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Truthseeker
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Costa Mesa, California USA |
| Posts: | 457 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 09:59 pm |
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I know - I have been round and round this, and still, I am confused and terrified of losing my salvation.
I first have to say that, I have seen and heard several times, that while protestants can hope for forgiveness, only catholics can be sure, but for me, I have found that to be the exact opposite of my experience. Before, when I believed in God's forgiveness with just a prayer, I never doubted I was forgiven. Since becoming fully catholic, I have worried about that almost every day! Did I say everything, did Father put his purple stole on, did it count if I didn't say how many times, am I eligible, did I receive Jesus in an unworthy state? Holy cow! And it seems that, I have such a hard time getting to confession, and I wonder, if I die today, knowing I have a car, but can't get there for emotional reasons, fear, whatever, am I saved? Have I just forfeited my chance at heaven, because I'm afraid my husband is going to get mad if I go to church yet again? And then, after months of agonizing, I finally make it, and I swear, I am fallen within the week. Too fallen to receive the Lord, and afraid, again to go to another "church thing" so soon after the last time.
I am really just griping here, because after doing so much that I thought was "for the Lord" and getting right with him, so I could receive Him into myself, I have spent most of the last year, still not able to do that!
So, I am wondering...what does it mean - exactly - to say you must have the intention of going to confession as soon as possible? Does it mean that, if you have a car and confession is held this Saturday, you must go this Saturday? If I have a car, but I can't go, because I know I'm going to church on Sunday, and my husband already hates that, and so I'm afraid of boiling the home waters more by going on Saturday, too - does that qualify as "unable to go"? Before, I saw my confessor after weekday, morning Mass, when my husband didn't know, and it didn't affect him. Now, I have a job and can't do that, and the times offered just are too difficult. I finally got brave enough to attend a bible study, and so am even more worried about being obviously away at church stuff and "neglecting my family" - which is pretty much OK for ANY OTHER REASON OTHER THAN CHURCH! My class is four Thursdays, which is also one of the confession times, and so I'm thinking about just adding on one more Thursday and going to confession then, and nobody will be the wiser. But, in the meantime, I am still not cleansed and absolved. And, on top of that, my parish just consolidated its Sunday Masses, and now, I don't go, because I am always by pregnant women and babies, and I just cry, and my poor children watch me, and so I am afraid to go, now, but then that means I'm not fulfilling my Sunday obligation to God - which I agree with, but just can't do!!! And, I go to daily weekday Mass, and sit while others receive the Lord, and know it's not good enough, because it's not Sunday. And, I always felt like God was happy with everything I gave Him before, and now I feel like it's never good enough, because it's not what the church requires, and yet I believe the church and agree with what it requires, and yet....!!!!! And so, I try to do what God wants, and still worry about my salvation constantly, because what I'm doing doesn't include THE REQUIRED THING!!! The thing that gets me saved ! Forgiven! Absolved! I am the reason people think catholics always feel guilty!!
I don't know. After all this time. I still do not know. And, I have to say, I am tired of being torn in two by guilt and fear.
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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Wayfarer
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Posted: Fri Oct 20th, 2006 02:04 pm |
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Truthseeker, I can relate to how you are feeling. I was received into the Church only last Easter, but rather than producing more peace, it has produced more anxiety. There is no "blessed assurance" of salvation in Catholicism, and I'm dealing with an image of God that seems primarily punitive. Growing up in an evangelical Protestant setting, I'd heard the phrase "personal relationship with Jesus Christ" all my life, but it still seems like finding peace in who I am or who God is (supposedly) seems like so much groping in the dark.
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Truthseeker
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Costa Mesa, California USA |
| Posts: | 457 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Fri Oct 20th, 2006 11:45 pm |
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I think the problem is in not understanding who God really is. We think of Him a certain way, find out it's not correct, and then don't know what we expect from Him anymore. I know He is not as punitve (as you say) as I fear, and yeat, I stii fear it, because I can't be sure. Maybe, He understand our slowness to understand and judges us accordingly. I don't know. I just wonder - does He judge me harsher, because I supposedly have more? Or does His Mercy rule, because He sees my struggle to serve Him? And do I take the chance that I'm not deluding myself?
