 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Christine Ann
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | An Hours' Drive From Cincinnati, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 113 |
| First Name: | Christine Ann | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Lutheran, Baptist, now Catholic. |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 02:03 am |
|
Hello,
I was approached tonight by a nephew who is a minister at a "Bible only" non-denominal Church about my decision to be Catholic. My husband will not be entering the Church with me, and is unhappy with my decision. My nephew said that I was violating the scripture which states that my husband is my "head" and I am to submit; that I am causing a rift in my marriage which should never happen: when married we become one. I told him that my husband (who was present) was following no faith at this time...he has been Baptist, but no longer attends Church. This has happened since I began to journey to the Catholic faith. At the time, he had no objection and allowed me to go to RCIA classes, but as I have become more and more immersed in my faith he is now unhappy about it.
I am to have this marriage convalidated tomorrow, so we will have officially been married by a priest with the Sacrament of Marriage. My husband has agreed to do this. I told my young nephew that I was praying that my husband would one day join me in the Catholic Church. (Spiritually, my husband has given me no direction, although he likes to think of himself as the "head".)
Is anyone familiar with this scripture? Is my husband's discontent truly a reason for me not to become Catholic? I need an answer pretty quickly as I wish to formally enter the Church on April 20th.
Christine Ann
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1714 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 03:17 am |
|
Christine Ann, it is manifest that your husband has given you no opposition in your journey to the Catholic faith. In fact, while he may have some last-minute misgivings, he has already consented to do it. Therefore, you are not disobeying your “head” by entering the Church. Your nephew is simply wrong.
And if your nephew gives you any further static, remind him that scripture also says that we must obey God rather than men.
David
|
|
|
Talithacumi
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 248 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 03:57 am |
|
Christine Ann,
Yeah, I know what you're going through. Was never married, myself, but very nearly... it was a very similar situation with my ex-boyfriend who I dated for several years that caused him to dump me in the end ; that is to say, I think he didn't appreciate that I refused to leave my [Catholic] faith in order to join him in his [Fundie Bible church]. Not saying your husband will dump you! (especially since he's agreed to have your marriage blessed in the Catholic Church - be thankful for that!). I only mean to say that I share - in some degree - your frustration and pain and know something of what you're going through. My ex-bf, too, felt that I wasn't really obeying God (though he never actually said so in those direct words) by allowing him to be the [potential] "head of the household." He felt that I should follow him into his church and that, as the woman, it was my duty to do so.
Anyway, as for the Scripture passage you mention, I imagine you're speaking of Ephesians 5, which contains the famous "Wives, be submissive to your husbands..." passage.
So many Christians like to use that passage, and - as is very common among Protestant men especially - and yes, some Catholic ones, too - they pull out one section of it and use it as a pretext in order to make its meaning a very convenient one for them. The passage goes like this:
" 21 Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body. 24 As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her 26 to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word 27 that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 So (also) husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body.
31 "For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church. 33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband.
If I may point out one or two things...
Those who use this passage sometimes use it almost as an excuse to browbeat their wives into doing what they want them to do: the "my way or the highway, baby" attitude. Well, that's not what this passage is about. Some people don't read it thoroughly nor do they understand that this passage, as much as it is about the sacrament of marriage, also refers to the relationship between Christ and His bride, the Church (v. 32).
See, they forget to read, in v. 21 - which starts out the whole "subordination clause" - that the husband and wife are to be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ. This means they are to put each other first before themselves, even. They are to give themselves completely to each other. Each has their own area of authority (for instance, practically speaking, can you imagine a man telling his wife who is breastfeeding their newborn baby just exactly what kind of a feeding schedule she should follow? No way! That's her department).
So, then St. Paul goes on to tell us how we are to be subordinate to one another. Wives, obey your husbands...Then! Husbands, love your wives even as Christ loved the Church and handed Himself over for her...
See, it's a two-way street. It's not just about wives being "submissive" (I like this translation that uses "subordinate." "Submissive," in today's culture, seems to me to have the connotation of a "whipped dog" kind of a submission, you know?)... Anyway, it's not just about how the wives should act. As you see above, I emboldened what it says about how husbands should act towards their wives. If anything, they have the harder task. They are to love their wives as Christ loved the Church. And how did Christ love the Church? He "handed Himself over for her" - even unto death. That's how much a husband is to love his wife. So next time someone gives you that "Wives should be submissive to their husbands" line, give them the rest of the story (as Paul Harvey used to say...) and let them chew on that!
