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princessleah
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| Joined: | Tue Mar 27th, 2007 |
| Location: | Adelaide, Australia |
| Posts: | 19 |
| First Name: | Leah | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Adelaide to Rome, I'd say I'm at about Naples!! |
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Posted: Thu Apr 12th, 2007 04:11 am |
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I need a bit of help trying to understand confession, penance, indulgences, purgatory, etc. (I know that sounds like an awful lot!!) I've been reading a book aimed at converts, but that didnt go into enough detail, so I looked at a Catholic encycolpedia on the net, but that was way too much detail that I was getting lost!!
Does anyone know of any good websites that help explain these things? Books are helpful too, but I live in Australia so unless I can get the book over here, its probably not much help.
Thanks,
*princessleah*
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1714 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Apr 12th, 2007 08:26 am |
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Leah, if you can formulate some preliminary questions, we would be happy to work through them with you here on the forum. This way we get a sense of your specific needs. We would then be able to recommend suitable resources in the course of our discussion.
Meanwhile, have you read the pertinent sections of the Catechism? There are several online texts; one of them is here. My suggestion would be that you begin with Part Three: Life in Christ, which covers man’s moral and spiritual life, justification and salvation, then proceed to the section on the Sacrament of Penance, followed by the subsections on the other topics that you mention.
You could then follow up on the forum, perhaps with questions of a more practical nature.
David
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princessleah
Member
| Joined: | Tue Mar 27th, 2007 |
| Location: | Adelaide, Australia |
| Posts: | 19 |
| First Name: | Leah | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Adelaide to Rome, I'd say I'm at about Naples!! |
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Posted: Fri Apr 13th, 2007 05:08 am |
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OK, I'll start with this one:
Is someone able to explain the terms partial and plenary indulgences?
I guess to me, being raised in protestantism, indulgences were taught as people paying money for the forgiveness of their sin. Now I know this isn't the whole story, which is why Im seeking out a better source!!
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Br_Carlo
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tyler, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 153 |
| First Name: | Br_Carlo (Vince Brach) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Episcopalian, CATHOLIC |
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Posted: Fri Apr 13th, 2007 08:28 am |
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God's peace. I too had difficulty understanding indulgences, which have no parallel in Protestant theology. You can find excellent descriptions of them in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, #1471-79. The Catechism is the most important book you should have if you are seriously exploring the Church. Every doctrine of the Church is set forth and fully explained. It should be available even in Australia, and can also be read online.
Incidentally, if you are not using eBay to get hard-to-get books, let me recommend it. While postage may be a bit steep, I find that to get British books and DVD's shipped to America from the UK often costs more than ordering them from Australia! Plus, if that's the only place you can get them, well . . . how badly did you want them?:?
The practice of requiring payment for indulgences was an abuse that grew during the Middle Ages. Martin Luther rightly attacked this practice in his "95 Theses." The sale of indulgences (and other abuses) led to substantial and sweeping reforms in the Council of Trent. Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
Last edited on Fri Apr 13th, 2007 08:46 am by Br_Carlo
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Br_Carlo
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tyler, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 153 |
| First Name: | Br_Carlo (Vince Brach) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Episcopalian, CATHOLIC |
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Posted: Fri Apr 13th, 2007 08:44 am |
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God's peace, again. The Catholic teaching on Confession, usually called Reconciliation or the Sacrament of Penance nowadays, is also set forth in the Catechism (#1455-1470). The Catholic teaching of the need to confess mortal sins to a priest, who gives us absolution (not merely assurance of pardon--a very important difference!), is based on several things that you need to study at the same time:
1) The nature of the Catholic priesthood (as opposed to the lay office of "minister," which is what you are used to), especially the Catholic teaching that the priest acts as "another Christ" in the course of rightly administering the sacraments;
2) The authority granted by Jesus to the Apostles and to their successors to bind and loose sins (John 20: 21-23). In all my Protestant years I never heard a sermon or a teaching based on this text. I think it is avoided by most Protestant ministers, since it is so clearly supportive of the Catholic position.
May God continue to bless you on your journey. Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
Last edited on Fri Apr 13th, 2007 09:12 am by Br_Carlo
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri Apr 13th, 2007 11:47 am |
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princessleah wrote: OK, I'll start with this one:
Is someone able to explain the terms partial and plenary indulgences?
When we sin, there are consequences. Indulgences help to satisfy these consequences. A "partial indulgence" partially satisfies the consequences, and a "plenary indulgence" fully satisfies the consequences.
Let me use an analogy. Suppose you steal something valuable from a friend. You return it and ask forgiveness, and your friend forgives you. Does that mean your "sin" is wiped away? How long will it be until your friend trusts you? Will you have to go out of your way to make sure you are trustworthy? These are the consequences of your "sin" or what the Church calls "temporal punishment".
If you do something extraordinary for your friend, you will satisfy her that you are trustworthy once again. Gaining a plenary indulgence is an extraordinary act. More likely you'll do lots of little things that over time will regain her trust. Those are partial indulgences.
In our relationship with God, we are constantly doing the small things ("venial sins") that separate us from God's loving care. We are also constantly doing small things (partial indulgences) that bring us closer to God. For most of us, we will never fully make up for all the little things we do until we stop doing them, and that won't happen until our death. So most of us will need final purification before we can enter God's Presence. And that takes place in a place of purgation known as "Purtagory", where we are purified with God's love "as gold tested in fire."
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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princessleah
Member
| Joined: | Tue Mar 27th, 2007 |
| Location: | Adelaide, Australia |
| Posts: | 19 |
| First Name: | Leah | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Adelaide to Rome, I'd say I'm at about Naples!! |
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Posted: Sat Apr 14th, 2007 04:02 am |
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So, let me see if I understand correctly:
The time we will spend in purgatory is a result of the sins that we do not fully 'make up for' in terms of partial and plenary indulgences?
And another question... these indulgences, are they another term for penance? Or is that something different? This is where I start to get confused! I know there is the Sacrement of Penance (going to confession??) but if someone talks in terms of doing penance, or receiving penance as when they go to confession, is this something different to indulgences?
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1714 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Apr 14th, 2007 10:08 am |
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These indulgences, are they another term for penance? Or is that something different? This is where I start to get confused!
Yes, indulgences have to do with penance. Here‘s how it works:
Every sin has its consequences, which must be expiated by penance. Penance is essentially the suffering that sin brings on, but voluntary penance (doing something extra to augment the involuntary suffering) speeds expiation. Now an indulgence is a voluntary penance done by the saints who have gone before us which has been placed in the Church’s “spiritual treasury” to be accessed by those who are willing to work at their own penance through prayer, spiritual effort and suffering in order to gain the indulgence. So it is an additional help, kind of like someone praying for you and helping you to move closer to Christ — an aid to expiating your own sins or those of the souls in purgatory.
I know there is the Sacrement of Penance (going to confession??) but if someone talks in terms of doing penance, or receiving penance as when they go to confession, is this something different to indulgences?
Yes, the sacrament of penance is where we confess our sins and are absolved of them, receiving a penance to do in expiation of the temporal consequences of those sins. What is not fully expiated in this life must be expiated in the next life. The state of expiation in the next life is called purgatory, because it purges us of the remnants of forgiven sin.
David
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wmschrader
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Fort Myers, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 82 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Apr 14th, 2007 12:57 pm |
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May I suggest a wonderful book on Confession
Lord, Have Mercy: The Healing Power of Confession by Scott Hahn
Attachment: Lord Have Mercy.jpg (Downloaded 16 times)
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Bill
Glory be to God for all things
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