I just have to trust in His all consuming love, but having never seen what that's like, it's hard to imagine, you know? It really was easier, when I was simply "declared righteous", although, at the same time, it is worth this struggle to become "actually righteous". That's what I want most of all. To really become holy. It takes so long!
Laura
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sat Oct 21st, 2006 01:03 am |
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I think you are still trying to fit a Protestant mindset onto a Catholic concept.
As a Protestant, you were taught that salvation was complete. You were taught that you had absolutely nothing to do with your salvation, that it was a "done deal" in which you did not participate.
As Catholics, our belief is different. Yes, we believe that salvation is a freely offered gift, but we believe that we must accept that gift every single day for the rest of our lives. It's not earned, but rather accepted, over and over and over. Our response to our salvation is in our actions. We must feed the hungry and visit the sick. We must humbly take to our knees in prayer and thank God for everything. We must understand that we ourselves are absolutely helpless, and that only through God can we accomplish our response.
And we fail. The example Jesus gave us was perfect, but he knew we would fall short. And that's OK. He gave us Peter as our example, and Peter lost his temper, denied even knowing his Savior, fled in fear, and cowered in terror in the upper room.
Jesus calls us to be holy, but being holy is not an accomplishment, it is an effort. We continue to try, we continue to fail, and we pick ourselves up, brush ourselves off, and then try again. It is a journey toward perfect holiness that most of us will not complete in this life. Rarely someone will accomplish it, and we hold them in such high esteem that the Church considers recognizing them as saints. I can remember three in my lifetime: Padre Pio (now Saint Pio), Mother Teresa (now Blessed Teresa of Calcutta) and Pope John Paul II (now Servant of God John Paul II). There may have been 20 or 30 billion people who lived at some time since my birth, and I am aware of 3 that I think completed their journey in this life. I'm sure there are more, but I don't know who they were.
So don't live in fear. Trust God that by making the effort, your effort is pleasing to God. God does not want to punish us, God wants us to live eternally in heavenly bliss. God is not looking for an excuse to condemn us, God is looking for the opportunity to welcome us into paradise. That's the "Good News" Jesus came to tell us, that God loves us -- perfectly, completely, and eternally. In fact, God loves us so much that God will respect our decision to be condemned, but it has to be our decision.
As a child, I rejected my parents' love over and over again through my actions. As an adult, I continued to reject their love by being inattentive, inconsiderate, etc. And yet they still loved me. How much more does God love me? How much harder is it for me to convince God to stop loving me?
I know a woman who has stolen everything of value her mother owns, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, to buy drugs and alcohol. Her actions probably killed her father. She stole money from another family member Monday to buy liquor, and this behavior has been going on for 35 years. And yet her mother will not kick her out, even though she knows it would be the best thing for her. How much more does God love us than this mother loves her daughter? How many chances will God give us, if this mother gives her daughter a million chances over 35 years? Our fear now is that the stress will kill the mother, who has been losing weight and not sleeping.
God's love for us is never misguided, and sometimes God loves us so much that God must make us suffer. But God will never abandon us.
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Talithacumi
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 308 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat Oct 21st, 2006 03:32 am |
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Truthseeker wrote: I know - I have been round and round this, and still, I am confused and terrified of losing my salvation... Laura, Dear...
"Breathe!"  I know that you are asking sincere and good questions, but I think sometimes we can get too caught up in theologizing and analyzing – believe me, I know! But there comes a point where you just have to "be still and know that [He is] God."
God knows all the hardships and trials that plague you at this time in your life. I'm not saying to slough off, but just relax and do your best. We all have our limits. God is perfect, but He's not a perfectionist. Remember there are no straight lines in creation. If you are having a hard time getting to Confession, just try to get there when you can. He will make it possible for you when you really need to go.
I think the main point of Confession is conversion. Yes, God wants you to go to Confession - that is the normal way for us to be forgiven and absolved from our sins so that we can be purified, renewed and strengthened without sin on our souls. And the penance we receive is not a punishment, but an exercise to help us grow in faith and love. You see, God is concerned more with the conversion of our hearts than He is with our situations. If your situation is such that it is nearly impossible for you to go to Confession, then pray to God that He will provide a way. "Seek and ye shall find; Knock and the door shall be opened to you." God will provide what you need when you need it. And He is more concerned with our seeking Him than He is with our knowing all the answers.
