that Mary appeared to anyone, nor accept anything she said unless it has been confirmed by the Magisterium of the Church through other means. In other words, you do not have to believe these statements to join the Church.
Having said that, let me also say that the theology behind Marian apparitions and devotions is rich, and add tremendously to the spiritual life of the Church and to the spiritual lives of individual Catholics. Both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI had strong devotions to Mary.
On to your specific question. The statement you quote is correct as far as it goes. There are promises associated to the wearing of both the brown and green scapulars. However, the scapulars are not magic. Along with wearing the scapular comes a commitment to a lifetime of prayer and devotion to Our Lady of Mount Carmel. It is this commitment to prayer that guarantees salvation, not the wearing of a piece of cloth. You can read about the Carmelites here. You'll note that the prayer life centers on the Liturgy of the Hours, which leans heavily on scripture. Mary is taking us to her Son who is God's Word through the Word of God, as well as reliance on the sacraments, especially the Eucharist.
The scapular itself is made up of two small, brown rectangles of cloth that are slightly irritating. It is designed to remind the wearer to live constantly in prayer. As a sacramental, it is meaningless by itself but can be useful as a focal point to prayer.
As for Mary's other promises, she promised that she would Russia to conversion once it was consecrated to her. Pope John Paul II completed the consecration in the late 80's, and the Soviet Union collapsed in 1989. Today Russia is enjoying a Christian resurgence and talks aimed at reuniting the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are well underway. Is it a coincidence that Mary's promise came true?
Other promises and predictions have come true as well. The celebrated "Third Promise of Fatima" predicted the assassination attempt against Pope John Paul II in 1981. He credited our Lady with miraculously saving his life.
So don't take single phrases out of context. Read the entire message of Our Lady at Mount Carmel and take a look at Carmelite devotions before deciding the meaning. And remember that in every case, Mary's purpose is to lead us to her Son. As she herself said, her soul "magnifies the Lord" making Jesus easier for us to reach. And that is her purpose in the economy of salvation.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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TotusTuus
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 31st, 2006 |
| Location: | Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 126 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic (thanks Mom and Dad!) |
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 01:11 am |
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Esther,
I agree that the language of that particular story is difficult and I think we have to do a little work to understand it properly. Actually, you have already provided the framework. Jesus' mediation for our salvation is unique; and yet He allows us to share in his mediation as St. Paul said, " in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church".
In the order of grace, Mary is the New Eve. In the majesty of the Father's plan, her "Yes" to the Incarnation was the "tool" of our salvation. As He chose Mary as the instrument through whom He would come to us, so He chose Mary as the instrument through whom we should go to Him.
When we speak of Mary's mediatory role in our salvation, she is but the instrument the Holy Spirit uses in sharing with us the divine life of grace. Yet it is a real role and it was God's plan (and grace) that she exercise a Maternal and intercessory role in the gathering of God's children into the kingdom.
I would recommend two Scriptural images for your consideration, the first from the protoevangelium of Genesis 3, God's word to the serpent:
"I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your seed and her seed;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel."
The second is from Revelation 12:
And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;
[2] she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery.
[3] And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads.
[4] His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, that he might devour her child when she brought it forth;
[5] she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,
[6] and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which to be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
____________________
TTM!
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