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susiedear
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| Joined: | Thu Oct 12th, 2006 |
| Location: | Twin Cities, Minnesota USA |
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| First Name: | Elizabeth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Pentecostal / Evangelical / Catholic! |
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Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 09:17 pm |
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Hello, everyone. I've had this nagging questions that comes to my mind whenever I hear my priest talk about the great graces that come through praying to our Blessed Mother. What might he mean by using the term "great graces?"
I don't in any way mean to sound antagonistic, but at times it sounds as though Marion devotion is the Catholic equivalent of "name it claim it" theology, a popular protestant belief that God will grant us all our wishes when we ask in faith. I know that true Marion devotion can't begin to go that direction, but when I hear my priest say prayer to Mary will yield great results, I can't help but think it sounds a lot like "name it claim it."
Please understand that since I've started this journey to the Catholic Church, my devotion to and understanding of the Blessed Mother has grown tremendously. I honestly believe that she is my mother, and I have flown to her comfort many, many times. I'm just trying to understand the term "great graces," and I appreciate any help that you can give.
Elizabeth
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But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. St. Augustine
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 10:02 pm |
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susiedear wrote: Hello, everyone. I've had this nagging questions that comes to my mind whenever I hear my priest talk about the great graces that come through praying to our Blessed Mother. What might he mean by using the term "great graces?"
I don't think his meaning would be that grace we obtain through the intercession of our Blessed Mother is any "greater" than grace obtained through other means. Using this term, all grace would have to be considered "great."
A popular song of recent years, especially in certain evangelical circles, is "Awesome God." That is a redundancy. God is not awesome because we use the term; God is awesome because God is God.
In the same way, the phrase "great graces" is a redundancy. All grace is great, and all grace comes to us from God. There is no other source of sanctifying or actual grace. Mary may pray for us to receive grace, and all grace comes to us through her in that all grace comes through Jesus who came to us through Mary, but God is still the ultimate source.
I don't in any way mean to sound antagonistic, but at times it sounds as though Marion devotion is the Catholic equivalent of "name it claim it" theology, a popular protestant belief that God will grant us all our wishes when we ask in faith. I know that true Marion devotion can't begin to go that direction, but when I hear my priest say prayer to Mary will yield great results, I can't help but think it sounds a lot like "name it claim it."
Not at all. Mary can't do anything for us. She can only request of her Son and his Father. Still, since Mary sits as Queen of Heaven and Earth, her requests would bear great weight, and it would be very hard for a perfectly loving Son to tell her "no." And yet we know that God does indeed tell us no. God answers all prayers, but the answer is not always "yes."
I'm just trying to understand the term "great graces," and I appreciate any help that you can give.
This is not a phrase the Church would use in any official capacity, since all grace is great. Why don't you ask him what he meant?
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 10:34 pm |
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First, Elizabeth, let’s look at what grace is.
You have your Catechism. The word “grace” is endemic in this work. From beginning to end, it talks about divine grace. But there is a special section on grace, beginning at §1996, that tells us in more detail what it is.
It should be clear from this that all grace is “divine grace” and comes from God. But something not mentioned is that he sends that grace quite often through persons, circumstances and other secondary means. In particular, he uses the saints and angels and the vehicles of grace to men.
These are not just the saints in heaven. There are lots of saints right here on earth — saints in the making, we could call them. (There had better be saints like this in every age, or the world would collapse around us because of its sins!) They pass the grace along just by being the dwelling places of God on earth (John 14:23). You have been told that the sacraments impart grace to the recipient. People full of God do the same just by existing and interacting with others in the world, for they are temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19).
Now because you are aware that St. Mary, mother of our Lord, is the greatest of all saints, it should be easy to see why your pastor speaks of her role in bringing divine grace into our lives. The Catechism speaks of different kinds of grace which come to us in different ways and have different purposes. This shows us the idea of “graces” as opposed to “grace.”
All grace is “great,” for it is powerful and it is of God. So if you receive a variety of graces for different purposes, it is quite proper to speak of “great graces.” I agree that the terminology can seem a little odd to a person coming from a non-Catholic background, and in a sense you are right, it is sort of a “commodity” way of speaking. But as you can see, it is nonetheless theologically acceptable. And that is why your pastor speaks in this manner.
