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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 622 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jan 15th, 2008 09:38 am |
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Explain to me when it is proper to live as brother and sister IRT waiting for a declaration of nullity, and when it's not necessary.
I know each case is different, blah, blah, blah,  but give me some kind of blanket term.
FTR, it was never suggested to us to live as brother and sister.
TIA,
Ali
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DrDave
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 211 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jan 15th, 2008 10:16 am |
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This is an option for those in "irregular" marriages who wish to come/return to the sacraments without waiting for their marriages to be "regularised"
The thinking goes a little like this. If one has been married, then until one recieved a declaration of nullity one is not "free" to marry again. At this point there is no problem with recieving the sacraments.
If one remarries without a declaration of nullity of any and all previous marriages, then the possibility exiists that they are still married to a previous spouse (a valid sacramental marriage). If this is the case, then their current relationship is (probably unwittingly) a case of adultery.
Since the Church teaches that it is a sacralige to recieve the sacraments in an unworthy manner (and a really bad idea) the couple is faced with two options.
1. Cease living as man and wife, confess all known mortal sins (including the possibly adulterous relationship) and be free to recieve the sacraments straight away, then wait for the annulment process to finish, and if the result of the process is that all previous relationships are declared null, have their marriage convalidated, and resume living as man and wife
2. Wait for the annulment process to be completed, and if the result of the process is that all previous relationships are declared null, have their marriage convalidated, and be free to recieve the sacraments.
I would imagine that choice no 1 is not for everyone (I don't know if I could do it) as it would no doubt place stress on the relationship (even if both parties were in full accord on the matter).
Additionally there is the problem of scandal with option 1. In todays society, if a male and female who are not immediate family are residing together, people will assume certain things about their relationship. If the couple have been know to be "married" for the last 5 years then people are even more likely to assume such things. So if one or both members of this couple (at least one of whom is known to be previously married) start lining up for communion each Sunday, people are going to talk. The couple may have made a commitment to live as "brother and sister", and they may be living up to that commitment, but where scandal is concerned appearances are more important than reality.
I'm sure if I've misrepresented something Rick will clear it up.
Regards Doc
Edited to fix a really bad cut & paste
Last edited on Tue Jan 15th, 2008 10:18 am by DrDave
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Jan 15th, 2008 11:54 am |
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DrDave wrote: I'm sure if I've misrepresented something Rick will clear it up.
You got it just right, except that the second marriage is definitely not recognized regardless of the status of the first. Until the second marriage is declared null, the previously married party is not eligible to be married again because they're already married. Whether or not the new relationship is sinful is a different question, but it is definitely not a valid marriage and cannot be made valid in any way short of a convalidation. Even the process known as Radical Sanation cannot be applied to a marriage where one or both parties was previously married.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1227 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Nominal Methodist / evangelical non-denom / "Bapticostal" / Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 03:50 am |
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A first marriage is considered valid and legitimate by the Church until such time as a declaration of nullity is given (because of the doctrine that marriage between two baptized Christians is indissoluble). Therefore, it would follow that someone who was married before would have to abstain from sexual relations until it was determined that this was invalid, and never was a marriage.
I just read that teachings like this are accepted by about 20% of Catholics. Only about 30% accept Church teaching on contraception, too. So these are not popular teachings. Anything that limits sexual expression is always unpopular. I didn't make the rules. All I'm doing is presenting them to the best of my knowledge.
The Catechism alludes to these sorts of situations:
1650 Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.
Here is a Catholic site that expresses the same thing:
God will help! Miracles happen because the Lord wants us to receive full communion. [Many couples abstain from marital relations and live like brother and sister until the annulment comes through.] . . .
AND HERE'S THE REALLY IMPORTANT BOTTOM LINE:
While acknowledging that only the individual person can judge his or her own state of grace or sinfulness, the Church in its concern for the whole community must take a stand against visible conduct that's contrary to Christian morality. With genuine compassion for those to whom it says "no, you cannot do this", it must say "no" so that others are not confused by mixed messages. The responsibility is very grave indeed: The people as a whole Body must be protected from misunderstanding what is holy, even at the cost of hurting the feelings of a sinful or mistaken individual.
People say this is difficult or impossible to do. I don't think so. With God all things are possible. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." It can't be much more difficult than abstaining before marriage. It's not, I don't think, any more difficult to abstain as a married couple for a time than to do so as an engaged couple (which I consider probably the toughest thing I ever did in my life). People abstain during illness or prolonged periods of separation due to military commitments and so forth. So I don't buy this notion that it is impossible and that the Church is terrible for requiring (or suggesting, as the case may be) such a commitment.
That is no trifling matter, as it could possibly endanger one's eternal soul.
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