There's more to say on this subject, but I'll let the others have their turn. 
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1212 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 05:06 am |
|
This is a similar situation to what I had. My husband is a somewhat lapsed baptist, and didn't like the idea of me becoming catholic. However, he didn't try to prevent me from converting, and I was quite firm that I had made up my mind to do it.
Doesn't it also say in scripture that each spouse is responsible for the other's spiritual welfare? By following the will of God and joining the church you are called to, you will be a better witness to your husband. I pray the Holy Spirit will speak to him, and soften his heart toward the church. Best wishes for your marriage convalidation!
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 06:16 am |
|
Dear Christine Ann,
You go with God. You have good loving husband, and how you and your husband work out your marriage is what matters, and certainly not a nephew! He might mean well, but it all comes down to you and God. And, as a man of the book and cloth, he ought to know better. This is pure chutzpah, and a few other choice terms I can think of. He's really pulling at both ends, as a cleric and family member.
Take courage from what St. Thomas More said about his honor of being the King's servant, but also the ultimate and prime necessity of being God's servant first. Inasmuch as it pained me to knowingly upset my family by returning to the Catholic Church, in the end it was my decision to make and as the leader of the house, it also meant taking a step that'd surely raise eyebrows and a few  but it was a move I couldn't avoid once I "woke up" and realized that I was Catholic more than anything else on earth, including husband, father, fellow Christian--of any church--and lastly fellow citizen. (After all, our kingdom isn't this round rock.)
I've heard this "man of the house" stuff and a lot of it sounds like "talking points" right out of a Promise Keeper's or "Iron-Sharpens-Iron" regional spinoff rally. How much of this is a form of religiously inspired conservative ideological movement or just a simple misinterpretation from an overly excited and eager preacher's notions of what it means to be a REAL MAN, not obviously a "girly man" -- I haven't the foggiest notion. Even the speakers at these rallies tell the boyos to cool this knuckledragging "submission" stuff if they want to keep their marriages.
Besides, hasn't your nephew looked at all the passages dealing with submission: It's a two way street. Always has been. Why does it seem that only backwards thinking protestant bible-thumpin' ministers and radical feminists seem to read St. Paul's writings about submission with the same narrow vision (albeit for entirely different ends in mind?) Simple: The power of manipulation by clever deception through the usage of half-truths.
Alot of this stuff sounds like the sort of rah rah stuff I'd hear at Amway rallies, etc. Oh boy ... the "no such thing as a two headed leader" comments, etc. Colorful metaphors aside, what your nephew needs to understand that if he wants the husband of any household to be the man and leader of the house, ala the "Bible Christian" modus operandi, well he ought to butt right out of another man's house and let him and his wife handle their matters as they see fit; not according to a Bible-toting kibbutzer, be he a close relative or cleric. In this case, you've got the double-headache of having one who's both! 
Your soul belongs first and foremost to God. Since the soul is immortal, and each of us has to answer to God for how we treated and used it, the ultimate decision becomes (ironically enough for all your reverend nephew's machinations) an individual matter for you to decide whether or not you become a Catholic. He might not appreciate his Protestant logic being turned back at him, but in essence what I've just mentioned above is necessary for him to keep in mind.
Hell, I'm the "head of my family," but when it comes to spiritual matters, I don't dare force the issue, and God help anyone who tries to force or manipulate my hand in such direction. I love my wife far too much to risk that kind dumb move. She knows the door's open and the invitation to cross the Tiber's taped on the door jamb. And if I try to push the issue, all I'll wind up with is a very sore hand! Deservedly so!
I've got to submit: got caught staying up too late writing, and I'm gonna catch it tomorrow. But I'll still be the head of the house no matter what. (Boy, am I gonna get it, and I know my ears will have to submit to the "music.")
Go with God and only God as the final gude for your conscience in this matter. That might shake your nephew minister to his boots but it won't kill his ministry, and certainly not him if you leave. He's just using scriptural blackmail. But if his ministry's that shaky, well, ... isn't that his problem and not yours?