David
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susiedear
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| Joined: | Thu Oct 12th, 2006 |
| Location: | Twin Cities, Minnesota USA |
| Posts: | 186 |
| First Name: | Elizabeth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Pentecostal / Evangelical / Catholic! |
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Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 09:34 pm |
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Dear David and Rick, I can't thank you enough for your thoughtful replies -- you both helped me a lot. To be honest, I feel kind of silly asking my priest my original question because our parish is huge, our pastor is extremely busy, and I hate taking more of his time. That's why I wrote my question here.
I have a great story of something that happened that confirms how powerful Mary's intercession is for us. I am an unemployed English teacher, making a career change after 20 years in the newspaper business. When I went back to school for my teaching license, I was assured that I would have no problem getting a job. Wrong. This is my second year of teaching as a substitute and I was beginning to lose hope of ever finding a regular job.
On Jan. 1, I accepted my pastor's challenge to ask to be surprised. I actually came home from Mass that day a little annoyed because it feels as though all I've been doing is asking for direction and confirmation. Well, this time my prayers were answered in full. I was invited to interview for a teaching position at a school where I had never applied, had never been a substitute, and didn't even know existed. The fact that the interview happened is surprise enough, but today I learned that they want to hire me. Thanks be to God! Thanks be to our Blessed Mother! I must have been her intercession that opened this door.
Yes, my pastor's term "great graces" did confuse me. The two of you have brought me clarity and for that I am thankful.
Elizabeth
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But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. St. Augustine
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Juan
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 12:45 am |
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Hello, everyone. I've had this nagging questions that comes to my mind whenever I hear my priest talk about the great graces that come through praying to our Blessed Mother. What might he mean by using the term "great graces?" ....
I think he means:
James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
In other words, because of God's great love for Mary, He will listen to her before He listens to others. There are many examples of this in Scripture:
Genesis 20
6And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her. 7Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.
Numbers 12
5And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.
6And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
7My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
8With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
Job 42
7And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
8Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
9So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.
10And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
So, just as great graces proceed from the prayers of certain Saints. Great graces proceed from the prayers on our behalf by the Mother of God. But the source of these graces is always God.
Sincerely,
Juan
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 01:16 am |
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susiedear wrote: To be honest, I feel kind of silly asking my priest my original question because our parish is huge, our pastor is extremely busy, and I hate taking more of his time. That's why I wrote my question here.
There is no such thing as a silly question here. Any question, sincerely asked, is welcomed here. Feel free to post any questions you might wish to ask here, not because you're afraid to take up your pastor's time, but because your questions might articulate the thoughts and feelings of others who can be helped by the answers. So thank you for asking.
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mrbill
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| Joined: | Wed Dec 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Deltona, Florida USA |
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 01:46 am |
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Hey Elizabeth- God does give us "great graces" through the intercession of our Blessed Mother.
A while back I ran across a link on the forum to a video called "Why am I Catholic". It's a great video, the only problem is that it chokes me up every time I watch it. It is not available at the original link, but I found it on You Tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0nSjxDKJEo&NR Near the end, it shows the names and pictures of different Saints. I recognized Saint Maximilian Kolbe, I thought I had heard about him being killed in a Nazi concentration camp, but I wasn't sure. So I looked him up at http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintm01.htm After reading about his life and the example he left for all of us, I have no doubt that through Mary's intercession, God gave him the strength and grace to do what he did.
I'm familiar with the "name it claim it" theology. But Jesus didn't call us all to be rich, comfortable, and have all the 'stuff' we desire. He calls us to do what he told the rich young man to do- to "pick up our cross and follow him". He gives us the grace we need to do this, and I'm sure if you asked Father Kolbe near the end of his life at Auschwitz he would have told you that "He was, among all men, most richly blessed".
This is one of the things I love about the Catholic Church. We have such great examples of how to live our lives. Jesus set the perfect example for us, but its nice to be able to find modern day examples of people doing this, instead of telling us how to get rich or how to pray and end up with a mansion and Rolls Royce like they have. Hope this helps and I hope I got the links right.
God Bless, Bill
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susiedear
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| Joined: | Thu Oct 12th, 2006 |
| Location: | Twin Cities, Minnesota USA |
| Posts: | 186 |
| First Name: | Elizabeth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Pentecostal / Evangelical / Catholic! |
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Posted: Sun Jan 14th, 2007 03:39 pm |
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I love this forum, for the sincere and helpful thoughts that people share. You are all so kind. Thank you.
Elizabeth
____________________
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. St. Augustine
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