Laura, it seems like you're drowning in a sea of confusion and struggle. Panicking. Picture this: You're a drowning person and Jesus is a lifeguard. He's an experienced one, though. He knows that if you're drowning, in your fear, you will struggle and lash out and in your panic, if someone tries to save you while you are flailing your arms and lashing out, it would do no good for the life-saver to try and rescue you, as you might just drag Him under or hit him or something - not intentionally, but in a panic, and that would do neither of you any good. So maybe He's right there, just beyond your reach and line of vision, waiting for you to calm down enough to where He can make His move and come to the rescue.
Be still and know that He is God. He loves you, Laura. Maybe He's just waiting for you to stop panicking. Remember: "In this is charity (‘Love’ in other translations…): not as though we had loved God, but because he hath first loved us, and sent his Son to be a propitiation for our sins.” 1 Jn 4:10. We don’t have to work for God’s love; it’s already there. Yes, it's up to us to accept it and to cooperate with it, but God is not going to punish you if you are doing your best in the situation in which you’ve found yourself. Don’t judge yourself more harshly than God Himself would. I’m going to pass on to you what some people have told me in the past: “Don’t try so hard!” Sometimes we can get so immersed in a problem that we can’t look outside of it – or ourselves - and see what might be right there to help us out of it.
Maybe you take too much onto yourself. Relax and breathe and accept yourself where you are. “Poco a poco, se va lejos.” (It’s a Spanish saying that means “Little by little, one goes far.”). “Baby steps”, in other words. I don’t know if this is making any sense, and I know I’m not really answering any of your questions, but I’m just suggesting that maybe you’re trying too hard to rush yourself into getting answers. I remember a line from a movie that kinda makes a little bit of sense in some strange off-the-wall way: “There are no answers, only the search.” You are searching, and that is what God is concerned with… not with whether or not you have all the answers. Maybe you are where you’re supposed to be. Just hang on for the ride and let Jesus calm the storm in your soul. I don’t mean to oversimplify, but sometimes we can over-complicate things to the point where we drive ourselves crazy. Take it from one who knows! 
JMJ
- Cheri
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“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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Truthseeker
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Costa Mesa, California USA |
| Posts: | 457 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Sat Oct 21st, 2006 04:09 pm |
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Thank you both.
Very helpful and comforting. It's amazing how much I know and how little I get! And the more I learn, the less I get it.
Love,
Laura
____________________
Lord, please make my will your Will!
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Truthseeker
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Mon Oct 30th, 2006 01:09 pm |
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I went to confession Saturday - it was pretty unsatisfactory, because my confessor was just a little bit abrupt with me. I really wanted him to tell me I was doing ok, but he was more like - well, a coach for a sport team, letting me know that I wasn't giving my best effort, you know? Which, of course, was correct, but I just wanted it said more gently than it was. He told me to call for non-confessional discussion about my marital/miscarriage issues, but I'm not sure I will, because I'm afraid he'll still be abrupt - and I just really want compassion. Anyway, but I am forgiven and absolved, and healed for the time being, and now, I can start receiving daily Eucharist, and maybe, that alone will help. And, today is adoration day, at my parish! Yay!
On another note, I saw my niece last night for several hours and only cried twice.
I am reading Deep Conversion/Deep Prayer by Father Dubay, and he said true love is compatible with not feeling love. A strange concept for our time, and hard to grasp - but, if i can but grasp it, much of my spiritual angst will be resolved, because I'll know that my feelings of love aren't the same as loving as Christ loves, and I won't feel so guilty about "not feeling the right thing".
Love you guys.
Laura
____________________
Lord, please make my will your Will!
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BettyBoopToo
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
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| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2006 06:19 am |
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Truthseeker wrote: I went to confession Saturday - it was pretty unsatisfactory, because my confessor was just a little bit abrupt with me. I really wanted him to tell me I was doing ok, but he was more like - well, a coach for a sport team, letting me know that I wasn't giving my best effort, you know? Which, of course, was correct, but I just wanted it said more gently than it was. He told me to call for non-confessional discussion about my marital/miscarriage issues, but I'm not sure I will, because I'm afraid he'll still be abrupt - and I just really want compassion. Anyway, but I am forgiven and absolved, and healed for the time being, and now, I can start receiving daily Eucharist, and maybe, that alone will help. And, today is adoration day, at my parish! Yay!
