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Darlene
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| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
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| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 04:40 pm |
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Hello CHN Family,
Yesterday, I attended Eucharistic Adoration at a parish near to the parish where I have been attending on a regular basis. This parish has Adoration from 12:00 noon - 6:30 p.m. on Tuesdays through Fridays. The parish I have been attending regularly does not have it, although this past Sunday there was a Liturgy in the evening (which I attended) in which the Communion host was exposed. BTW, what is the receptical that displays the Communion host called? And is it called a "communion host?" (those are my words.)
I arrived at the church for Adoration a few minutes before 5 p.m. and left at 6:30. Around 5:30 p.m., two of the parishioners in front of me left, and I was the only one in the church. I stayed till 6:30 p.m. and during that time, I was the only one there. I felt awkward, and almost as if it were wrong or improper to leave at 6:30 and leave the Communion host alone. Yet, I needed to get home and so I signed the book for those who are present at Adoration. Was it right that the Communion host was allowed to be left unattended for that time? Afterall, had I not been there (and I was not scheduled to be there) the Communion host would have been left unaccompanied for at least an hour. Should I have left without trying to find someone to let them know that no one was going to be in the church after I left? This is all so new to me and I don't know the logistics of how things should be.
Another question. A few months ago, I was talking with a parishioner and asked her if the parish (the one I have been attending) has Adoration. She said "no." She said the reason our parish does not have Adoration is that the main priest, the one in charge, (not the one who has been so helpful to me), told her he does not believe in Eucharistic Adoration. Why would he say such a thing (if indeed that is true) and if so, does he as a priest, have the freedom and right not believe in Eucharistic Adoration? In other words, is Eucharistic Adoration one of those things that is up to every believer's conscience as to whether they accept or reject it? Specifically, this particular parishioner said she approached this priest about having Adoration in our parish, and she said that he told her to give a good reason as to why she wanted it. None-the-less, her approaching did nothing to change things and we still don't have Adoration in the parish I have been attending.
I know these are a lot of questions, but learning about the Catholic faith takes time and I am realizing how much I still don't know. Protestantism can be learned rather quickly in comparison. 
I welcome all your comments.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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AggieCatholic
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| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
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| First Name: | Lance | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | United Methodist to Roman Catholic (Anglican Use) |
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 06:07 pm |
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Since I don't yet know how to use the quote feature I will try to answer your questions in order.
The hardware you saw holding the host is called a monstrance, from Latin meaning to show. The glass container containing the host is called the oculus. In most cases, these two parts are separate. Once adoration has ended the oculus, with the host still inside, is placed in a ciborium and that is placed inside the tabernacle.
It was not prudent to leave the Blessed Sacrament alone. Most parishes have a time sheet with volunteers. Sometimes, people just don't show up. We never leave it alone for two reasons. One, it's the Blessed Sacrament and should be treated as a holy presence. And two, the reason it has to be guarded is because there have been times when protestants will try to steal the host in an effort to stop us from worshiping idols. Simply telling the priest or someone within the parish will prompt action.
As far as why a particular parish wouldn't have Eucharistic Adoration, a lot of it has to do with getting enough volunteers and interest to have it in the first place. However, I will not speculate on the motives of an ordained priest.
Eucharistic Adoration is a private devotion, much like the Rosary. We, as Catholics, believe in the true and real presence of Christ's Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Blessed Sacrament. Personally, I get a great deal out of having a Eucharistic Holy Hour. It gives me a great opportunity for prayer and reflection and being there puts me in the physical presence of Christ. The tradition of Eucharistic Adoration came about in the Middle Ages when it was nearly impossible for the average person to receive the Eucharist regularly. This was a way for the faithful to at least be in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament.
While still in college I had the opportunity to volunteer as one of the deposition adorers. Myself and another student would say a prayer of benediction and one of us would remove the oculus from the monstrance and carry it to the tabernacle, led by the other carrying a candle. It was around 10:00 at night and I enjoyed the peace and stillness of walking through a large church lit by candlelight holding the Blessed Sacrament.
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What part of, "Hoc est enim Corpus meum" don't you understand?
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 11:11 pm |
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Darlene wrote:Is Eucharistic Adoration one of those things that is up to every believer's conscience as to whether they accept or reject it?
No, the Blessed Sacrament is to be adored in every case. This is de fide.
I think what the priest meant was not that he doesn’t believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the sacrament, but that he doesn’t think such a devotion would be successful or beneficial in his parish. (I can’t imagine how a priest, whose life is so closely linked to the Incarnation and to the presence of Christ in the Sacrament, could think thus!) Also, unless someone else were in charge of the roster of adorers and substitutes and the exposition and reposition of the host, it would be impractical to manage because he is far too busy to fit it into his schedule.
