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Daffodil
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| Joined: | Sat Apr 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 78 |
| First Name: | Daffodil | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | not attending church, New Age, Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 21st, 2007 05:58 pm |
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My fiance is willing to be married by a Catholic priest. The problem is that the priest cannot marry us. My fiance is deployed, and we only have a month in the same place before he has to go back. A month later, he needs to have our paperwork ready to have married housing, so that we can move to where his new post will be. My priest requires 6 months of counseling before he can marry a couple. This is not possible for us. How do military couples get through this hurdle?
I would have to move to where he is stationed and live with him for 6 months, in order for counseling to be possible. Not only would this put us in the same quarters where we might (most likely would) have premarital sex, but it would put us in the situation of living in other ways as if we are married when we are not.
Our priest suggested I wait for 3 more years before we get married. I have already waited 4 years for this man!!! I don't believe that any relationship, no matter how compatible, would survive a 7-year, long-distance relationship.
I am not Catholic, so I am not required to be married in a Catholic church, but I want this for us. Right now, our only option seems to be to wed in the Episcopal church of which I still technically a member. The Episcopal priest waved the 6-month requirement that they have because of our circumstances.
Any ideas?
____________________
My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior....
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BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 720 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Thu Jun 21st, 2007 07:56 pm |
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| My idea would be to get married in the Episcopal church. Then when you get settled and first chance you get, renew your wedding vows in a Catholic church with a priest.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Jun 21st, 2007 09:59 pm |
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Truly, I agree with Criff. As long as your husband is also not Catholic, your marriage will be recognized as sacramental by the Church even if you are married by a justice of the peace. My daughter found herself in the same situation when her fiance was ordered to Germany. If they married, she could accompany him at government expense and qualify for government housing. If not, she would have to pay her own expenses. It was not the situation she wanted, but she really had no other choice. In retrospect, she would have been better off without him.
Since you are not currently Catholic, you would not be violating any of the Church's rules by being married by your Episcopal priest. You can do it with a clear conscience.
The Catholic Church is very concerned about the high divorce rate, which is why counseling is required. In Louisiana, a minimum of four months of counseling is required before a couple can be married. In your case, I suggest that you do what you need to do. You can always renew your vows before a priest at a later date.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 877 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 05:08 pm |
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Ok, I have a question here. Rick, are you giving this advice because you are assuming her husband-to-be is not Catholic? I hope so, because from what I understand, it would not be right according to Catholic discipline and teaching for her husband, if he were Catholic, to marry in the Episcopal Church.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Daffodil
Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 21st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 78 |
| First Name: | Daffodil | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | not attending church, New Age, Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 05:19 pm |
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| He's not Catholic. Neither am I.
____________________
My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior....
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Darlene
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 877 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 05:31 pm |
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Thanks for the speedy reply, Daffodil. Then my next question is to you Daffodil. If neither you or your husband-to-be are Catholic, then why are you looking to get married by a priest and/or in the Catholic Church?
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Daffodil
Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 21st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 78 |
| First Name: | Daffodil | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | not attending church, New Age, Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 06:59 pm |
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BodRod wrote: My idea would be to get married in the Episcopal church. Then when you get settled and first chance you get, renew your wedding vows in a Catholic church with a priest.
Well, that is what he is leaning towards, getting married in another church. I am just wondering, though.........I've already reached the point where I cannot take Communion at, or even attend services at, my old church. I wanted so much to be able to take Communion with my new husband when I got married someday--I never anticipated wanting to jump the Tiber, and I never anticipated that we might be in circumstances where one of us might not be able to Receive while the other does. It has worried me, that this kind of problem would only be the beginning.  I will be praying about this more, and I will consider everyone's words.
____________________
My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior....
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 09:29 pm |
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Darlene wrote: Ok, I have a question here. Rick, are you giving this advice because you are assuming her husband-to-be is not Catholic? I hope so, because from what I understand, it would not be right according to Catholic discipline and teaching for her husband, if he were Catholic, to marry in the Episcopal Church.
Yes, Darlene, I made that assumption based on her first statement:
My fiance is willing to be married by a Catholic priest.
If he was Catholic, he would be required to be married by a Catholic priest, and I apologize if I did not make that clear. I did make the assumption based on the way she phrased her question that neither of them was Catholic, and I should have added that to my response.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Gnyssa
Member
| Joined: | Sat Nov 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 29 |
| First Name: | Gnyssa | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopalian, Roman Catholic since 2003, RC priest 2006 |
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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 05:22 pm |
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Daffodil,
God bless our men and women in the service!