On another note, I saw my niece last night for several hours and only cried twice.
I am reading Deep Conversion/Deep Prayer by Father Dubay, and he said true love is compatible with not feeling love. A strange concept for our time, and hard to grasp - but, if i can but grasp it, much of my spiritual angst will be resolved, because I'll know that my feelings of love aren't the same as loving as Christ loves, and I won't feel so guilty about "not feeling the right thing".
Love you guys.
Laura
Dear Laura:
Please take a deep breath, here comes a spiritual hug. It is all going to be alright. Jesus loves you more than you can ever imagine.
Have you ever read St. Faustina's diary? Faustina is the saint of the Devine Mercy. I think maybe you could benefit from reading some of her writing's. Here is just a snippit I looked up for you.
Jesus: My mercy is greater than your sins and those of the entire world. Who can measure the extent of my goodness? For you I descended from heaven to earth; for you I allowed myself to be nailed to the cross; for you I let my Sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of mercy for you. Come, then with trust to draw graces from this fountain. I never reject a contrite heart. Your misery has disappeared in the depths of My mercy. Do not argue with Me about your wretchedness. You will give Me pleasure if you hand over to Me all your troubles and griefs. I shall heap upon you the treasures of My grace.
Jesus: Be not afraid of your Savior, O sinful soul. I make the first move to come to you, for I know that by yourself you are unable to lift yourself to Me. Child, do not run away from your Father; be willing to talk openly with your God of mercy who wants to speak words of pardon and lavish his graces on you. How dear your soul is to Me! I have inscribed your name upon My hand; you are engraved as a deep wound in My Heart.
Faustina: I fly to Your mercy, Compassionate God, who alone are good. Although my misery is great and my offenses are many, I trust in Your mercy, because you are the God of mercy; and from time immemorial, it has never been heard of, nor do heaven or earth remember, that a soul trusting in Your mercy has been disappointed. O God of compassion, You alone can justify me, and You will never reject me when I, contrite, approach your Merciful Heart, where no one has ever been refused, even if he were the greatest sinner. Diary (1730)
Jesus: Do not omit Holy Communion unless you know well that your fall was serious; apart from this, no doubt must stop you from uniting yourself with Me in the mystery of My love. Diary (156)
Here is the web-site: http://www.divinemercy.com.au/dmspreaddevotion.htm
Also a while back Father Angelus on EWTN had his ten commandments for Scrupulosity. And I thought maybe they may be helpful for you to see.
God Bless you
Betty
1). Do not repeat prayers! No matter how badly they may have been prayed, even if the prayers were given as a penance in confession. Never!
2). Do not repeat the confession of sins that have already been confessed. Never ever!
3). If you doubt the earnestness of your sorrow in confession, consider the sorrow as having been adequate.
4). A doubtful sin is no sin for those suffering from scrupulosity.
5). Should you be in doubt that you have already confessed a sin, always consider the sin as having been confessed.
6). Examine your conscience for no longer that one minute each day, and for no longer than 5 minutes before a confession.
7). If you have prayed at the time of temptation, you can be sure that you did not commit a grave sin.
8). If you have ever made a general confession do not make another one. Once a month is a good norm for the frequency of confession.
9). If possible, go to confession to the same confessor. This one is very helpful and important. If I even start to slip into Scrupulos behavior, Father L. will cut me short too.
10). Cultivate a humble heart by complete obedience to the direction of the confessor. Be patient with yourself. Love is the goal of all of our lives. And this is the only way to secure peace. And peace is the Lord’s farewell gift to you and to me
If your a wife, mother and working woman, You have a very big job. Taking care of your family will help you to be holy. You don't always have to be at church in order to achieve holiness. Jesus want's you to take care of your family.
We have activities at our parish every day & night. Many I'd love to be involved in. My husband is not ready for a complete reversion (He's a cradle Catholic) yet. I've been taught by my spiritual director that It's not good to make him a so called widower to the Alter and it may make him resent my conversion more than he already sometimes does. So I can relate to the strain of wanting to participate in functions down at the church.
May the Peace of Christ be with you
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
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| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2006 11:03 am |
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| There is so much new language to learn in becoming a Catholic. What is "scrupulosity" exactly? Is it basically looking too hard for sin in your life? (Did Martin Luther suffer from this??)
