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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Wed Dec 12th, 2007 02:15 pm |
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"Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12 A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; but since we are judged by (the) Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
Therefore, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that your meetings may not result in judgment."
What exactly does examine yourself mean here? Is it linked to the thought of discerning the body? Is body a reference to Jesus' body or the church or both. I want to say it is the church or both because he seems to be complaining about people not waiting for eeryone to get their fill, and it seems to be more about when it was an agape feast. So, I see three thoughts that are being warned about. Not examining yourself, not examining the body. Making sure everyone has enough. Is it to eat without discerning the body that brings judgement, or to eat without discerning the body? How should examining oneself take place? Is this built into the liturgy? Sometimes it seems that there is not time to examine yourself unless you do so befroe the liturgy? But there is nohing in this context to help me understand what you are examining? Your sinfullness? The fact that you believe that the bread and wine are sacred and changed? What lessons are there to take from this and how does one go about satisfying the suggestions?
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Annie
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| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Dec 12th, 2007 03:09 pm |
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| The self-examination takes place before the Mass. There is insufficient time to do this during the Mass.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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Posted: Wed Dec 12th, 2007 03:10 pm |
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What exactly does examine yourself mean here?
In context, this means to make an examination of conscience. Yes, it is linked to the idea of “discerning the body,” because without that awareness, there is no reason for examining one’s conscience.
The meaning of “body”? The obvious significance is the Eucharist, which is literally the body of Christ. If you choose to see it as also pointing to the Church, as the mystical body of Christ, I see no reason to deny it.
Regarding the agape feast: My understanding has always been that the agape itself was apart from the Eucharist, just as the Last Supper was finished (“after they had eaten”) when Jesus “took bread, gave thanks, and said…” etc.
How should examining oneself take place?
There are two ways, depending on what is needed. A person in the state of mortal sin needs to receive the sacrament of penance before receiving the Eucharist. With that in mind, a remote examination of conscience is necessary. This can cover only the question of mortal sin.
Then during the Mass we have the second way, the penitential rite, which is geared to the forgiveness of venial sins, in addition to general repentance of the sins of one’s entire life.
As you can see, the whole process is contained in the Church’s liturgy (that is, the celebration of the sacraments). In this way, it should be evident that the Church’s tradition is a necessary part of our understanding of how biblical concepts work out in practice, for this tradition is in fact that “working out in practice” which is both effective and educational. In this sense, it works in just the same way as Jewish tradition regarding the ancient feasts of the Old Covenant. In the Law, it is specifically stated that, through these sacred actions such as the Passover, the religion is passed on intact and efficaciously. Its educative aspect is indicated by the passages which posit a man’s children asking what the significance of the observance is, and the father explaining.
For this reason, I think it is significant that St. Paul states, “If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home.” Physical necessities are not to be confused with spiritual necessities, “so that your meetings may not result in judgment.”
David
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 746 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 12:52 am |
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I also thought the same thing about the agape feast, howeve, it seems tha tthis passage seems to be referring more ot a meal of some sort than just the Eucharist only. Uness each persons host was much bigger, because I do not see how they could be concerned with some people eating too much or too little or getting drunk if it were anything like how we celebrate it it today. It also makes me think that discerning the body as in the people of Christ is a strong possible meaning of this pasage because so much else in the passage seems to mention it as do elements of the surounding chapters.
Of course, Paul also mentions Jesus' words at the institution, and compares it to sacrifice, so I see room for both meanings myself.
In any case, regarding the examination of conscience that we ought to do. Are you saying this is as simple as making sure we are confident that we are not in a state of mortal sin? For insance, if I get to mass and I knew from the nigght before and the last amount of time since my last confession that I am not aware of any grave sins that I do not need to spend extra time in the morning examining how many sins and what type I have committed? It is simply enough to satisfy this passages demands by knowing that we are not in a state of mortal sin, even if we have not spent much time thinknig about anything.
I ask because sometimes I go to mass and am still tired in the morning and it gets close to time to receive and I realize I have not thought much about my state, other than I know that if I thought were in mortal sin I would defnintely be afraid to receive. Is this enough or should I think a little more.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 09:32 am |
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I see room for both meanings myself.
Yes, the “Catholic both/and.” As I said, this is fine.
I know that if I thought were in mortal sin I would definitely be afraid to receive. Is this enough or should I think a little more.
Yes, in your case it seems quite enough. Any more thought would probably lead to worry and fretting, and we don’t want that.
David
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