I have all the confidence in the world you'll make the most sensible decision. You've worked too hard and come too far not to.
In Christ's love,
Steven
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
japhy
Member
| Joined: | Thu Apr 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Princeton, New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 179 |
| First Name: | Jeff / japhy | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | (Roman) Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 11:43 am |
|
In addition, Jesus admits -- in Luke 12:51ff -- that he has come to establish division, and that families will divide over him. It is a sad fact that not everyone in a family will accept Jesus Christ and His Church, and the Lord did not beat around the bush about it, but told it straight-up.
____________________
[Mary said,] "Do whatever he tells you." - John 2:5
|
|
|
Christine Ann
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | An Hours' Drive From Cincinnati, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 113 |
| First Name: | Christine Ann | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Lutheran, Baptist, now Catholic. |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 06:45 pm |
|
Thank you everyone for your advise and support. I thought I remembered a scripture which said we are to submit one to the other, but I didn't know where it was in the Bible. Thank you Cheri for giving me the scriptures related to this. I feel much better after reading.
My husband has agreed to convalidate our marriage this afternoon, although he still doesn't understand why he must do this since he's not Catholic. I think that Satan was just rearing his head through my nephew yesterday. Christ is THE head and I know in my heart of hearts that I am doing the right thing in joining His Church. My husband got up angry this morning and was going to stomp his way back to the Baptist Church, but I asked him to sit down and talk with me. He admitted he did not agree with everything the Baptist church proposes, but didn't think a church exists that is absolutely true. He feels that he let me down by not asserting him-self as my "head". I told him he hadn't let me down. He's also embarrassed to go back because everyone asks him about me.
He came up with the idea of going to our daughter's church...I'm not sure of its' denomination. He seemed relieved to have thought of this. I agreed that it was a good idea...that he should be going somewhere and he could start anew there. So he went. I went to Mass where Fr. Ted said pretty much what you all have advised....I will continue to pray for my husband's conversion to the Catholic Church. I would love to be with him in worship. But I'm not willing to give up a nearly won blessing to become Catholic because when you find truth, there is no turning back.
May God Bless each one of you.
Christine Ann
|
|
|
Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 109 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-demoninational, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 08:07 pm |
|
Just to add to the other excellent replies...the verse of Scripture that mentions that the head of a woman is her husband is in 1 Cor. 11:3, and is in the context of Saint Paul explaining how to have an orderly assembly while worshiping God. The chapter starts off with the admonition to "Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ." If husbands are to imitate Christ, do you think it is right for them to stand in the way of the spiritual growth of their wives -- to come between their wives and Christ? Yikes!
Also, This Rock magazine (Catholic) has an excellent article on "Spiritual Headship" available on line. Every Protestant convert would benefit from reading it, male and female alike. It's in the February 2005 issue.
After quoting the passages from Ephesians, 1 Peter and 1 Corinthians which point out the difference in gender roles, the author of the article says that although ideally men should be the spiritual leaders of their families, not all men are able to exercise leadership functions, including spiritual leadership. Discerning wives recognize in what areas their husbands are capable of exercising leadership and the areas in which they are incapable.
If a husband is pagan, he has no spiritual leadership capabilities, and if a lapsed Christian, impaired capabilities. The author states, "until such time as he becomes a Catholic, he is impeded from fully exercising spiritual leadership."
He also states that the wife must not violate her conscience in turning away from the Catholic faith and practice, for to do so is a mortal sin.
The author also points out that in any leadership context, no successful leader insists on his perogatives as a leader, which is what your nephew was trying to get your husband to do. Congratulations to your husband for resisting!
The article includes a list of 11 basic principles concerning men and women as seen in the eyes of God, beginning with their equal dignity, and the fact that Christ died for both sexes equally.
I encourage you to read the whole article, because it may clear up any other misconceptions that could arise later.
|
|
|
Christine Ann
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | An Hours' Drive From Cincinnati, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 113 |
| First Name: | Christine Ann | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Lutheran, Baptist, now Catholic. |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 12:45 am |
|
Dear Jane,
Thank you for your comments...they gave me some new insight into the confrontation with my nephew. I know he upset my husband...but some very good came out of it. This afternoon we received the Sacrament of Marriage! My husband was polite and cooperative and Fr. Ted gave a homily on the same scriptures in Ephesians! So my husband got to hear the truth about how a husband and wife are to relate to each other. Praise the Lord!