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2006 12:07 pm |
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JillD wrote: There is so much new language to learn in becoming a Catholic. What is "scrupulosity" exactly? Is it basically looking too hard for sin in your life? (Did Martin Luther suffer from this??)
Yes and yes. The Catholic Encyclopedia at New Advent describes it as believing something is a sin when it isn't. You can read the definition here.
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Truthseeker
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2006 01:06 pm |
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Well, I did very well being ice to my husband for one day! Then, I came home and he was talking to a pregnant woman on my front lawn, and I had to walk past them to my house. And, I immediately was filled with such sorrow, that I turned to rage while I cried. How do I treat him with love on a regular basis, when I keep experiencing hurtful triggers that throw me back into a funk. I wanted to take my Deep Conversion book and throw it across the room, because I can't imagine ever acheiving it. If I could just work on everything else- and leave this one thing for later, but it's this one thing that holds me back, and so I understand that the Lord has to "get it out of me" and work me through it, but I swear - I may spend the rest of eternitiy in purgatory over it! I realize I am clinging to my sin, yet, can't let bring myself to let go. I just don't ever want to trust him again. I don't want to make myself available to that kind of hurt again.
Lord help me!
Laura
____________________
Lord, please make my will your Will!
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2006 03:56 pm |
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Laura, I’ve taken some time to think and pray about this. You can take my counsel or leave it, but at least I’ve done what I could.
It is not so much the loss of your child that depresses you but that you blame your husband for that loss. Jesus forgave his tormenters from the cross; you must do the same. You will not be “well” until you do.
What you read in that book is the same thing I’ve been telling you all along: that true love is not a “good feeling” but a purgatory. If you love, you will suffer. But you will also be cleansed. Love is your salvation. Isn’t this the bedrock message of the gospel?
Remember, as well, that you do not “achieve” your salvation; it is given to you as a grace. So you do not have to do things that are beyond your capacity. God will take care of your needs. Your job is to take care of yourself by being wholly his.
You want sympathy and soothing words from your confessor, but I think he did the right thing. I am convinced he knows the score and truly wants to help you. Don’t defeat healing by running away. I urge you to go to him for a conference, as he has suggested. Isn’t recovery what you want? Let him be the surgeon of your soul. Fear will get you nowhere.
The good people who have responded to you here have given you much insightful and helpful counsel. I hope you recognize this and receive their words into your heart. Above all, trust God. Without that trust, as one of them has said, you will drown in your own misery. And there is no need of this. If you must suffer, at least make that suffering count towards your salvation and ultimate happiness.
David
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Talithacumi
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| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2006 04:25 pm |
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Truthseeker wrote: I went to confession Saturday - it was pretty unsatisfactory, because my confessor was just a little bit abrupt with me. I really wanted him to tell me I was doing ok, but he was more like - well, a coach for a sport team, letting me know that I wasn't giving my best effort, you know? Which, of course, was correct, but I just wanted it said more gently than it was. He told me to call for non-confessional discussion about my marital/miscarriage issues, but I'm not sure I will, because I'm afraid he'll still be abrupt - and I just really want compassion. Anyway, but I am forgiven and absolved, and healed for the time being, and now, I can start receiving daily Eucharist, and maybe, that alone will help. And, today is adoration day, at my parish! Yay!
On another note, I saw my niece last night for several hours and only cried twice.
I am reading Deep Conversion/Deep Prayer by Father Dubay, and he said true love is compatible with not feeling love. A strange concept for our time, and hard to grasp - but, if i can but grasp it, much of my spiritual angst will be resolved, because I'll know that my feelings of love aren't the same as loving as Christ loves, and I won't feel so guilty about "not feeling the right thing".
Love you guys.
Laura
Laura,
Hi. I am glad you were able to make it to Confession. I don't know the situation about your confession time, but if there was a line or if it was just before Mass, actually I can understand your priest not wanting to get into your issues too deeply (though perhaps he shouldn't have been so abrupt). I know a lot of times I have heard priests suggest (usually before a penance service or it there are a lot of people going to Confession) that if you need to talk with him about issues or are in need of pastoral counseling to please make an appointment. Sometimes if a priest seems abrupt or unwilling to talk it's just because of time issues. But you are right to focus on the positive. At least now you are absolved and can go to Communion! What a relief that is, eh?
