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ithrowcheese
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| Joined: | Tue Dec 19th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brisbane, Australia |
| Posts: | 1 |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catecumenate |
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Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 01:01 am |
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I am currently part of the catechumenate, and I believe wholeheartedly in all the doctrinal truths proclaimed by the Catholic Church, as Christ's body on earth. This, of course, encompasses the four Marian dogmas. This understanding has not come lightly, and has required a lot of time spent in study, discussion and thought. My problem now has nothing to do with divinely inspired Truth, but rather devotional practices.
I have immense trouble understanding what the point of Marian devotion is. I know that it is not a bad thing to ask for her intercession, in the same way that we can ask any of the saints in heaven or on earth to pray for us. And I do so. I ask Mary, St. Joseph, St. Francis de Sales, St Elizabeth of Hungary, and many others to pray for me when the need arises.
But why must we pay particular attention to Mary? Sure she is Christ's mother, but so what? He Himself said that whoever does the will of His Father in heaven is His mother, sisters and brothers. Why pray lengthy prayers and Novenas to Mary when every other saint just gets a "St. Cyprian - pray for us"? I am not attacking anyone that does so, I am just trying to understand why they do so.
My study has brought me to this quandary: I understand that praying to Mary and the saints in heaven is not bad. But I do not understand why Marian devotion is a good - much less necessary - thing.
I think the best help could be given to me if people were to tell me what they have personally gained from devoting themselves to Mary.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
God bless!
____________________
"Indeed, for any among the living there is hope; a live dog is better than a dead lion." - Ecclesiastes 9:4
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5347 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 01:22 am |
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First of all, let me welcome you to CHN. I'm looking forward to getting to know you better, and especially finding out the derivation of your user name! 
Since you asked specifically about how Marian devotions have affected others, I'll let other users respond. I just wanted to mention that there are devotions to many of the saints, especially St. Jude. Any Catholic bookstore should be able to provide you with any number of booklets, novenas, etc., to the various saints.
Devotion does concentrate on Mary because Marian devotion is the only one that is scripturally based ("all generations will call me blessed" ... "Son, behold your mother") and because under Jewish tradition, an honor paid to the mother is paid to the son. Jesus owes his Jewish identity as well as his humanity to his mother, not to the other saints.
But remember that devotion to Mary and the saints is not required. Other than the liturgical practices of feast days and mentions in the liturgy, devotions are an optional part of our faith. and no one needs to participate in them.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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JMJDevotee
Member
| Joined: | Wed Dec 20th, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 6 |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Proud to Roman Catholic!!! |
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Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 10:43 pm |
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I have a tenuous relationship at best with my folks. They just don't get the whole conversion thing.  I know my folks love me but have often felt disconnected with them and in that felt unsure of their love. I have found since I came to understand Mary and the devotion to Our Lady, that I feel that unconditional love. It comes from her. I totally believe that. In learning about her and practicing my devotion to her, I have become a better mother, wife, friend, worker, daughter, sister...all around better person.
Right now, I am learning to pray the Rosary in Latin with my DD who is 15. It is fun to do but is also bringing us closer. There are so many ways for us, on a daily basis, to see Our Mother at work. Look for her, she will show herself.
Pax Vobiscum
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AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.
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brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 803 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2006 01:41 am |
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Good question. I don't know what to say. Mary is elevated by the church above the saints. She is considered Queen of Heaven, and the church calls us not to worship her, but to give her status between that of the saints and God. Mary is also considered to have lived a sinless life, and we see her intervention at Cana as Jesus does not refuse her request. Because of these things we believe that her prayers on our behalf are most powerful. That she is closer to Jesus and knows how to address him on our behalf (not that we cant go alone or with another saint). Also she is seen as a mother to us. I think Revelation 12 helped me (woman clothed with the sun) and so did the idea that as Jesus gave Mary to John at the cross He was really sharing His mother with all of us. We share in Christs inheritance and sonship, therfore His mother is our mother. And if she was chosen to be the mother of God what a wonderful caring mother she must be!
But what really helps me is the understamding that Marian devotion really is about Jesus. It really is not her desire to compete with Him or take love from Him so much to enhance our love of and understanding of Him. She understands and loves Him so well, that we are devoted to her because of her example to us and ability to teach us to love with a more perfect love. We are devoted to the saints because there intercession is powerful, and because they teach us more about living closely and obediently. Mary was the new Eve who said yes to God, therfore who better to ask to learn from on our path to greater obedience.