I am familiar with This Rock magazine as I subscribe to it. I will definitely look up the article you mentioned. Sounds like something I can really use....I'll not let this issue come up again without having a knowledgeable response. Please pray that Jesus will draw my husband to Himself and the Catholic Church. My nephew meant well, but he is misinformed. He's in the business of "saving" souls from "destruction in the Catholic Church". He and his wife also need our prayers. 
Christine Ann
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1714 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 12:50 am |
|
Congratulations, Christine Ann! I knew your husband would come through. I look forward to your formally becoming Catholic next week.
Yes, let us pray for your nephew, that the scales may fall from his eyes.
David
|
|
|
True Image
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 7th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 67 |
| First Name: | Anne | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Lifelong devout cradle Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 01:25 am |
|
Congratulations on having your marriage convalidated! I will keep you in my prayers as you continue your journey into the Church. (I will also pray for your DH & your nephew.)
Anne
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
|
Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 06:17 pm |
|
Dear Christine Ann,
I'm overjoyed and relieved to hear your good news. In the meantime, if you nephew would care to try and "save" my soul, I'd be most welcome for some entertainment, much like a cat playing with a mouse. Then ... let's just hope for his (clerical/spiritual sake) his "arguments" don't bore me too quickly!
Mrrrooooorrrrrrrr! I've learned alot from watching our five cats!
StevenLast edited on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 06:19 pm by Steven Barrett
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1227 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Nominal Methodist / evangelical non-denom / "Bapticostal" / Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 08:20 pm |
|
Speaking generally . . .
I would say that in matters of conscience so serious as the choice of what particular religious faith to pursue, that headship would not apply (even according to most "official" Protestant conceptions of headship), because one cannot deny the faith that they possess.
The husband has no right in the first place to forbid his wife from following her heartfelt beliefs and her conscience. Those things can't be prohibited! A husband can't somehow make his wife "unbelieve" what she believes. It's impossible. And if she believes something, then she has the freedom (under God and according to free exercise of religion, legally) to worship as she sees fit.
It's not as if a Catholic is doing something wrong . . . some Protestants may not like it, but they have no way of saying it is morally wrong for a person to believe in Catholicism.
Last edited on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 05:54 pm by Dave Armstrong
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
|
Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 10:54 pm |
|
Dave,
If even half of a half of the couples in this country who've fought their private 30 Yyears War between Catholicism and Protestantism had your advice and FOLLOWED IT, our divorce rate would take a nose-dive and a lot of lawyers would be doing other lines of work.
It cuts both ways, and this is especially crucial for us so-called "cradle Catholics" who come from equally rigid traditions when it comes to settling religious matters within the couple and family. I could no more on my own make my wife want to become Catholic anymore than she could want to make me more Protestant.
We are who we are and what we believe and bring to the altar and no matter how sincerely one partner or spouse wants for his or her other half, if it's to be, it will, if no, there's no way on earth all our wishing, persuading, arguing, elbow twisting, and worse, emotional/family spiritual form of blackmail's going to "do the trick."
Let's think back on that young man a month or so ago with the Southern Baptist girlfriend who wasn't going to budge. He could stand on a hundred copies of our Catechism with no less than the pope himself coaching him from behind and still get that gal to come around. She honestly believed it'd be best for the kids to be raised Protestant, come hell, high water, or who knows what. (I felt strongly for that young man. But he had to learn, as we all do, that there are some battles, however nobly fought, that we're just not going to win. And, it's best to learn how to pick our fights ahead of time. Of course, the same goes for the Protestant. Inasmuch as I'd love for the rest of my family to cross that river Tiber, it might not happen. But one or more might fall in love with and marry (OMG, a Catholic, get out them smellin' salts!) That being the case, I'd tell them flat out to get it settled right off the bat and from there on decide to stay united under one spiritual/church roof. But, if, should one of them find that original church they start out with, incompatible with their beliefs, the other partner has no business bossing the other one to stay, and I don't care if it's my own kids I have to tell that to.