Your post brought to mind the other day when I myself went to Confession, and in fact, something my pastor said might kind of relate to what you were saying about "feelings of love." I, too, have always struggled with this. I don't want to get too personal on here, but for so long I have often struggled with not being able to feel God's love for me. I have never had a problem believing that Jesus died for humanity, but when I am struggling in moments of depression, I find it very hard to believe that He died for me, personally.
But Saturday during my confession, at one point, I was saying to my pastor, "Fr., I go to church every Sunday, I pray, I go to Confession monthly... and yet..." and my pastor sort of broke in and said with a kind of knowing look on his face (like he must have heard this kind of thing before), "You think that maybe you should get rewarded with money or a nice house or a nice car, or that sort of thing?" And I sat there and really thought about it for a minute, and then I said to him in all honesty, "No, that's not really it... I just wonder why I don't feel closer to Him."
And then he said something that sort of hit home. First of all, he mentioned St. Therese of Lisieux and how, in her last months, she was plagued by serious doubts about heaven. But his point was that she was suffering from the Dark Night of the Soul. And I just looked at my pastor and said, "for my whole life? – ‘cause it sure seems that way sometimes…" And then he went on to compare my relationship with the Lord to that of two friends. He said that sometimes people think that as a friendship progresses and the two people draw closer, then it means that they are able to share more joys together, and then he said (paraphrasing…), “but no! As a friendship progresses, they draw together in a deeper way because they begin to trust in each other enough to share their sorrows. That’s indicative of a close friendship.” It’s that whole thing about sharing in Christ’s sufferings, and Fr. mentioned the words of Jesus from the Cross: “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?” (sort of a confirmation of sorts, as I meditate on that one a lot). Fr. was telling me that “God is there; it doesn’t always seem like it, but He is with you.” A picture came to mind of that plaque I’ve so often seen (I have it in my bathroom): “Footprints in the sand” and how the person was dreaming of himself and the Lord on the beach but there were only one set of footprints in the sand in his toughest times and the Lord said, “My son, those were the times I carried you in my arms.”
Anyway, I know this whole thing probably doesn’t strike you the way it did me, because the message was for me, and sometimes when you try to share that kind of message with someone else, it just doesn’t get across. But I’m hoping that you get the picture that loving God does not always involve feeling. Lord knows, if it did, I’d have been gone a long, long time ago! But still, I do struggle with it, I confess. What can I say? I’m human, and I long for the fullness of love. But “our hearts are restless until they rest in thee, O Lord,” as St. Augustine said. I guess that’s one reason I stay in the Church. I want to get to Heaven so I can truly experience that love to the fullest. I’d hate to have to have gone through all this sadness in life only to miss out on eternal Divine Bliss when it’ll be available to me then, you know?
God bless and take care.
JMJ
- Cheri
Last edited on Tue Oct 31st, 2006 04:27 pm by Talithacumi
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Truthseeker
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Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2006 09:08 pm |
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As usual, you all give me very good advice.
I know I sound like I blame my husband for my miscarriage, but really, what I blame him for is not wanting his own child and not loving me enough to let me get pregnant again. Which is still very...blaming.
In Deep Conversion/Deep Prayer, I read how we are supposed to only spend a few moments in confession, tell our sins matter of factly and briefly, so others can have their turn, and save longer issues for another time, and to confess only our sins and not what others do that lead to them. It would have been nice to read this part before Saturday!! I, of course, was bawling by the time I got in there, and I didn't go into full detail, but I wanted Father to understand why I am so hateful. So, it all makes sense. I am just very emotional and confused. What's new there?
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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Luke12:48
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 12:31 am |
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"Also a while back Father Angelus on EWTN had his ten commandments for Scrupulosity. "
I looked on EWTNs website for more info on this--is there anything else? Is he saying that these apply only to those dealing with scrupulosity?
I would like to see more on these since I recently read Lord, Have Mercy by Scott Hahn and am not sure I understand a couple of these since they seem to contradict what I read.
Thank you.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 01:25 am |
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Hi, Kate. It may help if you look upon scrupulosity as the spiritual equivalent of the obsessive-compulsive disorder in psychology. Fr. Angelus’ “ten commandments” are special rules for people who are battling this difficulty. They should not be thought of as standard rules for everybody, whereas what you read in Scott Hahn’s book was probably the “normal” approach for the non-scrupulous.
