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susiedear
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| Joined: | Thu Oct 12th, 2006 |
| Location: | Twin Cities, Minnesota USA |
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| First Name: | Elizabeth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Pentecostal / Evangelical / Catholic! |
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Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2007 06:46 pm |
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One of my protestant friends, who is concerned for my salvation, sent me a long article written to rebuff Catholic faith and practice. The author is Gary Zeolla, and the article is named "Salvation in the Roman Catholic Church." Below I've copied three paragraphs that deeply trouble me, followed by two paragraphs that contains my response. I welcome your feedback as I seek to communicate the truth and necessity of penance. Thank you!
Protestants would agree that whenever possible, one should make amends to the person who has been wronged. But the disagreement comes in when the RCC says that such acts somehow “make satisfaction for” or “expiate” the sinner’s sins.
The RCC correctly notes in the next paragraph that Christ “alone expiated our sins” (P 1460). So it’s rather confusing for it to also say the sinner needs to make expiation as well.
The subsection to paragraph 1460 states, “The satisfaction that we make for our sins, however, is not so much ours as though it were not done through Jesus Christ.” It is true that any good we do is done in Christ, but again, if Christ alone made satisfaction for our sins, there is nothing we can do to add to that satisfaction.
The average Catholic could easily take these statements to mean that he needs to somehow “add” to what Christ has done in order to be forgiven. And such an attitude could easily set someone up on a treadmill of continuing trying to do “good” to “pay” for past sins. In fact, this theme is common in TV shows: the “hero” at one time lived an evil life, but now is trying to “atone” for his sins by doing good works. But as can be seen in such shows, this mindset sets someone up for an every ending battle to do enough good for such an atonement, with never knowing when enough has been done. It might make for an exciting TV show, but in real life it can be emotionally devastating.
Here's how I want to respond:
No, absolutely not, does any Catholic believe that we can add anything to the precious atoning work that Christ achieved on the Cross. The statement that we need to “add” to the work of Christ is offensive to me and to every Catholic I know. After years of living as a Protestant, I can vouch for the fact that no Church on earth emphasizes the eternal atoning work of Christ through His death and resurrection as much as the Catholic Church. We trust in Him alone.
That said, the author of the article seems to misunderstand the use of penance. If Christ is sufficient, why must we add works? Here’s an illustration that my priest gave to help us understand why we do acts of penance. Say some kids were playing ball and it went through my window. They could say that they are sorry and ask for forgiveness, and I would forgive them. But the effect of the mistake is still real -- the window is still broken and needs to be fixed. Penance is akin to fixing the window. Even when sin is confessed and forgiven, the effects of sin remain. Doing acts of penance helps us grow in humility as we seek to make things right with those whom we have wronged.
What do you think of my response? What should I add? Is there anything I should remove? I welcome any feedback you can give. Thank you!
Elizabeth
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But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. St. Augustine
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2007 08:18 pm |
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Hi, Elizabeth. You are quite right to point out that all sin has consequences, and the expiation we endure for our sins is precisely those consequences. The ball game and broken window are a classic parable of the situation. It can be quite instructive. But do not be surprised if your Protestant friend doesn’t buy it, because many Protestants have bought into the idea that “Christ atoned for our sins so we don’t have to.”
A number of other threads here touch upon this theme and discuss certain aspects of it. Here are a couple of recent ones:
One
Two
David
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
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| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2007 08:36 pm |
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Hi Elizabeth
The most effective way I have found to address this argument is to ask a few questions and then let them flounder for a while
First I quote to them Colossians 1:24 "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church"
Then I would say "I know how I understand this passage as a Catholic, but can you tell me as a .... (protestant, baptist etc)
1. What was 'lacking in Christ's afflictions'?
2. How does Paul 'fill up' that lack?
3. How does Paul's 'filling up' benefit the body of Christ (that is, the church)?
And don't give them any hints or anything, demand reasonable answers, because Christ claimed to be the Truth, and you want the Truth
Regards Dave,
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japhy
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| Joined: | Thu Apr 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Princeton, New Jersey USA |
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| First Name: | Jeff / japhy | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | (Roman) Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2007 09:38 pm |
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Jesus tells us to take up our crosses and follow him! Our crosses are penitential. Jesus has made suffering redemptive because his suffering led to our redemption; thus our suffering has a redemptive quality to it as well.
In Luke 19, Jesus meets with a rich man, and the man immediately promises to repay anyone he has defrauded; Jesus assures Zaccheus (the rich man) that "salvation has come to this house". That sounds like penance to me.
Last edited on Tue Jul 10th, 2007 09:41 pm by japhy
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[Mary said,] "Do whatever he tells you." - John 2:5
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susiedear
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| Joined: | Thu Oct 12th, 2006 |
| Location: | Twin Cities, Minnesota USA |
| Posts: | 186 |
| First Name: | Elizabeth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Pentecostal / Evangelical / Catholic! |
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Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2007 11:32 pm |
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Thank you all for your great responses; I especially appreciate the links and the Scripture citations. I'm going to revise my response to really give them more food for thought. Thank you!
Elizabeth
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But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. St. Augustine
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
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| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 01:18 am |
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Well Elizabeth, just off the "top of my head" ( ) Jesus words came to me. "Strive to enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction. And many are those that go by it." It may not be quoted exactly word for word since I'm writing from memory. But you get the gist. Why "strive" if Christ did it all? Why even bother praying if Christ did it all? I suspect the man you are communicating with is from the eternal security persuasion. Am right?
The writer of Hebrews admonishes us to "strive to enter by that rest." because many did not enter that rest. In fact, I encourage you to read the book of Hebrews. There are so many passages in that book that are against Protestant Evangelical thought. And now it makes sense to me that seldom did I ever hear a sermon preached from the book of Hebrews. Except, of course, chapter 11, the faith chapter.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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susiedear
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| Joined: | Thu Oct 12th, 2006 |
| Location: | Twin Cities, Minnesota USA |
| Posts: | 186 |
| First Name: | Elizabeth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Pentecostal / Evangelical / Catholic! |
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 04:35 pm |
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Yes, Darlene, how right you are! My friends are a married couple who come from Southern Baptist backgrounds, so they both believe in eternal security. Even when I was a protestant, I could never understand how that persuasion could be believed as truth.
Your post brought back memories from my Bible school days. I took at class on Hebrews, and the professor mumbled his way through many passages, claiming that it simply wasn't possible to truly get the meaning. I'll take your advice and re-read. Thank you for your excellent, helpful response. I'll let you know how the dialog with my friends proceeds.
Elizabeth
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But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. St. Augustine
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Juan
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 11:01 pm |
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What do you think of my response? What should I add? Is there anything I should remove? I welcome any feedback you can give. Thank you!
I like it. I think you said it all.
Sincerely,
Juan
Last edited on Wed Jul 11th, 2007 11:02 pm by Juan
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susiedear
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| Joined: | Thu Oct 12th, 2006 |
| Location: | Twin Cities, Minnesota USA |
| Posts: | 186 |
| First Name: | Elizabeth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Pentecostal / Evangelical / Catholic! |
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Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 12:29 am |
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Thank you, Juan. As a newbie, I'm still getting used to defending my faith.
Elizabeth
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But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. St. Augustine
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