In my life, I can say this is true. I feel so blessed with this relationship and do see that it is not hindering my love of Jesus but probably making it greater. There are certain saints i am devoted to and read about, but i think Mary comes back the most and seems to have many miracles attributed to her and requests granted and apparitions and whatnot. But to me, i really just see her as my Mother who has a good ability to take soem of my misguided requests and teach me how to pray and presents them to God in a more humble way.
But i also pray to God directly as well..really there is so much i could say, but i am new to this myself. sorry if i am rambling. but you wanted some input. My advice. dont worry, but maybe learn to pray the rosary and ask Mary to help you understand her role in your life and just be patient and in time you will be glad you kept giving her a chance.
brian
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Juan
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | unregister | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | unregister |
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 10:03 pm |
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I am currently part of the catechumenate, and I believe wholeheartedly in all the doctrinal truths proclaimed by the Catholic Church, as Christ's body on earth. This, of course, encompasses the four Marian dogmas.
Excellent!
This understanding has not come lightly, and has required a lot of time spent in study, discussion and thought.
And prayer right?
My problem now has nothing to do with divinely inspired Truth, but rather devotional practices.
Devotional practices, authentic devotional practices are based upon Divinely inspired Truths.
I have immense trouble understanding what the point of Marian devotion is.
These types of things are understood by prayer. It is not a matter of the mind but a matter of the heart.
I know that it is not a bad thing to ask for her intercession, in the same way that we can ask any of the saints in heaven or on earth to pray for us. And I do so. I ask Mary, St. Joseph, St. Francis de Sales, St Elizabeth of Hungary, and many others to pray for me when the need arises.
Excellent! The Scripture tells us, "blessed are those who believe because they see, more blessed those who believe and yet have not seen." We step in faith and obviously, you are stepping in faith.
But why must we pay particular attention to Mary?
Do you think Jesus paid attention to His Mother? If you think He did and He is our model, then shouldn't you also?
Sure she is Christ's mother, but so what?
I assume you have a mother. You are only an ordinary human, yet would you have your mother treated like a commoner or like a Queen?
Jesus is King. Should His mother be treated as "so what?" Or should she be treated as the Mother of the King of Kings?
He Himself said that whoever does the will of His Father in heaven is His mother, sisters and brothers.
Who united her will to the Father in such a way that He deemed her worthy to be His Son's mother?
She is His mother precisely because of her perfect union with God.
Why pray lengthy prayers and Novenas to Mary when every other saint just gets a "St. Cyprian - pray for us"?
Regardless of what Protestants tell you about "God does not respect persons". The fact is that God loves some more than others. God loves Jacob and hates Esau. And see what He said to Mary and Aaron:
Numbers 12:6 He said to them: Hear my words: if there be among you a prophet of the Lord, I will appear to him in a vision, or I will speak to him in a dream. 7 But it is not so with my servant Moses a who is most faithful in all my house: 8 For I speak to him mouth to mouth: and plainly, and not by riddles and figures doth he see the Lord. Why then were you not afraid to speak ill of my servant Moses? 9 And being angry with them he went away: 10 The cloud also that was over the tabernacle departed: and behold Mary appeared white as snow with a leprosy. And when Aaron had looked on her, and saw her all covered with leprosy,
And God won't listen to just anyone's prayers. He listened to Abraham, to Moses and to Job:
Job 42: 8 Take unto you therefore seven oxen, and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer for yourselves a holocaust: and my servant Job shall pray for you: his face I will accept, that folly be not imputed to you: for you have not spoken right things before me, as my servant Job hath.
As Scripture tells us, "the prayer of a just man is very efficacious (James 5:16)".
I am not attacking anyone that does so, I am just trying to understand why they do so.
Why we love Mary? In imitation of Christ.
Why we take her as our Mother? In obedience to Christ (John 19:27).
My study has brought me to this quandary: I understand that praying to Mary and the saints in heaven is not bad. But I do not understand why Marian devotion is a good - much less necessary - thing.
Anyone who loves Christ will love anyone whom Christ loves.
I think the best help could be given to me if people were to tell me what they have personally gained from devoting themselves to Mary.
On most forums, I am known as De Maria. I have given myself to Mary as Jesus gave Himself to her. I love Mary in imitation of Jesus and I love Jesus with Mary's heart. Being that she is His Mother, she loves Him more than any human is capable of loving Him. Being that He is Her God and Her Son, He loves her more than any human is capapble of loving her.
What has this done for me? I don't know, but I've never felt closer to God in my life.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I hope that helped.
God bless!
Amen! May God bless you with understanding,
Sincerely,
Juan
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