My experience shows that scrupulosity is rather common, with as high as 20 percent of people showing at least a temporary problem at some point in their lives. Much of this, however, is due to ignorance, adolescence or other conditions that are not necessarily chronic.
The Catholic Encyclopedia article referenced by cajunrick is a good introduction to the subject. If you are interested in something more in depth without getting too technical, Fr. Adolph Tanquerey’s classic, The Spiritual Life, has a section dedicated to scruples, including guidelines for penitent and confessor.
David
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Luke12:48
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 01:46 am |
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I am hesitant to jump in here because I really don't know your history or the why in some of your posts but I have dealt with some of the feelings and issues you mention. I am not a theologian so if any of my presumptions are inappropriate, I trust that someone here will correct me. Actually, other than one that was lost when the board was crashing, I think this is my first post that attempts to offer an answer rather than a question. I offer this in the hope you find some peace....
There is no such thing as "feeling the right thing" No other person has lived in your shoes. Only you know what the loss of your child and your feelings toward your husband should feel like. You may want to feel something else but you alone know what hopes and dreams were a part of this child. You know how many times you tried to get pregnant and failed or how many times you miscarried or what you felt when you saw a baby and realized your baby would be that age. Even when someone has faced multiple losses, each one and the feelings that go with it are different. Your husband's reaction has a major affect on how you feel.
Rather than focus on what you should or think you should be feeling, go with what is there. Accept it and let it be part of you. It will not go away but you will learn to live with it. Even if you have another child down the road, this one will always be a part of you and you will never be the same person you were before. Having another baby, believe it or not, does not take away all the pain.
Although you may be angry with your husband, you are still hurting over the loss of your child. You husband is a convenient target because of the decision he has made.
Look at all the times, people conceive a child in the midst of sin or all the time people do everything they can to have or not have a child and they get the opposite of what they planned. Who is deciding? Do you believe that God creates life where it was meant to be?
One way or another, if you were meant to have another child, you will. It's just not up to you to make the final decision. If God wants to find a way around your husband's will, don't you think he can? If your husband said yes and you tried and tried and failed, would you be as mad at God as you are at your husband? Would you blame Him?
On the other hand, if it is His will that you not have another child, maybe He is achieving that through your husband's decision. Who know what else is planned for you?
Rather than asking for what you want, ask for help in gracefully accepting whatever is planned for you. We have a pastor who suggests looking for Jesus in each person you interact with each day. If you look at your husband that way, does it make it easier to maybe see him as an instrument of God's will? Would you have the same feelings toward your husband? Would it be easier to say "Thy will be done..."
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 03:26 pm |
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Hi (Kate?) -
You make very good points. At various times throughout the past year, and really throughout each day, I have done all that you mentioned. Given it all to God, taken it all back, forgiven my husband, hated him fiercely, asked for strength to do God's Will, begged Him to do mine, trusted Him, and turned my back. What a roller coaster.
I guess, I am feeling guilt at my own anger. Fear that I will lose my family unit. Sadness that sometimes, I don't care if I do. I am trying desparately to be a "believing disciple" of my Lord, while not believing, or rather not knowing what and if I believe. I know God can bend my husband's will, but don't know that He will, and that frirghtens me. It also frightens me to think that, if I let God fall me in love with my husband again, my husband will hurt me, again - not little hurts that I have come to expect and live with, but another big devastating HURT!! And I don't want to love a man who doesn't want his own child. That is so foreign to me. My husband is not a bad man, but he is not a Godly man, either. That make me so vulnerable. And, I want to be vulnerable for the Lord, but I don't want to suffer the consequences of it. I wonder if I am angry at God and afraid to be, and so blame my husband instead of Him, but also know that my husband is the actual one who has hurt me. Maybe, I have hated God at times this past year. How sad would that be? And yet, I am weak enough to do it. Even as I proclaim iIs greatness and my great love for Him. I think I am a hypocrite, and that is a horrible thing to be.
It is just very confusing to feel so many conflicting things - ALL THE TIME - with no resolution. No final resolution to who I am and who God is and who He is in me and why!
And, I feel like I am letting God down by doubting so much. And by not loving enough. And by not forgiving. Etcetera. Not because I am trying to earn my salvation, but because I love Him.
Thank you, everyone.
Love,
Laura
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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