I find it particularly galling in an ironic way to hear of Protestant ministers going off on submission jihads, telling wives to behave more like good Fatimas, when in fact their Protestant forebearers showed no submission to the very Vicar of Christ centuries ago. Had that been the case, so many of our present nightmares and heartaches wouldn't have ever come up.
Just like Islam, it seems like there remain so many pockets of extreme fundamentalist Protestant non-denom churches in this country which haven't grown or shown any interest in growing beyond a literalist misintrepretation of the Bible in the same way the hard-liners mangle their Koran in madrassas all over the Middleast. We Catholics take a lot of ribbing for our "outdated" stand on artificial contraception and abortion, etc., But when was the last time we heard a pope or bishop get behind a pulpit and browbeat the women in the pews into submission in ways that would bring back memories of the worst forms of medieval oppression? Hell, we only need to attend even some "mild sermons" given in this direction by many a self-styled preacher in many of our "contemporary" megachurches across the US.
I like to listen to Country & Western music, (along with Bach and Palestrina) but there are times when I can't honestly tell when some of the macho cro-magnon stuff of the jukeboxes take off and the thundering calls for biblical submission touch down. Makes one wonder why Kinky Friedman --who's Jewish--coined the line that best describes the fundamentalist perspective when it comes to biblical submission in all ways when he sang "... Get your biscuits in the oven and your buns in bed." (Well, he also wrote and recorded the outrageous "They don't make Jews like Jesus anymore," too.) But it doesn't take an "education" from a mail-order bible college to figure that Kinky's got a point and his politically incorrect and morally/socially uncomfortable lines sure shed a lot of needed light in this matter.
It's long overdue time for fundamentalist and non-denominational Protestant churches, in particular, to look at the calendars and let their women use their God-given freedom and right to determine where they'll be able to more freely worship Him. Don't hold your breaths, too long ladies. Just like all those poor serfs and workers "liberated" by the Bolsheviks in Russia some 80 years ago, the bully-bosses of "Bible Christianity" aren't in any hurry to practice what they say they believe, especially when it really comes to individual religious freedom, not even in this "Christian" land of the free and brave.
We know why the bully-bosses are afraid: They know where women in this country and elsewhere will find full freedom, respect and freedom.
Boy, do they know!
Last edited on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 10:55 pm by Steven Barrett
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
Christine Ann
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | An Hours' Drive From Cincinnati, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 113 |
| First Name: | Christine Ann | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Lutheran, Baptist, now Catholic. |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 15th, 2008 12:15 pm |
|
Steven,
My nephew's wife, holding her baby in her arms seemed rather serene, not at all interested in "liberation". She even tried to change the subject. I will say that my nephew is a soft-spoken young man, and I doubt that he browbeats his wife into submission. They are a sweet family, sincere in their beliefs...I just didn't believe I should have been approached concerning my faith in the Catholic Church and getting into a debate of sorts. My nephew loves me and was sincerely concerned about my salvation. I'll continue to pray for him. I gave him my e-mail address if he should have any questions or further comments. I would love to be able to kindly divert him from his path...that's really the Holy Spirits' job but perhaps I can plant some seeds!
I am overjoyed at joining the Church and can't help but wonder why God would draw me...but I was pursuing truth and where else can one navigate than to the Catholic Church after all?
In His love,
Christine Ann
|
|
|
Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 859 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 15th, 2008 12:24 pm |
|
Christine, I'm so happy for you!
God bless,
Becky
____________________
"If our charity is arrested by the difficulties encountered in dealing with our neighbor, . . . our relations with our brethren are not regulated by our love of God, but by our love of self." Divine Intimacy p. 781, Fr. Gabriel, O.C.D.
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 15th, 2008 02:11 pm |
|
Dear Christine Ann,
Uh oh! -- Sorry if I gave off the wrong impression about your nephew. That wasn't my intent. My beef is with the general nature of the whole line of thinking, especially insofar as it strikes directly against any true freedom of thoughts and action; essentially against God's gift of free will.
Of course when we get married, alot of that "free will" has be to be surrendered. Hmmm, how come, I commented good-naturedly when I got married that my wedding band started to "constrict ... it didn't do THAT in the jewelry store!"