I am also aware that Eastern Christians (Orthodox and Catholic alike) have never developed a tradition of devotions to the Blessed Sacrament outside of the Divine Liturgy (Mass). This is ostensibly because they link the sacrament so closely to the liturgy that they prefer not to dissociate the two in practice. The Western practice dates from the 9th century, and it was not until the 11th that it began to be widespread.
By the way, I am a long-time adorer myself. I have always, even as a child, had a reverence for Jesus as my Lord, and my time at adoration is the summit of that devotion.
Lance has ably answered your other questions.
David
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brian
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 11:42 pm |
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One thing they could tell the priest I have heard as a reason to have it is that some would link Eucharistic adoration to an increase in religious vocations. Or so I have seen it stated/claimed.
Also, what I learned about why the Eastern Catholics do not have it is because they think that the eucharist is sort of present with us in other ways, and see God as also present in unique ways through icons and other things. Not that they at all think it is the same thing as the Eucharist with Jesus truly present. Actually, I was not sure I understood the answer about it, but another reason was that the bread is not the same as the West uses. Which is to say it is leavened, if ours in unleavened, or unleavened if ours is leavened....i forget which it is. But it would be harder for them to expose it in the same ways that the West do in Monstrances and such. So it is logistically more difficult.
So it is not a theological problem to have the bread leavened or unleavened? I thought the Latin Rite was very strong minded about how it must be, but they do allow the East to do it differently.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 12:15 am |
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brian wrote:So it is not a theological problem to have the bread leavened or unleavened?
Bread is bread. It’s a matter of rite and discipline, not doctrine, what form it takes.
Your take on the logistical difficulty of Eucharistic Adoration when the bread is leavened, as in the Eastern rites, is interesting, but I do not see how it could be the definitive reason why it is not the custom in the East when there are deeper and more telling differences.
Nor do I see any problem with the idea of Christ being present in different ways. East and West are in perfect doctrinal agreement on this point, so how could it provoke such a difference in traditions?
Just as the schism was caused mostly by isolation of the different traditions and human foibles on both sides, so I believe that the same isolation is responsible for the difference in devotions, whether they are Eucharistic Adoration or the Rosary or other forms we are familiar with in the West, or the distinctive customs of the East.
But these are my opinions. You and everyone else are free to think differently.
David
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brian
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 12:48 am |
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| Well some good news is that the woman who answered my questions about adoration in the East said she regularly attends other parishes adoration chapels and was wearing a Byzantine cross and a Miraculous medal together which is a Western tradition. And she said many regular attenders there are actually Roman Catholic officially. So maybe it is time for the isolation to stop and both lungs to breathe together.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 01:19 am |
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Maybe it is time for the isolation to stop and both lungs to breathe together.
This has been our late Holy Father’s wish. On the other hand, he has also stated that it would not be in anyone’s interest to allow the dilution of the different traditions by their commingling. In fact, it was he who insisted that Eastern Catholics purify their traditional worship by removing from it the traces of Western customs they had accumulated. He did the same with their respective code of canon law. So it should be clear that he had in mind something other than an eclectic approach to personal spirituality. His stated purpose was mutual understanding and acceptance, not sameness of practice.
David
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brian
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 12:33 pm |
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Interesting. So does that mean you would be against the East developing adoration or the Rosary in practice? I thinkmy point was that both sides need to learn and appreciate what theycan of the other devotions and feel free to practice them. So for someone Eastern maybe to learn the Rosary, bwhile maintaining a uniquely Eastern approach to liturgy.
you said: Bread is bread. It’s a matter of rite and discipline, not doctrine, what form it takes.
As far as your comment that it is only bread, and why should it be a matter of doctrine...this vconfuses me, because the church seems so specific about even this. For instance, IT MUST have gluten, or something like that...if one is allergic to wheat, they can make a low wheat bread for that person, but it still MUST have some...now if this is the case, then what of your comment that it does not seem to matter what the bread is on a theological level?
The thing that I saw as confusing, was that they allowed for the East to supposedly keep all their traditions as part of the deal when they allowed them to unite to the Western churches. This included married priests. Then they went back on that and are limiting and puting some restraints on the amount of priests who can be married. As much as I do not think priests should be married, I think that this may have set back dialogue between the orthodox a little, because the west has not completely held up to their part of the bargain.
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JillD
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| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
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| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 12:38 pm |
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Yes, the leavened bread thing confuses me. At Passover, as you know, the family spends incredible effort to remove all leaven from the home as, in this holiday, leaven is a type for sin. The Passover bread MUST be unleavened. So surely the bread Jesus used at the Last Supper was unleavened, pure and without sin just as He is. Why do the Orthodox use leavened bread??
Jill
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 02:16 pm |
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JillD wrote: Yes, the leavened bread thing confuses me. At Passover, as you know, the family spends incredible effort to remove all leaven from the home as, in this holiday, leaven is a type for sin. The Passover bread MUST be unleavened. So surely the bread Jesus used at the Last Supper was unleavened, pure and without sin just as He is. Why do the Orthodox use leavened bread??
