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Darlene
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 877 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 05:27 pm |
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Hello Again,
The most interesting thing happened yesterday and somehow I perceive it is from the Lord to open my husband's mind. Both my husband and I have been growing very close to the retired pastor in our church. He was pastor at our church many years ago and now attends as a member. Only on certain occasions, such as when the pastor is away, does he preach. The other day my husband was visiting with him and discovered that this retired pastor is just as frustrated and discouraged as we are about what is going on in our church - from the preaching of the sermons, to no accountability on the part of the pastor. And many things in between.
Yesterday, my husband was speaking to him on the phone, and he told me to say "helllo" to this retired pastor. Of course, I seldom just say "hello" alone, and we became involved in a conversation. In the course of this conversation, he mentioned to me that he had baptized the children of the owners of a well-known restaurant in our area. I asked him if he had ever baptized young children or babies. He asked me, "How young do you mean?" I said "Under one year of age. You know pastor, little babies." He said, "Yes. I have baptized little babies, children, and adults." (I couldn't believe what I was hearing because baby baptism is shunned in our church and the baptismal font has been put somewhere out of the sight of everyone.) He mentioned to me that once a little girl of 3 yrs. old had been watching him baptize her sibling and asked him if he could baptize her again. He said, "I did it because she wanted it so badly, even though I had already baptized her previously. And you should have seen the look in her eyes after I baptized her. She was so happy." Well, blow me timbers, here is a pastor, sitting right in the pew in front of us every Sunday, that used to baptize babies and children in this same church! I couldn't believe it.
Then I said to this retired pastor, "Since I have been attending __________ (name not revealed to protect the guilty, ha ha), I have never heard the pastor once suggest for those who have accepted Christ to be baptized." (This just hit me the other day - not one invitation to Baptism in the 5 years that I have attended this church. Now perhaps there was on those days that I didn't attend church. But I have never heard it mentioned.) I asked, "How have people been baptized in our church since we don't have a baptismal?" He said that when he was pastor, he used to baptize by sprinkling. Wow! Blow me timbers again. And here I've always been told that immersion is the only right way of doing it. And right here in my midst, in the church that I am attending is the former pastor who used to baptize by sprinkling. I couldn't believe it.
This truly amazed me. Then it occurred to me that my church is on a course of getting further and further away from orthodoxy. By that I mean, that less and less does it hold to the beliefs that it was founded on which came from Methodism.
Here are some changes that I have noticed:
1. There used to be altar servers that were boys. They went up to the front and lit the candles and assisted the pastor in some other duties. We no longer have them.
2. We used to take Holy Communion by going up to the front and being served by the elders. This was the Methodist way of doing it. Just recently, that was changed and now we take it in our seats.
3. There used to be baby baptism and baptism by sprinkling. Now I never even hear an invitation to be baptized from the pulpit.
4. We used to say The Lord's Prayer every Sunday. Now we say it every so often but not regularly.
5. There used to be a prayer meeting every week at church when the retired pastor was pastoring. Now there is no prayer meeting, it has been done away with.
I wonder what other changes there have been that I don't know about.
We will be having this retired pastor over our house for dinner next Friday and I am looking forward to it! For one thing, my husband deeply respects him and his love for our Lord Jesus. I can tell that he is from the "old school" and yet he believes that for now, the Lord has called him to remain at our church.
Love in Christ,
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 07:27 pm |
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Darlene wrote: I wonder what other changes there have been that I don't know about.
Very interesting, Darlene, and a good example of how fluid doctrine can be within Protestant and non-denominational churches.
I will be interested in hearing your retired pastor's interpretation. Sometimes people continue going to the same church from force of habit. Maybe he will be open to crossing the Tiber as well!
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Darlene
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 877 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 08:13 pm |
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Rick,
I have a sense that it isn't "force of habit" that he is still attending this church. He among others, helped in the building of this church 23 years ago. He was very involved in the fund raising process and the design of the church building as well. I'm wondering if perhaps he is there to keep a "check" on the current pastor. Who knows. I intend to ask him when he visits.
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 08:45 pm |
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Darlene wrote: We will be having this retired pastor over our house for dinner next Friday and I am looking forward to it! For one thing, my husband deeply respects him and his love for our Lord Jesus. I can tell that he is from the "old school" and yet he believes that for now, the Lord has called him to remain at our church.
How did the dinner go?
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Darlene
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 877 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 05:27 pm |
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cajunrick wrote: Darlene wrote: We will be having this retired pastor over our house for dinner next Friday and I am looking forward to it! For one thing, my husband deeply respects him and his love for our Lord Jesus. I can tell that he is from the "old school" and yet he believes that for now, the Lord has called him to remain at our church.
How did the dinner go?
Hello Rick,
I meant to talk about this but got side-tracked with other things. Thanks for asking.
Actually, I was surprised to learn that Pastor F (which is what I'll call him here) was baptized a Catholic and raised as one till he was a teenager. He told a very interesting story about what happened when he was a teenager regarding his faith. It went like this.
When he was a teen, his family stopped going to the Catholic Church altogether. He never quite knew why. Years later, when he asked his father about it, his father gave him an explanation. Now before I go into it, I want to say that this was just the explanation his father gave to him, so I cannot attest to its truthfulness and neither could Pastor F.
One day the priest came over to Pastor F's house. Pastor F did not witness this event, but was told about it later in life. The priest spoke with Pastor F's father asking that he tithe a certain amount of money to the church in order to keep his membership. Pastor F's family lived in the lower income bracket and so his father said he could not afford to give what the priest was asking. The priest replied with something to the effect that it was incumbant upon them to tithe this amount or certain priveleges would be taken from them. Pastor F's father responded by saying, "Do you see that door knob? I want you to turn it, leave my house, and never come back." And so it was that Pastor F's family left the Catholic Church for good.
A few years later, while Pastor F was in Asia during the War, he witnessed the devotion and zeal of some Christians (they walked several miles just to attend church) and was convicted of his lukewarmness. He rededicated his life to Jesus at that point. When he came back to the U.S. after the War, he started attending a Church of the Brethren. Eventually, he was asked to teach Sunday school and had such success, that the elders and the Bishop of that denomination said he had what it took to be a pastor. So he went to seminary, got his degree in Theology and was assigned a pastorate.
I was surprised that Pastor F in no way spoke against the Catholic Church. In fact, the reason the subject of the Catholic Church came up was because of something I said. He was talking about his involvement with other denominations and said that he had even conducted an Episcopalian service one time. He also preached at funerals of people from different denominations. He actually said that a priest, whom he had known from his hometown, asked him to help out with a funeral one time. I don't know if that was proper but I do believe him.
So, the long and short of it is that Pastor F seems to be ecumenical and yet, he does believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. He is a very interesting man. I was glad that he didn't show any bitterness or resentment toward the Catholic faith.
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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