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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 05:52 am |
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| how is the real presence in the eucharist specifically different than the fact that God is present everywhere. I mean, i do not need to be in front of the sacrament for God to be present in a powerful way around me. yet i acknowledge that i believe in a unique and wonderful presence that is the eucharsit. how is it the same? how is it different? is it just that there is this physical material that is literally God with us, and somehow it is more powerful and real than the general sense that He is with us always? I am having a hard time finding the right words to even ask the question i am trying to ask, but maybe you get the gist?
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Juan
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 10:28 am |
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Prelim:
It is a Substantial Presence. He is present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. All these are substances. Body and Blood are substance of flesh. Soul and Divinity is a Spiritual Substance (CCC#1374). In the Eucharist, Jesus is Present God and Man.
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1374.htm
In His common presence, God is He in whom we live, move and are (Acts 17:28). He is Yahweh, He Who Is. Therefore God is all being. This is the Being which sustains all creation ( CCC#301).
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/301.htm
Grace is a participation in the life of God. Therefore, all is grace. When we are sustained by God, we participate in His life. But there is an extra quality to Grace when it is infused in us, such as in the Sacraments and in the fiery darts of love of which some of the Saints speak. This Grace is God giving Himself to us (CCC#2003).
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2003.htm
how is the real presence in the eucharist specifically different than the fact that God is present everywhere.
Basically, the difference is in the Flesh and Blood aspect. God is Present everywhere in His Divine Being. But we can't take and eat. We can unite our wills to Him, but we can't ingest Him.
I mean, i do not need to be in front of the sacrament for God to be present in a powerful way around me.
Correct. And few of us are aware of His Presence around us. We are actually one with Him (CCC#795), but few of us ever arrive at that height of Sanctity that we are aware of Him.
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/795.htm
Until we die (2 Cor 5:8).
yet i acknowledge that i believe in a unique and wonderful presence that is the eucharsit. how is it the same?
Same:
He is Present but we don't see Him. We see only through our eyes of faith. We see more clearly as these eyes become eyes of love.
how is it different?
In the Eucharist, He is quantifiable. We may hold Him, take Him into ourselves. He has given us control over Him. We may eat of the Tree of Life. We may participate in His lfe by becoming one with Him.
is it just that there is this physical material that is literally God with us, and somehow it is more powerful and real than the general sense that He is with us always?
It is not MORE real. It is observable, touchable, avalable to our senses. We may taste and see. We may feel. He has given Himself to us in the form of Bread and Wine. This is a very significant Sign. Just as we feed our children, He feeds us. Just as our children share in our flesh, we share in His. Just as we give our life for our children in our everyday activities of work, He gives Himself to us continually. Our Daily Bread, the Eucharist is an efficacious sign of that giving.
I am having a hard time finding the right words to even ask the question i am trying to ask, but maybe you get the gist?
I hope that helps.
Sincerely,
Juan
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 12:04 pm |
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Brian, the Real Presence differs from God’s omnipresence as the Incarnation differs from the ordinary omnipresence of God’s immensity. The Eucharist is Christ’s localized and material human-divine presence, just as Christ’s human body served the same purpose when he lived as man in Palestine 2,000 years ago. This does not make God “more powerful and real” except in the sense that he becomes so to us. In other words, the reason for the Eucharist’s existence in the first place is to allow God to relate to man on man’s own terms and within man’s creaturely limitations, not to make an absolute addition to the Godhead.
The manner in which Christ is present in this sacrament is discussed in the Summa Theologica III.76. Articles 4 through 8 are of particular interest.
Another declaration of the importance of the Incarnation that could be directly attributed to the Eucharist is 1 John 1:1–3.
We must keep in mind that the Eucharist is a mystery because it is intimately connected with God’s own being and incarnational presence in creation. What we can say here does not exhaust the question of the Real Presence, but rather treats of one aspect of it from a human perspective. For instance, what is defined concerning Christ’s person and existence by the early councils of the Church has a direct bearing on our understanding of the Eucharist. Also, Juan’s excellent contribution here utilizes another “portal” to understanding this mystery, the Catechism.
David
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