In the early days of the Church there were two type of Christians: Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians.
Jewish Christians attended temple services and worshipped at their synagogue on the Sabbath, and shared Eucharist on the Lord's Day, while Gentile Christians attended only the Lord's Supper.
The Council of Jerusalem decided that Gentile Christians were not bound by Jewish law. This included the use of unleavened bread.
The Roman Church was founded by Peter and Paul, who were both Jewish Christians, and so it follows more closely the Jewish traditions (purification of the fingers, for example). Other Churches automously developed different traditions.
One of the reasons the tradition of Eucharistic Adoration never developed in the East is that their priests are more likely to be part-time, to have families and other jobs. Their vesting ceremonies take hours, so the Divine Liturgy is pretty much a half-day commitment for the priest. There is no daily liturgy in the Eastern Churches; Divine Liturgy is celebrated only on Sunday and holy days. In many of the Eastern Churches, the Eucharist is distributed as bread and wine mixed together, which makes it much more difficult to reserve and to display. Any remaining Eucharist is consumed by the priest and deacon; any remaining bread (without the wine) is distributed at the end of the service as what's called blessed bread (NOT the Body of Christ). Many people bring it home.
In contrast, the Eastern Churches have a much stronger devotion to other liturgies such as community prayer, with services comparable to Vespers being practiced regularly, and special Lenten liturgies such as the Liturgy of the Pre-Sanctified (the equivalent of our communion services). Also, the Eastern Churches tend to have a longer Lent and a fast that is much more strict.
Eastern Churches in western countries have adopted some of the devotions of their western counterparts. When I attended a Divine Liturgy in a Byzantine Catholic church, I was surprised to find the recitation of the Rosary before the service began. The Deacon told me that most of the members of the parish had attended Roman Catholic churches before that parish was established, so there were many western practices in place. The church had kneelers and stations of the cross, too, which are normally not present in Eastern churches.
Eastern Churches were supressed in the west (especially in the U.S.) for so long that it is taking them time to return to their authentic traditions. But retention of some western practices, such as the Rosary, is likely to remain. After all, if it's good, why discard it?Last edited on Thu Mar 8th, 2007 02:21 pm by CajunRick
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Esther
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 08:11 pm |
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AggieCatholic wrote: It was not prudent to leave the Blessed Sacrament alone. Most parishes have a time sheet with volunteers. Sometimes, people just don't show up. We never leave it alone for two reasons. One, it's the Blessed Sacrament and should be treated as a holy presence. And two, the reason it has to be guarded is because there have been times when protestants will try to steal the host in an effort to stop us from worshiping idols. Simply telling the priest or someone within the parish will prompt action.
I am blessed to live close to several adoration chapels. One of my favorites in consistently empty. They have a sign up sheet, but lack up people to sign up. When this is the case there is a cloth cover put over the monstrance. I mentioned this to the priest and he said it was no big deal... should I take further action on this? Are poor priest are so over worked as it is, I do not want to make their lives more difficult, but I certainly want to make sure that our Lord receives His rightful adoration... any thoughts?
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 08:42 pm |
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Esther wrote: AggieCatholic wrote: It was not prudent to leave the Blessed Sacrament alone. Most parishes have a time sheet with volunteers. Sometimes, people just don't show up. We never leave it alone for two reasons. One, it's the Blessed Sacrament and should be treated as a holy presence. And two, the reason it has to be guarded is because there have been times when protestants will try to steal the host in an effort to stop us from worshiping idols. Simply telling the priest or someone within the parish will prompt action.
I am blessed to live close to several adoration chapels. One of my favorites in consistently empty. They have a sign up sheet, but lack up people to sign up. When this is the case there is a cloth cover put over the monstrance. I mentioned this to the priest and he said it was no big deal... should I take further action on this? Are poor priest are so over worked as it is, I do not want to make their lives more difficult, but I certainly want to make sure that our Lord receives His rightful adoration... any thoughts?
Anti-Catholic activity in your area is a big factor in how a parish will choose to protect the Eucharist. Many parishes with perpetual adoration chapels will have security cameras and alarms. I know of one parish where the chapel was monitored by camera inside the office, and a doorbell type alarm would ring whenever the door opened. The secretary would look up and see how the person entered. If they genuflect and take a seat or kneel, there's a good chance they are there for adoration and no nefarious purpose. The activity was videotaped as well. The chapel in this parish was only open during business hours and at designated times in the evening when it could be manned.
So don't assume there are no precautions, but if you're concerned, you should discuss it with your priest. The Vatican has issued some guidelines, but the direction of the bishop is also a controlling factor. Your pastor will be aware of your diocesan guidelines. Don't be afraid to ask what you should do if you leave and there is no one else present. After all, if you don't ask, how can you know?
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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