And I'm delighted to know your nephew is blessed with a wonderful wife and great marriage. But I fully agree with you concerning where the one ought to draw a line as to telling people what they can and can't do concerning their right to worship God freely. IF WE, who've been accused of all sorts of crimes against freedom of worship are taking the sides of the Founding Fathers in this issue, it only behooves many of our more (should I say, stricter readers of the Bible) to get in line rather than pouring concrete then drawing lines that aren't supposed to ever be crossed because in doing so a husband's right to submission from his wife will be violated.
My strongest arguments in this issue are meant for the much bigger fellows working the madrassas of American style protestant fundamentalism and megachurchianity. (And what a racket that's been for those guys! -- not to mention a straightjacket for so many of their unsuspecting sheeple!) And my apologies if I went over the top. It's just an issue I get (too) worked up on sometimes!
In the meantime, I am delighted for the great news and pray that nothing but God's Blessings keep-a-coming towards you and your husband and family -- including your nephew. You certainly deserve them! 
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 15th, 2008 02:52 pm |
|
Dear Christine Ann,
Somewhere there should be a response posting from me on this. I just saw the lack of one and thought maybe I jumped to sending you a private message too quickly before hitting the "send" on the public post.
OOPS -- I just noticed it!
Mea Maxima Culpa for going over the top concerning your nephew individually. My concern is that you, or any one should not be browbeaten into staying in one denomination, church, or religious organization based on one's fervent interpretation or misinterpretation of the Bible. And I'm glad you made that reference to your nephew. No doubt outside of this he's a wonderful man, husband and father seeking only to do what he sees as God's will. But that's not saying I wouldn't also pass up an opportunity to debate him or any cleric on this issue; especially since I've seen how clerical misinterpretations of the "rules of engagement" (as I like to call them) concerning mixed marriages, have been accidently botched on both sides, leaving often a confused and hurting couple finding itself in a no-man's land between too long-warring factions. Just imagine if WWI conditions existed for as long as the 30 Years War! And, yes, sometimes that's what it's like for mixed couples that have remained married that long, yet grumbled and yet still made do with the "rules of engagement." I know this from personal experience!
Again, please accept my mea culpa, and of course, best wishes for many, many years ahead not only with your fine husband, but new Roman Home.
(Maybe you won't get that Medit warm winter weather in Ohio, but we provide it inother ways -- and besides my occ. hot air!)
God loves you and I, too! Last edited on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 02:53 pm by Steven Barrett
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:53 am |
|
Christine Ann wrote: My husband has agreed to convalidate our marriage this afternoon, although he still doesn't understand why he must do this since he's not Catholic.
Might I suggest that you tell him that it would make your marriage even more special if you renewed your vows in your church, and offer to do the same in his? There is no reason to get into the question of validity/invalidity, or whether the marriage is recognized by one church or another. zYou are expressing your love for one another before God and the Christian community, and you both should be willing to do that at any time in any place.
My wife and I (both cradle Catholics) have renewed our vows to each other several times, most recently at our 25th anniversary, and I hope we can do so again soon. There is no question for us of whether our marriage is legally or sacramentally valid, and yet we have chosen to repeat our vows in front of God's priest at least six times in our 35 years (36 this June). I want my bride to know I have no regrets and would marry her again in a moment! Frankly, I would seriously wonder about any spouse who would ever have a problem repeating his/her vows at any time in any setting.
I don't want to be crass here, but I do remember the first time I repeated my vows to my wife. Suffice it to say it was done privately at a very intimate moment; it was a memorable evening, and our daughter was born almost 9 months later. It was the closest I will be to heaven in this life.
How could any spouse who loves his/her partner ever miss an opportunity to repeat his/her vows?
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 720 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 02:17 am |
|
I would NEVER have thought that a green frog could EVER be that romantic!!! I'm impressed!!! 
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
|
Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 02:50 am |
|
Yeah, but I'm sure Kermie must've felt some hot flickering flames from below ten or 11 months later if he wasn't walkin' the floors or rocking the babe at 3 a.m. so his other half could get those zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's.
Last edited on Thu Apr 17th, 2008 02:52 am by Steven Barrett
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
|
|
| | |