Please let me make sure I understand your concern. You want to be a Roman Catholic, and you do not want to be married in the Episcopal Church because you do not want to be in communion with them?
If this is the case, I would suggest a civil ceremony, which would still be considered valid the the RCC, because neither of you are Catholic now. The Catholic Church does not require non-Catholics to be married by any particular flavor of clergyman or state officer for validity. (I defer to the Church on this point.)
I would advise you to ask your fiancee to contact a Roman Catholic military chaplain for advice. The chaplain on his assignment should be able to put him in contact with one. Alternatively, a Protestant chaplain might be willing to do a generic Christian rite for you.
best wishes
Gnyssa
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Daffodil
Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 21st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 78 |
| First Name: | Daffodil | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | not attending church, New Age, Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2007 10:58 am |
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Daffodil,
God bless our men and women in the service!
Please let me make sure I understand your concern. You want to be a Roman Catholic, and you do not want to be married in the Episcopal Church because you do not want to be in communion with them?
If this is the case, I would suggest a civil ceremony, which would still be considered valid the the RCC, because neither of you are Catholic now. The Catholic Church does not require non-Catholics to be married by any particular flavor of clergyman or state officer for validity. (I defer to the Church on this point.)
I would advise you to ask your fiancee to contact a Roman Catholic military chaplain for advice. The chaplain on his assignment should be able to put him in contact with one. Alternatively, a Protestant chaplain might be willing to do a generic Christian rite for you.
best wishes
Gnyssa
Thank you, Gnyssa.  However, I want Christ at the center of our wedding, as well as our marriage, so a church wedding it will be. If the Catholic Church refuses to accomodate a soldier during wartime, then we will go somewhere else. We do not need to receive communion during the wedding ceremony, so the Episcopal church will suffice, if that is our only alternative. I am willing to do counseling sessions by webcam, if needs be. We are willing to do counseling after we get married, as well, if there is no alternative. I have recently been experiencing doubts about the RC becauase of a rule that seems very much legalistic, considering we have no alternative. This is the lifestyle of a soldier.
It feels as if we are being punished because he is in the military.
____________________
My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior....
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Ali
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 622 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 09:46 am |
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Daffodil wrote:
Thank you, Gnyssa. However, I want Christ at the center of our wedding, as well as our marriage, so a church wedding it will be. If the Catholic Church refuses to accomodate a soldier during wartime, then we will go somewhere else. We do not need to receive communion during the wedding ceremony, so the Episcopal church will suffice, if that is our only alternative. I am willing to do counseling sessions by webcam, if needs be. We are willing to do counseling after we get married, as well, if there is no alternative. I have recently been experiencing doubts about the RC becauase of a rule that seems very much legalistic, considering we have no alternative. This is the lifestyle of a soldier.
It feels as if we are being punished because he is in the military.
Remember, God's law was written for us. Man's laws were not written for God. In other words, God has our best intentions in mind when following his rules. Men do not have God's best intentions at heart when writing their rules. God gave us his laws for a reason and to protect us for all time. Sometimes the two just cannot agree. If they did, then the military would be willing to bend, not expecting God to bend to them. See what I mean?
Please do not let a seemingly "legalistic" rule (to you) stop you from persuing Christ's true church. Are you sure there isn't something else causing doubts for you? (I mean this in a loving concerned way, not in a holier than thou way, or with attitude).
Ali
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Annie
Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 718 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 11:00 am |
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Ali wrote: Daffodil wrote:
I have recently been experiencing doubts about the RC becauase of a rule that seems very much legalistic, considering we have no alternative. This is the lifestyle of a soldier.
It feels as if we are being punished because he is in the military.
If they did, then the military would be willing to bend, not expecting God to bend to them. See what I mean?
I understand about the legalism as I had trouble even getting into the Church because of "rules" which as it turned out were being misinterpreted and ignored.
As for the military bending to the rules of the Church, that it cannot do, constitutionally, unless somebody were to make and exception and change deployment paperwork. And yes, this does put the state over the Church in priority.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Ali
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 622 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 11:12 am |
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Annie wrote:
I understand about the legalism as I had trouble even getting into the Church because of "rules" which as it turned out were being misinterpreted and ignored.
