 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 810 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 11:53 pm |
|
I met someone who preffereed going to Tridentine masses. She claimed that there was a big problem with the nova sorto (sp?) masses she was seeing. This problem was that the words of consecration the priests have been saying 'for all' instead of 'for many' which it is supposed to be, because the sacrifice is only valid for as many as accept it, not for all people everywhere. She claimed that the pope was even trying to correct people who were doing this. I listend at mass today and the priest did say 'for all' but it seems like they just read these texts from a book. So my questions are, is it currently right now 'for all'? If it is might it change back? If it is supposed to be said 'for many' would this in any way invalidate the mass? Is this just one of those things that we will revise but for now it is what it is?
Thanks,
Brian
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5353 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 12:56 am |
|
brian wrote: Is this just one of those things that we will revise but for now it is what it is?
The English version of the liturgy was translated somewhat hastily in the 70's, and it is not very faithful to the Latin. It was intended to be temporary. A new translation is currently in process and should be released "soon".
The revision is a give-and-take process between the Vatican and the bishops' conferences of the English-speaking countries. The Vatican sends a translation to the bishops' conferences; they submit revisions; if the Vatican finds them acceptable, it sends them to all the conferences; they respond; the Vatican sends the consensus out again; etc., etc. This is necessary because words have different meanings in different countries. British English is not exactly the same as American English as Canadian English as Bermudan English as Aruban English as Australian English as New Zelander English. If a single translation is to be produced, it must be acceptable in all dialects.
(In Church terms, "soon" could be anywhere from months to years to decades.)
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
DrDave
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 228 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 01:07 am |
|
In terms of the validity of the sacrament if the priest said the words of consecration(This is my body vs. This is not really my body it's just as symbol), had valid matter (unleavened bread & grape wine without additives), and meant to do what he's supposed to be doing (basically did not make a statement that he intended to offer an invalid mass), then the sacrifice of the mass was valid.
Breaking any of the hundreds of other rules for saying a mass would make it illicit (illegal according to church law), but would not invalidate the sacrament.
Hope this reassures you
Regards Dave
|
|
|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 810 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 10:16 am |
|
| thanks but does anyone know specifically about the statement I am referring to and how significant it is or is not. Basically want to know that if it is maybe wrong it might be changed, but that in the meantime it is what it is and priests are simply obeying what is written for them to use.
|
|
|
Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 731 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 10:56 am |
|
The priests who say "for all" are following the Mass correctly. The priests who say "for many" while doing the old style rite in Latin are also doing their rite correctly. There is a big controversy about this among the anti-Vatican II people and I wouldn't worry about it. As has been said, all will be sorted out eventually, in months, years, or centuries!
You can easily find very hot-headed web sites about this. I would ignore it and just concentrate of working for the poor, etc. like we are supposed to.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5353 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 12:39 pm |
|
brian wrote: thanks but does anyone know specifically about the statement I am referring to and how significant it is or is not. Basically want to know that if it is maybe wrong it might be changed, but that in the meantime it is what it is and priests are simply obeying what is written for them to use.
The currently approved liturgical text reads "for all". The more proper translation would be "for many". Neither would invalidate the mass. In the United States, "for all" is the current correct phrase in the liturgy of Pope Paul VI (the so-called "Novus Ordo"). When the new translation is complete, it will read "for many," and then that will be the correct phrase, but it will not invalidate the mass if the priest slips and says "for all".
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 810 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 02:52 pm |
|
| thanks
|
|
|
Current time is 09:17 pm | |
|
|
|
|
|