As for the military bending to the rules of the Church, that it cannot do, constitutionally, unless somebody were to make and exception and change deployment paperwork. And yes, this does put the state over the Church in priority.
I'm sorry this has been hard for you, Annie. It hurts my heart when all the beauty of Christ's church is lost in the mistakes or misinterpretations of men. That just doesn't affect your sprituality, it affects us all.
{{Annie}} I hope things work out for the best for you and your marriage. All my best to you in this next phase of your life.
Ali
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Daffodil
Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 21st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 78 |
| First Name: | Daffodil | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | not attending church, New Age, Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 11:55 am |
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Ali wrote: Daffodil wrote:
Thank you, Gnyssa. However, I want Christ at the center of our wedding, as well as our marriage, so a church wedding it will be. If the Catholic Church refuses to accomodate a soldier during wartime, then we will go somewhere else. We do not need to receive communion during the wedding ceremony, so the Episcopal church will suffice, if that is our only alternative. I am willing to do counseling sessions by webcam, if needs be. We are willing to do counseling after we get married, as well, if there is no alternative. I have recently been experiencing doubts about the RC becauase of a rule that seems very much legalistic, considering we have no alternative. This is the lifestyle of a soldier.
It feels as if we are being punished because he is in the military.
Remember, God's law was written for us. Man's laws were not written for God. In other words, God has our best intentions in mind when following his rules. Men do not have God's best intentions at heart when writing their rules. God gave us his laws for a reason and to protect us for all time. Sometimes the two just cannot agree. If they did, then the military would be willing to bend, not expecting God to bend to them. See what I mean?
Please do not let a seemingly "legalistic" rule (to you) stop you from persuing Christ's true church. Are you sure there isn't something else causing doubts for you? (I mean this in a loving concerned way, not in a holier than thou way, or with attitude).
Ali
We have no choice in the matter. Regardless of what you believe about Church law and secular law, it is not possible for us to have the 6 months of counseling before we get married. If the priest had been open to counseling by webcam, then we could have done this--but he was not, and that time has passed.
____________________
My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior....
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Annie
Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 718 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 12:07 pm |
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Ali wrote: Annie wrote:
I understand about the legalism as I had trouble even getting into the Church because of "rules" which as it turned out were being misinterpreted and ignored.
As for the military bending to the rules of the Church, that it cannot do, constitutionally, unless somebody were to make and exception and change deployment paperwork. And yes, this does put the state over the Church in priority.
I'm sorry this has been hard for you, Annie. It hurts my heart when all the beauty of Christ's church is lost in the mistakes or misinterpretations of men. That just doesn't affect your sprituality, it affects us all.
{{Annie}} I hope things work out for the best for you and your marriage. All my best to you in this next phase of your life.
Ali
All's well that ends well. I ended up in the Church at a very inappropriate parish and moved to another better one nearby. If I had joined my first chioce parish first I would have always been wondering if I really belonged in my local parish. Hmmm... God does take care of us.
PS- Grateful to be not military and not married (except to my career of course). Though after 9/11 I had some thoughts...
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Daffodil
Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 21st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 78 |
| First Name: | Daffodil | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | not attending church, New Age, Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 12:45 pm |
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As for the military bending to the rules of the Church, that it cannot do, constitutionally, unless somebody were to make and exception and change deployment paperwork. And yes, this does put the state over the Church in priority. Even if he were to redeploy earlier than expected, they are only allowed 30 days leave on return. He is stationed in another country, and I live stateside. That gives us 30 days.
____________________
My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior....
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Annie
Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 718 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 12:55 pm |
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| I actually thought the webcam idea was great.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Daffodil
Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 21st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 78 |
| First Name: | Daffodil | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | not attending church, New Age, Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 12:59 pm |
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Are you sure there isn't something else causing doubts for you? (I mean this in a loving concerned way, not in a holier than thou way, or with attitude).
What really bothers me, is what if I had become Catholic this past Easter, as I seriously had considered doing? Then it would not be a matter of choosing another church for the wedding. It would the local priest forcing me to choose between my fiance, who is the father of my child, and the RCC. This would be equivalent to choosing between breaking up my family for a church, or turning away from a church to keep my family together. We may not be married, but the three of us are a family nonetheless.
I am glad I am still Episcopalian at this point. I need time to pray about this.
____________________
My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior....
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